KJV Bible verses that may make you scratch your head in wonder

GreekOrthodox

Psalti Chrysostom
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Every Christian should probably be forced to attend one Greek service, just to underline the fact that you exist. :)

And loving it.

I know I've mentioned this before but I gave a church tour talking about the Christian faith and went to Q&A. "Do you all still worship Zeus?", "What makes you different from other Protestants?" Sigh, There are two kinds of people - Greeks, and everyone else who wish they was Greek. (Although to be honest, I'm a convert, but after 18 years, I figure I can claim some kind of citizenship status :p )

I've been listening to a "A History of Philosophy Without Any Gaps" and every so often, I think that swinging around in the trees would be a lot more fun.
 
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GreekOrthodox

Psalti Chrysostom
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Everything OK with you friend?
I see your logic. I really do, but those gentlemen wouldn't have used the Webster. The last I remember Grandpa having was a Thompson. My dad owned a Nelson. Both as you know are KJV.

Dear Parson, yes, Im fine thanks. I support a communications network for a 500 bed hospital. We only have a few in-patient cases of Covid and I'm restricted in going out. Just makes for a long day being stuck in my office alone for 8 hours a day. I'm an extrovert and feel like this
 
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Radagast

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I see your logic. I really do, but those gentlemen wouldn't have used the Webster. The last I remember Grandpa having was a Thompson. My dad owned a Nelson. Both as you know are KJV.

I see your point. I still have a KJV Thompson myself.

But when it comes to a contest between the Providence of God and your brain, I'm still betting on the the Providence of God.
 
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Radagast

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GreekOrthodox

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I thought that was "Scots, and everyone else who wishes they were Scots"?

What if I dye my hair black?

Ethnix Comedy on Facebook Watch

Well there are blond Greeks out there, just not that many. And since Im part Scot, well, that just goes without saying!
And the video is pretty much us at the end of Lent! How do we celebrate the end of fasting of Lent? With stricter fasting during Holy Week!
 
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Radagast

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And the video is pretty much us at the end of Lent! How do we celebrate the end of fasting of Lent?

Well, the video is Australian Greek comedy by Australian Greeks for Australian Greeks.

If you didn't catch it, "Skip" is (rather old) Immigrant-Australian slang for "not ethnic" (from here).
 
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The Parson

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I know I've mentioned this before but I gave a church tour talking about the Christian faith and went to Q&A. "Do you all still worship Zeus?", "What makes you different from other Protestants?" Sigh, There are two kinds of people - Greeks, and everyone else who wish they was Greek. (Although to be honest, I'm a convert, but after 18 years, I figure I can claim some kind of citizenship status :p )

I've been listening to a "A History of Philosophy Without Any Gaps" and every so often, I think that swinging around in the trees would be a lot more fun.
The greek text your church uses, is it the 4th century Alexandrian texts?

So glad to hear that it isn't you that needed the hospitalization by the way!!!

I see your point. I still have a KJV Thompson myself.

But when it comes to a contest between the Providence of God and your brain, I'm still betting on the the Providence of God.
Look, if I were in your shoes listening to what I'm telling you, I would defiantly be of the same mind.
 
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GreekOrthodox

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The greek text your church uses, is it the 4th century Alexandrian texts?

So glad to hear that it isn't you that needed the hospitalization by the way!!!

We use a Byzantine majority text. Again, we've been keeping our own texts in Koine Greek since that is the root of our liturgical language. We dont even use modern Greek in our services.
 
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The Parson

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We use a Byzantine majority text. Again, we've been keeping our own texts in Koine Greek since that is the root of our liturgical language. We dont even use modern Greek in our services.
I figured as much and am pleased it's not the Alexandrian. IMHO they (the Alexandrian) are as corrupt as they come. And honestly, there is nothing I've mentioned so far that even slightly gives you any light into what I'm asserting? Do you think maybe if I posted more of the scripture that I believe has changed, you would consider it as kindly as you already have? My bringing up this subject hasn't gotten very many kind responses to date.

Gosh, I feel like one of those Mormon elders knocking on doors. I never let them in. Even though I'll talk to them on the porch. Get my meaning?
 
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GreekOrthodox

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I figured as much and am pleased it's not the Alexandrian. IMHO they (the Alexandrian) are as corrupt as they come. And honestly, there is nothing I've mentioned so far that even slightly gives you any light into what I'm asserting? Do you think maybe if I posted more of the scripture that I believe has changed, you would consider it as kindly as you already have? My bringing up this subject hasn't gotten very many kind responses to date.

Gosh, I feel like one of those Mormon elders knocking on doors. I never let them in. Even though I'll talk to them on the porch. Get my meaning?

Honestly, since I dont really have a dog in the text fight, it is not a issue to me. We have our own textual history and the western churches are dependent on our native texts, not the other way around.

The main reason why I cant stand KJVO is that it pushes a very poor theological point of that in order to be saved, you have to know 17th century English. That's as stupid as me saying that in order to be saved you have to know koine Greek. It is a decent translation and IMHO one of the most beautiful. However, it is dated and can be misread by someone who isnt familiar with older English. Even koine Greek has its problems as the language has evolved. For example, the dative case, that is in English, the direct object of a sentence, disappears over the centuries and no longer exists in modern Greek. If you studied only modern Greek, you would have a difficult time trying to parse out the Scriptures.

Are their poor translations and copies? Of course there are. Heck I've even had muddle my way through some horrible translations of liturgical texts or misprintings. We have one printing of a service that in one instance of the Lord's prayer it ends with "...deliver us for evil." This was corrected in later editions, but as I find copies of this particular printing, I correct the prayer. Do I consider it a corrupt and satanic copy? No, just someone forgot to read through it one last time. Is every copy of the KJV a good one? Look up the 1631 reprint of the KJV known as "The Wicked Bible"
 
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Radagast

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Honestly, since I dont really have a dog in the text fight, it is not a issue to me. We have our own textual history and the western churches are dependent on our native texts, not the other way around.

And it's worth pointing out that this unbroken tradition of passing on the koine Greek text commands respect from all modern Evangelical scholars.

The standard scholarly Greek New Testament indicates all the places where Byzantine manuscripts differ from other texts. Even those who prefer the reading of, say, the Codex Sinaiticus, will take note of what the Byzantine manuscripts say. Where the differences are significant, Bible translations will contain a footnote. Individual pastors have been known to base their sermon on the Byzantine reading.
 
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prodromos

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And it's worth pointing out that this unbroken tradition of passing on the koine Greek text commands respect from all modern Evangelical scholars.

The standard scholarly Greek New Testament indicates all the places where Byzantine manuscripts differ from other texts. Even those who prefer the reading of, say, the Codex Sinaiticus, will take note of what the Byzantine manuscripts say. Where the differences are significant, Bible translations will contain a footnote. Individual pastors have been known to base their sermon on the Byzantine reading.
One of the issues I have with textual criticism with regards to the Biblical text is the implied assumption that older is better, rather than considering that a particular old manuscript survived precisely because no one was using it, because it was recognised back then that there was something wrong with it. There aren't any surviving early manuscripts representing the Byzantine texts for the simple reason they were in constant use and eventually fell apart.
 
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Radagast

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One of the issues I have with textual criticism with regards to the Biblical text

Well, a modern "critical" text will show all the major variant manuscript readings at the bottom of the page:

ubs-5-with-niv-01.jpg


is the implied assumption that older is better

There is an implied preference for the older manuscripts. Scholars, translators, and pastors will not go for the older reading every time.

There aren't any surviving early manuscripts representing the Byzantine texts for the simple reason they were in constant use and eventually fell apart.

There are hundreds of Byzantine manuscripts, although none of the surviving ones are very early.

There is, of course, a bias in survival towards Egypt, because fell-to-bits manuscripts survive well in low humidity.
 
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Radagast

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Radagast, what is that Bible? I'd love to get something like that as my interlinear has tiny print and I now wear bifocals.

That's the United Bible Society Greek New Testament, 5th edition (so not your preferred Greek text) with parallel NIV, from Zondervan: The UBS Greek New Testament, Fifth Edition with the NIV

There is also a plethora of other interlinears out there, plus (next level up) Greek New Testament "Readers Editions" that footnote word meanings.
 
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CaspianSails

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Hey, did any of you know the bible says we have female angels?
Zechariah 5:9 Then lifted I up mine eyes, and looked, and, behold, there came out two women, and the wind was in their wings; for they had wings like the wings of a stork: and they lifted up the ephah between the earth and the heaven. (KJV)

How about God having horns coming out of His hand?
Habakkuk 3:4 And his brightness was as the light; he had horns coming out of his hand: and there was the hiding of his power. (KJV)

And then there is this cannibalism thingy.
Jeremiah 19:9 And I will cause them to eat the flesh of their sons and the flesh of their daughters, and they shall eat every one the flesh of his friend in the siege and straitness, wherewith their enemies, and they that seek their lives, shall straiten them. (KJV)

Or, how bout Isaiah saying there is no God twice?
Isaiah 44:8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any. (KJV)
Isaiah 45:14 Thus saith the Lord, The labour of Egypt, and merchandise of Ethiopia and of the Sabeans, men of stature, shall come over unto thee, and they shall be thine: they shall come after thee; in chains they shall come over, and they shall fall down unto thee, they shall make supplication unto thee, saying, Surely God is in thee; and there is none else, there is no God. (KJV)

Did you know that in Ecclesiastes we find that there are no women who posses wisdom?
Ecclesiastes 7:25 I applied mine heart to know, and to search, and to seek out wisdom, and the reason of things, and to know the wickedness of folly, even of foolishness and madness:
Eccl:7:26 And I find more bitter than death the woman, whose heart is snares and nets, and her hands as bands: whoso pleaseth God shall escape from her; but the sinner shall be taken by her. 7:28 Which yet my soul seeketh, but I find not: one man among a thousand have I found; but a woman among all those have I not found.
(KJV) Really??? Bee's Knees Louise!

Interestingly, I always thought verse 28 ended with "but a woman of established virtue would not be one of such a set." I must have preached that one wrong 2 or 3 times on mothers day. And there's bunches more head scratchers if you wanna go down that rabbit hole with me. I'm willing if you are...


The question is to engage in this or not. Clearly some is due to context and some is how one translates it as well as sentence structure and comprehension. I don't see in those passages that the writer is stating there is no God. Rather in some there is no other God would be the proper meaning.
In the first example the question is, is there a God beside me and the answer, no there is none that I know. Same is true for the second Isaiah passage. God is in thee there is no other God is the meaning. The remaining verses prove this clearly

15 Verily thou art a God that hidest thyself, O God of Israel, the Saviour.

16 They shall be ashamed, and also confounded, all of them: they shall go to confusion together that are makers of idols.

17 But Israel shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

18 For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the Lord; and there is none else.

Solomon is saying he has not found a wise women, not that none exist. I have not found, not there are none saith the Lord.
 
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CaspianSails

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I'm not taking anything out of context my friend.



Oh, I have no doubt about what you found Radagast.

The purpose? To simply place scriptures in front of every one that makes you want to ponder. Hey, I'm not trolling, or wanting to make trouble. God forbid...


That's not what it says! How could I be misreading the passage? I thought the Bible said what it means, and means what it says.

How come nobody took a stab at this one?
Ecclesiastes 7:25 I applied mine heart to know, and to search, and to seek out wisdom, and the reason of things, and to know the wickedness of folly, even of foolishness and madness: 7:26 And I find more bitter than death the woman, whose heart is snares and nets, and her hands as bands: whoso pleaseth God shall escape from her; but the sinner shall be taken by her. 7:28 Which yet my soul seeketh, but I find not: one man among a thousand have I found; but a woman among all those have I not found. (KJV)


I suppose if I had read this first I would not have bothered to reply. You are most certainly out of context and trolling if you ask me. It is not possible to take a verse out of a passage and derive a separate meaning, context is everything.
 
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The Parson

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Sorry for the absence. I went on a camping trip. Very little net access.

So, when I got home just after lunch today, I was doing some search for residue. Hey somebody needs to contact the Washington National Cathedral asap... Look what they've got posted on their website telling folks what's on their stained glass windows:
Two bays over, windows on the theme of Universal Peace honor politician and former Secretary of State Frank Billings Kellogg. The window is especially noteworthy for its depiction of Isaiah 2:4 (“They shall beat their swords into plowshares”) and the so-called Peaceable Kingdom of Isaiah 11:6–9 where “the lion shall lie down with the lamb … and a little child shall lead them.”

Boy, now that's a terrible typo! Isaiah 11:6 says: "the wolf also shall dwell with the lamb", not the "lion shall lie down with the lamb". Shameful inaccuracies! Go figure...

Proclaiming Peace - Washington National Cathedral
 
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I suppose if I had read this first I would not have bothered to reply. You are most certainly out of context and trolling if you ask me. It is not possible to take a verse out of a passage and derive a separate meaning, context is everything.
Yeah, probably have been best not to reply.
 
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