THE RICH MAN AND LAZARUS (Luke 16) IS NOT A PARABLE

[Saint Steven]

Now then, IF YOU are going to be a Universalist and claim the ALL in the Lake of Fire will be saved, even Satan himself, THEN YOU MUST BE PREPARED TO PROVE THAT FROM THE WORDS OF THE BIBLE.

I have more scripture to post, but somehow I don't think it will help you. Since everything posted so far has been rejected by you.

 

[Saint Steven]

You have fallen in love with an idea that removing the torments of hell from your conscious mind. You are welcome to do that BUT it does not in any way mean that those in the Lake of Fire will not be in torments forever and ever and ever and ever and ever!

So are you claiming that Jesus came to save us from God? - lol

 

[Saint Steven]

There is NO Scripture that says ALL MANKIND WILL BE REMOVED from the LOF.

Do you believe that all of humankind will end up in the LoF?

 

[Shrewd Manager]

Then by all means post those Scriptures which say...…..
"ALL people will be saved in the end of the world. ALL those in the Lake of Fire will be saved and leave the Lake of Fire and go to heaven even Satan and the demons".

But of course Major. Ready?

All nations whom You have made shall come and worship before You, O Lord, And they shall glorify Your name. (Psalms 86:9)

For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "BUT THE RIGHTEOUS man SHALL LIVE BY FAITH." (Romans 1:16-17)

"Who will not fear, O Lord, and glorify Your name? For You alone are holy; For ALL THE NATIONS WILL COME AND WORSHIP BEFORE YOU, FOR YOUR RIGHTEOUS ACTS HAVE BEEN REVEALED." (Revelation 15:4)

There's your rock-solid proof that all nations will believe and be saved, come worship and glorify God when His righteousness is finally revealed through the gospel, which gives life by faith.

Alleluja!

 

[Der Alte]

But of course Major. Ready?
All nations whom You have made shall come and worship before You, O Lord, And they shall glorify Your name. (Psalms 86:9)
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "BUT THE RIGHTEOUS man SHALL LIVE BY FAITH." (Romans 1:16-17)
"Who will not fear, O Lord, and glorify Your name? For You alone are holy; For ALL THE NATIONS WILL COME AND WORSHIP BEFORE YOU, FOR YOUR RIGHTEOUS ACTS HAVE BEEN REVEALED." (Revelation 15:4)
There's your rock-solid proof that all nations will believe and be saved, come worship and glorify God when His righteousness is finally revealed through the gospel, which gives life by faith.
Alleluja!

This is correct. "the righteous man shall live by faith" and "all nations will come and worship." But there are no righteous men living by faith in the the grave. And there are no nations coming to God in the grave.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

This is correct. "the righteous man shall live by faith" and "all nations will come and worship." But there are no righteous men living by faith in the the grave. And there are no nations coming to God in the grave.

Glad to see you're willing to now recognise that at least ALL the nations who are not in the grave at the end time will come worship.

Do you say that those in the grave are not raised for the GWT judgment?

And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds. (Rev 20:13)

It appears Jesus raises the dead from 'the sea' (ie the multitudes and from Hades (ie the grave, sheol) in order to judge them.

 

[Der Alte]

Glad to see you're willing to now recognise that at least ALL the nations who are not in the grave at the end time will come worship.
Do you say that those in the grave are not raised for the GWT judgment?
And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds. (Rev 20:13)
It appears Jesus raises the dead from 'the sea' (ie the multitudes and from Hades (ie the grave, sheol) in order to judge them.

Still trying to twist scripture to make it say what you want it to. There are no, zero, none nations in the grave and they are not nations when they are resurrected. Still doesn't say what you want it to.

Romans 1:24
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Romans 1:26
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
Romans 1:28
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Matthew 7:22-23
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Psalms 81:11-12
11 But my people would not hearken to my voice; and Israel would none of me.
12 So I gave them up unto their own hearts' lust: and they walked in their own counsels.
Revelation 22:11
11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
​

 

[Major1]

Do you believe that all of humankind will end up in the LoF?

No I do not because the Bible says so. But the question is. according to the Universals theology, ALL, EVERYONE including Satan will be saved in the end.

THAT is what you have said you believe. Now again...…….where in the Bible does it say that EVERYONE IN THE END OF THE AGE WILL BE SAVED EVEN THOSE IN THE LAKE OF FIRE TODAY?????

I keep asking and no one answers. I wonder why???

 

[Major1]

But of course Major. Ready?

All nations whom You have made shall come and worship before You, O Lord, And they shall glorify Your name. (Psalms 86:9)

For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "BUT THE RIGHTEOUS man SHALL LIVE BY FAITH." (Romans 1:16-17)

"Who will not fear, O Lord, and glorify Your name? For You alone are holy; For ALL THE NATIONS WILL COME AND WORSHIP BEFORE YOU, FOR YOUR RIGHTEOUS ACTS HAVE BEEN REVEALED." (Revelation 15:4)

There's your rock-solid proof that all nations will believe and be saved, come worship and glorify God when His righteousness is finally revealed through the gospel, which gives life by faith.

Alleluja!

NOPE.....Psalms 86:9 does not contain the words or the idea that...…….
"EVERYONE will be saved and removed from the Lake of Fire", does it my brother?????

That Scripture is CONTEXTUALLY pointing to the time AFTER Armageddon when all the people who live through the wrath of God will at that time come to Jerusalem to worship.

Rev. 21:24 speaks directly to this as we see...….
"And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it."


NOPE....Romans 1:16-17 does not contain the words or the idea that...…….

"EVERYONE will be saved and removed from the Lake of Fire", does it my brother?????

Those words JUSR ARE NOT THERE !!!!

The CONTEXTUAL teaching of Romans 1:16-17 HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE SALVATION OF THOSE IN THE LAKE OF FIRE.

Paul writes with full knowledge that the church in Rome is facing persecution and suffering under Roman oppression. Many of the believers there are experiencing humiliation and shame because of their faith in Christ.
What is the PURPOSE of his letter?????

Paul wants them to be assured that the worldly power of Rome cannot hold a candle to the mighty power of God—the gospel of Jesus Christ. That gospel is God’s limitless power directed toward the salvation of men and women. For every person who believes, while alive, whether Jew or Gentile, man or woman, black or white, the gospel effectively becomes the saving power of God.

ALL FALSE teachings are guilty of using biblical words with non-biblical definitions. This is absolutely necessary among them in order to maintain some sort of internal consistency of theology. So too, with many universalists. Hell can mean non-existence, after-life consciousness, or this present life on earth.

NOPE! Rev. 15:4 does not contain the words or the idea that...…….
"EVERYONE will be saved and removed from the Lake of Fire", does it my brother?????

It actually says...….
"Who will not fear, O Lord, and glorify Your name? For You alone are holy; For ALL THE NATIONS WILL COME AND WORSHIP BEFORE YOU, FOR YOUR RIGHTEOUS ACTS HAVE BEEN REVEALED."

OF course they will at that time. They will be the ones who chose and accepted Christ and they will worship him but there is not one single word that say those people are in the Lake of Fire now does it?????

That Scripture is referring to those living in the Millennial time NOT THE LACK OF FIRE.

Why in the world did you take the time to post this as NONE of them have anything to do with the Lake of Fire.

​

 

[Major1]

Do you believe that all of humankind will end up in the LoF?

ALL...….NO!

Most, Yes.

1st of all, I believe the words of Jesus when HE says not everyone will go to heaven.

Matthew 7:13-14.....
"Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few."

Matthew 7:21...……….
"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."

Now do you believe Jesus Christ or the doctrines of men my friend or better asked is, when did you start to question the Word of God??

 

[Major1]

So are you claiming that Jesus came to save us from God? - lol

Steve, after all of the back and forths and debates and words the best you can now is to say...……...…

"so are you saying that Jesus came to save us from God?

Sorry brother but that does not require me to respond to.

 

[Major1]

I have more scripture to post, but somehow I don't think it will help you. Since everything posted so far has been rejected by you.

NO SIR you do not. IF you did you would have posted them a long, long time ago.

The fact is that YOU and ME and everyone else knows that there are NO Scriptures that support anyone being saved when cast into the lake of Fire and
then being removed.

Even your partner @FineLinen has already said what I and everyone else who read the Bible know.....
"THERE ARE NO BIBLE SCRIPTURES WHICH SUPPORT THE UNIVERSALISTS THEOLOGY!!!! HE SAYS THAT THERE WILL BE NO SALVATION FROM ANYONE WHO IS CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE".

 

[Major1]

Well, it should fit into your theology as well.

No one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit. (1 Cor.12:3)
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” you will be saved. (Rom.10:9)
The reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. (Rom.14:9)

Are you saying this is not a part of your theology?

Philippians 2:10-11
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

1 Corinthians 12:3
Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says,
“Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

Romans 14:9
For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that
he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

Romans 10:9
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart
that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Note on "acknowledge" in Philippians 2:11 from Strong's Concordance
S1843 eksomologéō (from 1537 /ek, "wholly out from," intensifying 3670 /homologéō, "say the same thing about") – properly, fully agree and to acknowledge that agreement openly (whole-heartedly); hence, to confess ("openly declare"), without reservation (no holding back).

2 Timothy 4:3
"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires,"
Source: 14 Bible verses about Manipulation

 

[Major1]

Allow me to tell you something you may not like or even want to think about. - lol
All of creation will be restored. The demons are part of all creation. Even Satan.

All you have to do Steve is to post those Scriptures that say...…….
"The demons are part of all creation. Even Satan."

It is past time to stop manipulating Scriptures to fit what YOU want them to say and actually post the Scriptures that validate what you are posting.

There is not ONE SINGLE Scripture that says what you just said.

Now I am going to tell you something that you will not like.

I cannot help but notice that the secular world teaches tolerance, a be-nice philosophy, and the belief that all will make it to heaven. Second chance redemption and a theology that teaches you'll make it to heaven no matter what is comfortable to the world's ears. Too bad the universalists agree with the world in this.

 

[Major1]

But you understanding of them doesn't fit with Scripture. God said, the soul that sins shall die. He didn't say the soul that sins shall be tormented in fire for eternity.

Butch.....I just do not have the patience or time to go through such an elementary teaching for you on this.

The body goes to the grave for ALL those who die.

The spirt goes to heaven for believers.
The spirit goes to Torments/Hell soon to be Lake of Fire for unbelievers.

The 1st Resurrection places the bodies and spirits together for believers and they receive a glorified body and will be in heaven.

The 2nd Resurrection does the same thing for all unbelievers and they will be cast into the lake of fire forever but not in a glorified body.

Now if you can not accept this, they I suggest that YOU do the study from the Bible just like I have done.

 

[Major1]

But you understanding of them doesn't fit with Scripture. God said, the soul that sins shall die. He didn't say the soul that sins shall be tormented in fire for eternity.

LOL!!!!!!!!

2 TIMOTHY 2:15 ………..
"Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."

 

[Saint Steven]

No I do not because the Bible says so. But the question is. according to the Universals theology, ALL, EVERYONE including Satan will be saved in the end.

THAT is what you have said you believe. Now again...…….where in the Bible does it say that EVERYONE IN THE END OF THE AGE WILL BE SAVED EVEN THOSE IN THE LAKE OF FIRE TODAY?????

I keep asking and no one answers. I wonder why???

So, you believe there are people in the LoF today? That's not in the Bible, is it?

I know you are in love with your own question, but how do you explain the outcome?
You don't seem to be denying that. I wonder why???

 

[Saint Steven]

All you have to do Steve is to post those Scriptures that say...…….
"The demons are part of all creation. Even Satan."

Wow. Did you really write that?
If the angels are not part of God's creation, what are they?

 

[Saint Steven]

ALL...….NO!

Most, Yes.

What percentage is a fair estimate of those who will burn forever?
A conservative estimate is fine.

Saint Steven said: ↑
Do you believe that all of humankind will end up in the LoF?

 

[Saint Steven]

Steve, after all of the back and forths and debates and words the best you can now is to say...……...…

"so are you saying that Jesus came to save us from God?

Sorry brother but that does not require me to respond to.

Seriously?

That is the theology of Damnationism. That Jesus came to save us from God.
No wonder you refuse to answer.