The Rapture?

[Douggg]

Don’t device yourself from the truth. You will suffer through great tribulation. As Jesus suffered to redeem us all.

Don’t take the Mark of the Beast and u will lose your mortal life. There is a reward for this suffering. Read Rev 20

Luke 21:
34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.

35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.

36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

 

[Matt Torres]

Luke 21:
34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.

35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.

36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

How do u suppose you will escape this? Through death of your mortal body? Or being taken in the air?

let’s keep this simple shall we.. does Jesus return before or after the tribulation? Please provide a verse to support ur claim

 

[Dave L]

You will find that the opinion and truth from Jesus is far greater then anything me or anyone else can offer you.

If you accept that the Word of God is the Bible then just read theses verse and tell me what do you think?

Matt 24:27-31, Mark 13:24-26, 1Th4:16-17, Rev 19:11-21 KJV

Not one scripture supports a pre-trib rapture. It is a false prophecy. At the end of the world, after the resurrection, the living saints are changed into the likeness of Christ and taken to heaven.

 

[Matt Torres]

Not one scripture supports a pre-trib rapture. It is a false prophecy. At the end of the world, after the resurrection, the living saints are changed into the likeness of Christ and taken to heaven.

I agree! The Bible supports what you have said. Pre tribulation rapture is a lie.

 

[Dave L]

I agree! The Bible supports what you have said. Pre tribulation rapture is a lie.

Rapture Top Dogs Admit no Proof Exists

 

[JulieB67]

(I'm currently undecided and need more input)

Thanks!

First, I would suggest Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21, as well as 1st and 2nd Thessalonians are good starting points to study the timing. But I will say in general, both OT and NT are always talking about one day - The day of the Lord/Lord's Day.

As for myself, I used to believe in a rapture (taught in church), but years later when I finally set out on my own, I found out there is no basis for it and it's not biblical. Every verse used to prove a rapture is talking about the the Lord's Day which is the second coming. They all refer to the last trump, the trump of God which is the 7th trump.

Paul states "all will be changed at last trump" He never says "some" are whisked away. Acts 3:21 says Jesus must stay in Heaven until the resitution of all things. Christ describes his coming as "immediately after" the tribulation.

A big kicker for me was Paul's teaching. He wrote 1st Thessalonians and everyone refers to 4:17 as the rapture. But he's describes this very event as the Day of the Lord in chapter 5, the subject hasn't changed. The Thessalonians themselves became confused about the timing so he had to write a second letter and says that "day shall not happen" until the falling away (apostasy) and the son of perdition sits on the throne proclaiming to be God. It's still the same day and he can't make it any clearer and is a second witness to Christ's teaching in the gospels. Both say beware, so it's very important to not be deceived on this subject or they wouldn't have given out the warnings.

 

[keras]

The Rapture will take place. The big argument in Christianty is over the timing of when.

Traditionally, there are three or four main camps of belief on the timing. Pre-trib (pre-70th week), Mid trib in the middle of the 70th week, Post trib at the end of the 70th week. Pre-wrath which is sometime in the second half of the 70th week.

No Douggg, the argument is; whether there is a 'rapture to heaven' at all.
The fact is; such a thing is never stated in the prophesies. Jesus refutes it six times.

The big joke is how the fools who believe in it, cannot decide when a 'rapture' could happen. Most settle on a position; pre, mid, post, or anytime; but are quite unable to prove their belief. That should be sufficient for any seeker of the truth to throw the whole theory into the waste paper bin, where it belongs.

 

[Douggg]

No Douggg, the argument is; whether there is a 'rapture to heaven' at all.

Since the Kingdom of Heaven is in heaven, and there is only one way a person can enter heaven - as believing on the Lord Jesus Christ. Then upon death or by rapture/resurrection - a Christian goes to heaven.

Unless, I suppose if a Christian refuses to believe that Christians go to heaven. And preaches against it.

 

[keras]

Since the Kingdom of Heaven is in heaven, and there is only one way a person can enter heaven - as believing on the Lord Jesus Christ. Then upon death or by rapture/resurrection - a Christian goes to heaven.

Unless, I suppose if a Christian refuses to believe that Christians go to heaven. And preaches against it.

You constantly demonstrate your lack of understanding of even some basics.
Heaven is a spiritual concept, in a dimension we cannot see or go to. However there have been instances when people have been able to view heaven, Ezekiel 1:1, Acts 7:56 and a few special individuals do get to go there.

But there is no general removal to heaven at any time and the Bible is quite clear; at death, we 'sleep' in the grave. To be raised for Judgment after the Millennium.
At the final end of all things, God will come to dwell with mankind on earth. Revelation 21:1-7 Then: heaven on earth, as it was in Adam's time.

 

[Douggg]

Heaven is a spiritual concept, in a dimension we cannot see or go to.

....not in our current bodies.

 

[keras]

....not in our current bodies.

Living humans stay in their mortal bodies. The change to immortality does not come to anyone, alive or dead; until after the Millennium, at the GWT Judgment.
That change is Promised, John 3:16, but is never realized before then.

 

[Douggg]

Living humans stay in their mortal bodies. The change to immortality does not come to anyone, alive or dead; until after the Millennium, at the GWT Judgment.
That change is Promised, John 3:16, but is never realized before then.

No, you are wrong. Death itself and Hell are cast into the lake of fire right at the time of the Greath White Throne Judgment, I can agree to that.


But them taken in rapture/resurrection, the mortal puts on immortality.

1Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

For them taking part....

54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

 

[Douggg]

A big kicker for me was Paul's teaching. He wrote 1st Thessalonians and everyone refers to 4:17 as the rapture. But he's describes this very event as the Day of the Lord in chapter 5, the subject hasn't changed.

The rapture in 1Thessalonians5 is in these verses...

1Thessalonians5:
9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

___________________________________________

The timing of the rapture is not necessarily pre-trb (pre-70th week is actually what pretribbers are implying), but it could be. But it has to happen before the beginning of the Day of the Lord - a like a thief in the night event.

The Day of the Lord begins when the Antichrist commits the act in 2Thessalonians2:3-4. Shown on my chart below for the Anytime rapture view.

 

[keras]

No, you are wrong. Death itself and Hell are cast into the lake of fire right at the time of the Greath White Throne Judgment, I can agree to that.


But them taken in rapture/resurrection, the mortal puts on immortality.

1Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

For them taking part....

54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

1 Corinthians 5:50-56 does NOT say when that prophecy happens.
You have no reason other your false beliefs, to think it will be fulfilled before the GWT Judgment.
It is [again] plain to a child, that until Death will still happen until it is cast into the LoF, after the Millennium.

Your unsupported opinion on this matter is a very serious deception and a perversion of the Bible truth.

 

[Douggg]

1 Corinthians 5:50-56 does NOT say when that prophecy happens.

No, because no-one knows exactly when, the month, the year, the day, that the rapture/resurrection takes place.

 

[BABerean2]

1 Corinthians 5:50-56 does NOT say when that prophecy happens.
You have no reason other your false beliefs, to think it will be fulfilled before the GWT Judgment.
It is [again] plain to a child, that until Death will still happen until it is cast into the LoF, after the Millennium.

Your unsupported opinion on this matter is a very serious deception and a perversion of the Bible truth.

Can you show us any mortals left alive on the planet at the end of the passage below?


Mat 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
Mat 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
Mat 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Mat 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Mat 25:35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
Mat 25:36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
Mat 25:37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
Mat 25:38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
Mat 25:39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
Mat 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Mat 25:42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
Mat 25:43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
Mat 25:44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
Mat 25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.


The time of the judgment of the dead, with reward for some, and destruction for others, is found in Revelation 11:18. This verse proves the Book of Revelation is not in chronological order.

.

 

[jgr]

Hello!

I'm interested in End Times

I've been looking into The Rapture lately

But I'd like to hear what other Christians think about it, as I know it is not universally accepted by Christians. I have two questions:

So... 1) in your opinion: is The Rapture biblical - or not biblical?

And: 2) in your opinion will The Rapture ever happen? Yes or No? - please, explain!

(I'm currently undecided and need more input)

Thanks!

There is no (pretribulation) rapture to be found within historical true Church orthodoxy.

It is a modernist dogma which did not appear until the 19th century.

The historical true Church was consistent and unanimous in its conviction that the true Church would suffer under (an) antichrist, of which there have been numerous, as Scripture declares (1 John 2:18).

History has demonstrated the historical true Church to be correct.

 

[keras]

Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Obviously this refers to the GWT Judgement, AFTER the Millennium.

No, because no-one knows exactly when, the month, the year, the day, that the rapture/resurrection takes place.

1 Corinthians 15:50-56 does, in fact inform us as to when that prophecy will happen. It is paralleled by Revelation 21:4, when Death will be no more. Only then, will those worthy receive immortality and be with God for Eternity.

Any ideas of a 'rapture, resurrection' before that time, is false teaching.

 

[Broken Fence]

Hello!

I'm interested in End Times

I've been looking into The Rapture lately

But I'd like to hear what other Christians think about it, as I know it is not universally accepted by Christians. I have two questions:

So... 1) in your opinion: is The Rapture biblical - or not biblical?

And: 2) in your opinion will The Rapture ever happen? Yes or No? - please, explain!

(I'm currently undecided and need more input)

Thanks!

Well for sure will happen the differences is before, during, or after the rise of the beast.

 

[Joyous Song]

How can that be possible? Reward before testing and Judgment? Not likely!

Again; the mention of 'rapture'- 'harpazo', here doesn't say it is to heaven, as many would like to think.
1 Thessalonians 4:17 is a description of what will happen when Jesus Returns. He will gather His people to Him, Matthew 24:30-31, initially in the clouds, then in Jerusalem. A horizontal transportation.
Humans never go to heaven, Jesus said so. John 3:13

I agree, rapture to me is when that last trumpet blows the dead will come to life and all will be taken to where they are called to be. Many will come to live in a much larger land of Israel along side Judah.