Trump says, Go Back To Church -- POLL

Are you ready to reopen for Church services?

  • yes

    Votes: 6 24.0%
  • No

    Votes: 11 44.0%
  • Each Church should be able to decide on their own

    Votes: 8 32.0%

  • Total voters
    25

Hazelelponi

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No one is being forced to Church.
Many if not all high risk will not attend.

We practice religious freedom.

M

I am high risk but I believe 100% that God will either cover me or its just my time to die... either way I'll be doing it, I'll be doing what is right by Him according to my understanding.

I think people may find it's the young and healthy who are most afraid of assembly and worship.
 
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Mountainmanbob

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I am high risk but I believe 100% that God will either cover me or its just my time to die... either way I'll be doing it, I'll be doing what is right by Him according to my understanding.

I think people may find it's the young and healthy who are most afraid of assembly and worship.

Some may call you silly or maybe even worse but, I agree with you and I'm also in a high risk group.

I won't be hugging or kissing at Church. Actually, we have had some small meetings and all have kept their safe distance.

If I can go to Walmart
don't tell me that I can't go to Church.

We don't live in China or Russia
not yet anyway.

M
 
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Paidiske

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No one is being forced to Church.
Many if not all high risk will not attend.

We practice religious freedom.

M

Hmm. If churches decide to re-open, there's not a lot of choice there for their staff. I know one point of discussion here was whether it was right to expect church staff to risk their health, when they had little choice about it. (Similar to some of the discussions about safety for teachers).

Maybe it's freedom for some, at the expense of others?
 
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charsan

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Trump deems churches, places of worship 'essential' in COVID reopening

WASHINGTON – President Donald Trump on Friday called on local officials to reopen churches and other places of worship beginning this weekend, but aides offered conflicting messages about how far the administration will go to ensure parishioners are allowed back in the pews.

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Note -- voting in this poll should be only for the ones who do attend Church regularly.
M

I voted and we have been going for a bit now. If I didn't have that I would have went off the edge mentally, I was very close to it and I am still not doing good. The evil powers had no right to take God away from us ever and I will die on that hill always
 
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CaspianSails

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My pastor can open church but everyone would be required to wear masks. He is waiting for this restriction to be lifted before services are opened up. Singing in particular will bring out virus particles, if one has an active case. Many are asymptomatic, so it seems unlikely that services will be fully normal until there is a vaccine. Sorry, but I will only attend online. I suppose if i were a pastor, I would limit attendance at this time to 1/10th of normal. Have 3 services a week rotating your congregation and you would have everyone in church about every 3 weeks. I might consider too having singing outside if weather permits, unmasked, and then coming in the church for the sermon/communion/giving.


Every position on this seems valid. A lot depends on who you are, your age, and your risk tolerance. While I am ready to start attending with others again I am not certain I would want to sit the entire time with a mask or without singing. I think I may as well watch the pastor online. Then there is the question of fellowship. What will that look like?
 
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CaspianSails

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If it is closed bills should be less plus with all the greatly increased cleaning and isolating and social distancing equipment that has to be paid for. Having to purchase masks for employees and for members that don't have any plus sanitizer and plastic screens and distancing posters. A large sanctuary that is closed you can turn the climate controls to temperatures that are fine for maintaining if it isn't being used but when it opens you use climate control to keep it from getting too hot this time of year. It is said each adult produces the heat equivalent to a 100 watt incandescent bulb and 1000 people require 100,000 bulbs worth of heat to be removed plus the building opening/closing to let people in/out and keeping it at a comfortable temp costs money. On top of this you have lighting and sound systems and tv monitors adding heat and taking power.


It is a bit more complicated that that. In large buildings you need to maintain certain temperatures during the year to avoid things growing in the system. I have seen people become sick when churches, who really don't know any better, have decided to save money by turning systems way back or even off between service days or even overnight. The result is not good and then requires even more expensive cleaning. So yes, you may be able to modify the temperature some but you need to stay in a range that prevents mold, mildew, and other microbes from growing in large systems.
 
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CaspianSails

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Hmm. If churches decide to re-open, there's not a lot of choice there for their staff. I know one point of discussion here was whether it was right to expect church staff to risk their health, when they had little choice about it. (Similar to some of the discussions about safety for teachers).

Maybe it's freedom for some, at the expense of others?


As far as I am concerned, if staff chose not to attend I would not hold it against them. However, I may be in the minority.
 
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Jonathan Walkerin

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The Barbarian

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My church had outdoor services like a drive in theater that the city allowed. I think many churches won't want to have "normal" services as they have to adhere to the policies of state and local governments just like other businesses do. Here I think they are calculating the square footage of a business and dividing it by 36 and using that number for occupancy or taking the fire marshals max occupancy figure and using a percentage of that for the figure. They have someone that keeps track of in/out so they have a running figure of how many people are inside and some have distancing marks for those outside waiting too.
I think that if distancing rules are required of churches still then they may decide not to have services at all due to the limited amount of people that can attend would cause a possible mess either they would need to have a lot more smaller services perhaps shorter in length so everyone that wants to attend can or postpone it or maybe even set up appointments so people don't get locked out when they hit their Covid occupancy limits.
I considered this and I see no reason for keeping churches closed if they are given the same rules to abide by that other businesses that are allowed to be open have.
In a church that has let's say 1000 people in a normal service are required by the rules set to only allow 150 to 200 people in for a service that leaves 800 or more that could be stuck waiting outside which would be a nightmare for managing in traffic in/out and standing in lines. It would take 4-5 times as many services if people all wanted to go but I figure that would probably not be quite back to normal even 2-3 times the limits may not be manageable.

For smaller churches the fear of getting the virus along with people that are good with watching it online for the time being may allow them to follow the local protocols as good as other places allowed to be open. I think the bigger issue would be profitability, that is if a service has too few people in it would the cost of having a service vs the donations that are picked up during the service don't balance out a more poor church may not be able to afford to have churches that severely limit participants due to distancing guidelines vs size of building.
One could parallel this thinking to having a store that is profitable with having an average of 100 people in the store average at a time during the day now being told they can only have 20 people in it at a time is no longer able to afford to make a profit and concludes that they cannot open. Churches that have 1000 seats if required to distance people even with masks or whatever you may lose 2/3 of your seats and have to figure out how to mark off seats to help enforce distancing guidelines which also can be an expense and big hassle.
Now if there is no distancing issues only masking issues then perhaps a max occupancy rating would allow many businesses and churches to operate at levels that at least break even on the expenses they have but I don't think there is anywhere that is not requiring distancing still in the US.

There is one thing that could work that is to used closed stadiums and other sports venue areas for church services they could address distancing rules that would limit capacity to even 10% on the majority of church services easily.

Yes. Your idea is a good one. There's a large NASCAR track in my area, with huge open infield, gigantic display screen, and lots of parking. My local school district found a safe way to use all those facilities to have a real graduation, visible to parents and friends, without endangering anyone. Kudos to them.
 
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Sophrosyne

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Yes. Your idea is a good one. There's a large NASCAR track in my area, with huge open infield, gigantic display screen, and lots of parking. My local school district found a safe way to use all those facilities to have a real graduation, visible to parents and friends, without endangering anyone. Kudos to them.
Plenty of football stadiums for smaller churches to use the only drawback is weather around here tends to spoil outdoor activities this time of year. Maybe drive in theaters will start making a lot of money problem is I figure the big films won't bother with just having them as screens and low capacity theaters due to distancing requirements.
 
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The Barbarian

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Plenty of football stadiums for smaller churches to use the only drawback is weather around here tends to spoil outdoor activities this time of year. Maybe drive in theaters will start making a lot of money problem is I figure the big films won't bother with just having them as screens and low capacity theaters due to distancing requirements.

My thought is that for some of these kids, this is the only graduation that they'll have. And their accomplishments need to be recognized. So school administrators need to be creative.
 
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Sistrin

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Maybe it's freedom for some, at the expense of others?

Because church staff members are all too stupid to, what, exactly? Do their jobs while maintaining a healthy protocol?

The image you are attempting to create is a false narrative. Reopening the churches is not an expression of one group of people exploiting another. You should know this.
 
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jgarden

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Trump deems churches, places of worship 'essential' in COVID reopening

WASHINGTON – President Donald Trump on Friday called on local officials to reopen churches and other places of worship beginning this weekend, but aides offered conflicting messages about how far the administration will go to ensure parishioners are allowed back in the pews.

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

Note -- voting in this poll should be only for the ones who do attend Church regularly.
M
Trump says, Go Back To Church -- POLL
At the very least one would have expected that the President would have followed his own advice and attended a Church service today, but he made his choice that golf takes precedence!

The longer conservative Christians choose to support this President, the more it erodes their ability to convince the world that their message hasn't been compromised!
 
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Sistrin

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Sophrosyne

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My thought is that for some of these kids, this is the only graduation that they'll have. And their accomplishments need to be recognized. So school administrators need to be creative.
They are saying graduation ceremonies may be in July here but it depends on how this virus thing goes around here they say everything is dropping but we are opening up more so that trend may slow or temporarily increase perhaps. One school had a drive through graduation where they drove down a main street and everyone had their cars parked and cheered them on from there. The things that I think could be hard is some like the prom and homecoming for sports the last season (seniors) plus athletes and honor students a short school year could affect scholarships and such making it harder for colleges that may be a limited opening in the Fall or Spring semesters to decide on. Unless we get a hold of this thing and everything related could be a rough 2020-2022 I figure.
 
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Paidiske

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Because church staff members are all too stupid to, what, exactly? Do their jobs while maintaining a healthy protocol?

I don't believe that it is possible to gather entirely safely. A "healthy protocol" will reduce risk, but not eliminate it. That has nothing to do with stupidity, and everything to do with the reality of how this virus spreads.

Reopening the churches is not an expression of one group of people exploiting another. You should know this.

It's a consideration. I know it was part of the discussion both in my parish and in my diocese around when to suspend services.
 
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Sistrin

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I don't believe that it is possible to gather entirely safely.

It wasn't possible to gather entirely safely prior to Covid 19. You are waffling. The sense I gather from reading your post is it will immediately become possible to gather safely if President Trump loses the election this November.

A "healthy protocol" will reduce risk, but not eliminate it.

Looking in both directions prior to crossing the street does not eliminate the risk of getting hit by a car. How long do you really want to live inside this bubble of false security?

Oh, right, November...

That has nothing to do with stupidity, and everything to do with the reality of how this virus spreads.

Spare me. Most people wailing about how the virus spreads don't even know the difference between a virus and a bacteria. If you are using a perceived risk to Church staff as an excuse to keep the churches closed then your actual goal is to keep the churches closed as opposed to protecting anyone.

It's a consideration. I know it was part of the discussion both in my parish and in my diocese around when to suspend services.

Ah, the appeal to authority. That always calms everything right down.
 
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jgarden

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The politicians and preachers who have ignored the pandemic, putting the lives of their followers at risk, have much to answer for - especially if they do it in the name of God!
 
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Paidiske

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It wasn't possible to gather entirely safely prior to Covid 19. You are waffling. The sense I gather from reading your post is it will immediately become possible to gather safely if President Trump loses the election this November.

I'm not even in America. So in that sense, for me, American politics is irrelevant to a discussion of the safety of re-starting church services.

Spare me. Most people wailing about how the virus spreads don't even know the difference between a virus and a bacteria.

However, I do know the difference, and I have a degree in immunology with a minor in microbiology. I'm not speaking from total ignorance.

If you are using a perceived risk to Church staff as an excuse to keep the churches closed then your actual goal is to keep the churches closed as opposed to protecting anyone.

No, my goal at this point is not to keep the churches closed. But I did want to point out that when churches begin services again, not everyone is equally free to choose their preferred level of risk at that point.
 
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The Barbarian

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I'm not even in America. So in that sense, for me, American politics is irrelevant to a discussion of the safety of re-starting church services.

For a certain cohort of people in the U.S., everything is about politics.
 
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