Here comes the second wave

[coffee4u]

Because...if we go back to being hunter-gatherers, all of us, then who will make the vaccine?

If we were hunter-gathers we would not have cruise ships and international flights that spread the virus in the first place.

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

If we were hunter-gathers we would not have cruise ships and international flights that spread the virus in the first place.

Oh, then all viruses were eradicated before the dawn of civilization, and this is just an imaginary epidemic. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[coffee4u]

Oh, then all viruses were eradicated before the dawn of civilization, and this is just an imaginary epidemic. Thanks for the clarification.

Nowhere have I ever said this is an imaginary pandemic. I believe this is all too real and that every country should be taking needed precautions. I think South Korea has been doing a Stella job and that every country should take a page from their book on how to handle things. From here it appears the US has and is still is doing a poor job. As someone with a lower immune system, I have only been to the dentist in the past month and walk my dogs to my father's house and back. Maybe you are getting me confused with someone else on here.

I am saying that back before the ease of travel that we have now, that pandemics/plagues stayed close to home. Imagine the Bubonic plague of London but spread around by international flight. It didn't spread far because they only had horses. Cruise ships and international flights are what spread this from China.
Right now I live in a country town that has not seen a case, but it will only take one person who is infected to drive out that 150Km to start spreading it. 150km would have been quite the trip by horse and cart and not something done on a whim because someone decided they needed to go shopping for the day.

 

[JacksBratt]

There are two ways to end this:

1/ Herd immunity

2/ A vaccine...

A vaccine is 1 1/2 years away at the earliest.

Herd immunity is only achieved when more and more get infected and have antibodies.

They are only trying to slow down the infection so that hospitals and front line workers are not overwhelmed.

Eventually.. it will kill those that it is going to kill.. Eventually many will die.. many will survive.. many won't even know that they had it.


Keep us locked up and the economy shut down too long and this will be far worse than the effects of the virus.

This is the dilemma of the governments.. They know that they have to open up but are trying to do it slowly..

 

[mindlight]

Latest news is that already after only a few days of partial opening Germany's r value is up over 1. In other words every infected person is passing on the infection to more than one other person.
Germany does NOT have control.

China is now getting increasing number again - even from Wuhan; South Korea is getting more again.... Nobody "has control" over this virus. Nobody has control over the annual flu surges. The concept of having "control" over the virus is absurd. It means you can turn it on and turn it off. We need a reality check!

Or do you mean, the number of infections, hospitalisations, intensive care patients, deaths, and chronic sufferers of side-effects is "acceptable?" or "manageable?" In both cases these would reduce living people to nothing more than statistics of "units of production and consumption."

Which is exactly what all the emphasis on saving the economy rather than saving people boils down to. It is the dehumanisation of human beings.

We have 19000 active cases and the number continues to fall. USA has a million and number continues to rise. Where states have R = 1+ these will be shut down if problem persists. Most states do not have this problem

 

[DerSchweik]

NY is not telling you what to do.

Uh, no, it's not - but it does seem to be the basis on which those who are telling us what to do are basing their dictates.

It is like I tell my HS students when they ask "do we have to do this?" I tell them no, this is a free country, no one is going to make you do anything, you don't have to graduate HS, this was only for those who want to pass the class.

Unfortunately, what's actually happening isn't at all like what you're telling your students.

... just sayin.

 

[DerSchweik]

Firstly, it's not the virus that destroys the economy. It's not the virus that destroys the lungs, either. It's the overreaction to the virus that destroys both the lungs and the economy. The immune response destroys the lungs. The fear-mongers destroy the economy.

It's not a pandemic - it's a dempanic.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Nowhere have I ever said this is an imaginary pandemic. I believe this is all too real and that every country should be taking needed precautions. I think South Korea has been doing a Stella job and that every country should take a page from their book on how to handle things. From here it appears the US has and is still is doing a poor job. As someone with a lower immune system, I have only been to the dentist in the past month and walk my dogs to my father's house and back. Maybe you are getting me confused with someone else on here.

I am saying that back before the ease of travel that we have now, that pandemics/plagues stayed close to home. Imagine the Bubonic plague of London but spread around by international flight. It didn't spread far because they only had horses. Cruise ships and international flights are what spread this from China.
Right now I live in a country town that has not seen a case, but it will only take one person who is infected to drive out that 150Km to start spreading it. 150km would have been quite the trip by horse and cart and not something done on a whim because someone decided they needed to go shopping for the day.

The black death spread all across Europe and to some degree, the world, even without modern conveniences... and 1/3 of the world's total population died. Up to 60% of Europe's in some areas. A population loss that took 200 years to recover.

People are still interconnected and always have been, and will continue to be. Man is social. Man knows that crossing the water (remember the bubonic plague spread to Europe via rats on ships filled with goods coming from the orient) means he can have teas and spices and more that he cannot grow or make on his own...

People in cities will always need food from countries and people from countries will always need goods from cities.

People are interconnected. All your doing is saying you'd rather see MORE people die because you'd like to see the modern world go back into a dark ages and throw this country into poverty and chaos.

That will cause more death, not less.

There's a lot that can be said for modernity, we've eradicated many diseases, lengthened people's life expectancy and have generally made it to where people aren't living as hand to mouth as they once did - one drought back in the day meant starvation, today, just another bump in the road.

Romanticizing the past is lovely, in a story book... not so lovely if your living in it. Be careful what you wish for, because you just might get it.

 

[coffee4u]

The black death spread all across Europe and to some degree, the world, even without modern conveniences... and 1/3 of the world's total population died. Up to 60% of Europe's in some areas. A population loss that took 200 years to recover.

People are still interconnected and always have been, and will continue to be. Man is social. Man knows that crossing the water (remember the bubonic plague spread to Europe via rats on ships filled with goods coming from the orient) means he can have teas and spices and more that he cannot grow or make on his own...

People in cities will always need food from countries and people from countries will always need goods from cities.

People are interconnected. All your doing is saying you'd rather see MORE people die because you'd like to see the modern world go back into a dark ages and throw this country into poverty and chaos.

That will cause more death, not less.

There's a lot that can be said for modernity, we've eradicated many diseases, lengthened people's life expectancy and have generally made it to where people aren't living as hand to mouth as they once did - one drought back in the day meant starvation, today, just another bump in the road.

Romanticizing the past is lovely, in a story book... not so lovely if your living in it. Be careful what you wish for, because you just might get it.

I don't know where the pair of you are getting all these crazy ideas of what I want or believe from me simply mentioning that modern travel allows for fast and easy transmission of disease.

Seems like you both need to actually read what is written and stop assuming a novel from a sentence.

 

[Hazelelponi]

I don't know where the pair of you are getting all these crazy ideas of what I want or believe from me simply mentioning that modern travel allows for fast and easy transmission of disease.

Seems like you both need to actually read what is written and stop assuming a novel from a sentence.

You mentioned the the bubonic plague, I was just pointing out that it killed off literally 1/3 of the entire population on earth at that time, and it spread from China, and from there to all of Europe and the world.

Origins Of The Black Death Traced Back To China, Gene Sequencing Has Revealed

Europe of course being the hardest hit by it.

It was not confined to London with little impact on the world, it was the deadliest event in world history.

Modern travel may allow for quicker spread, but even in its absense spread occurs... because people are connected regardless of modern convenience...

That was my point.

 

[ZNP]

You call it a worthless idol, but the fact is that if this disease has a human solution, then the economy is absolutely necessary for arriving at that solution.

That is a mischaracterization.

What I said was " This deadly virus will destroy the economy which in turn will make this idol worthless, something you will throw away. And when you do it will be soaked in blood because before it became worthless you might have been able to save lives with it."

A menstrual rag is not "worthless", it serves a purpose.

 

[bèlla]

The only way to have a modicum of social distance in public travel is a first class cabin that's sectioned off (for flights) or a sleeper cabin on a train. Otherwise the seating is too close.

~Bella

 

[Bobber]

Customers in Packed Colorado Coffee Shop Ignore Mask and Distancing Advice

Customers in Packed Colorado Coffee Shop Ignore Mask and Distancing Advice

video is wow!

But who's guilty of the greater wrong here....the people or the owner of that business? It's one thing for people not to wear masks but as a business to allow that many people to come piling in....even if they're cynical of government overreach I think they could have cooperated to take some measures at showing some balance like so many in the store at a time. Maybe they'll get visited by authorities asking them, "What you're not even going to try to work with us at all on the issue?" The owner is probably putting stress on the staff too making them think,"Oh well...so much for a chance with guidelines I might not get the virus. All that's thrown out the window!" I'm not a fan of the lock down myself BUT wouldn't blame government for locking this place up.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

New York and the surrounding area can't get their infection rates under control so the rest of the country has to stay in lockdown and go bankrupt?

Who said that because NY and NJ and area remain under lockdown that the rest of the country does too? Trump? Cuomo and Murphy can't talk for other states (and they don't). So where did you get the idea other states can't do what they want? I've never heard that before.

 

[Blade]

Na.. in JESUS name. God has is turning this around for HIS glory.. seeing it.. and USA TODAY?

 

[Thera]

Firstly, it's not the virus that destroys the economy. It's not the virus that destroys the lungs, either. It's the overreaction to the virus that destroys both the lungs and the economy. The immune response destroys the lungs. The fear-mongers destroy the economy.

I don't think the immune system damages the lungs. That's done by medical staff with the ventilators (following orders from incompetent/evil overseers). The competent doctors and nurses even posted to Youtube to say so, but then got deleted. If it weren't true, why did it get deleted?

The black death spread all across Europe and to some degree, the world, even without modern conveniences... and 1/3 of the world's total population died. Up to 60% of Europe's in some areas. A population loss that took 200 years to recover.

Yeah. And that disease didn't require draconian government dictates to keep people at home. If it's a real disease, people will stay at home voluntarily. When the government forces people to stay under house arrest, destroys businesses, bans church etc., you can be pretty sure it is a scamdemic (or a dempanic, as I saw someone else quip).

 

[ZNP]

Germany: infections rise as restrictions ease

Germany is reporting that new coronavirus infections are soaring after taking early steps to ease its lockdown -- news that has sounded a global alarm as businesses from Parisian hair salons to Shanghai Disneyland reopen.

Germany reported that the "reproduction rate" -- meaning the number of people each person infected with the coronavirus goes on to infect -- had risen.

This comes just days after German authorities relaxed lockdown measures -- and it shows just how quickly progress can be reversed,even in a country with one of the best records for containing the virus so far in Europe.

And Germany is not alone -- there's been a new outbreak in night clubs in South Korea -- another country that had succeeded in limiting infections.

Governments around the world are struggling with the question of how to reopen their economies while still containing the virus.

UK's COVID-19 death toll tops 40,000, worst in Europe

The UK's COVID-19 death toll has surpassed 40,000 -- making it the worst-affected country in Europe by far.

The new numbers are raising even more questions about Prime Minister Boris Johnson's handling of the crisis.

Figures published by the Office for National Statistics for England and Wales brought the UK's official death toll above 38,000 as of May 3 - according to a Reuters tally that also includes Scotland and Northern Ireland.

Since then, at least 2,250 people have died from COVID-19 in English hospitals.

The data comes just a day after Johnson unveiled a gradual plan to get Britain back to work.

Brazil passes France in coronavirus cases to become 6th worst-hit country

BRASILIA (Reuters) - Brazil registered a record number of new cases of the novel coronavirus on Wednesday, surpassing France’s tally to become the sixth-worst hit country, as the disease sends the economy toward its worst year since at least 1900.

 

[ZNP]

'OPEN IMMEDIATELY!': Wisconsinites head out to bars after state stay-at-home orders lifted

'OPEN IMMEDIATELY!': Wisconsinites head out to bars after state stay-at-home orders lifted

After the Wisconsin Supreme Court struck down the state's stay-at-home order, which immediately lifted restrictions on businesses and gatherings, some bars opened their doors (and taps) Wednesday night as patrons began trickling out.

The ruling applied to Gov. Tony Evers' statewide order to lock down Wisconsin amid the public health emergency of the coronavirus pandemic. Evers intended to keep the order in place until May 26. However, localities are still imposing and extending their own stay-at-home orders, meaning not all businesses in the state may immediately open.

Photos showed small gatherings of Wisconsinites out at bars and restaurants shortly after the ruling came down, while some establishments posted on social media they were staying closed.

 

[rjs330]

Do any of you who support keeping the economy shut down have a plan in what to do when it collapses? What do all the people do who have lost their livelihood? How do they survive?

 

[ArmenianJohn]

Do any of you who support keeping the economy shut down have a plan in what to do when it collapses? What do all the people do who have lost their livelihood? How do they survive?

Governor Cuomo of New York puts it best, we "follow the data" in taking our cues on how and when to "reopen" the economy. As for people who have lost their livelihoods, this isn't the only time that people have lost their livelihoods.

When someone loses their livelihood whether temporarily or permanently, what do you propose they do? There are other jobs out there - wouldn't it make sense for them to look into and get one of those? Many, if not most, have emergency funds saved up for just such an emergency. They can use those to get them through to the next job or until their old jobs become available again. Many of them will also qualify for and get unemployment. People also have other savings and can even dig into their retirement savings (and I've had to do that in my life, I burned through a 401k during the 2008-2009 recession). Not to mention that most people are getting some form of a government stimulus package - the government probably should give a little more to certain people. The government has money to bail out banks and large corporations with no problem so they can find money for small businesses and individuals if they really want to.

Should someone be entitled to their job if their job endangers the society in general? If you believe they should then you believe that drug dealers on the street should have their jobs and be left alone. Also you'd then have to agree that people who serve food without any sanitary conditions should be left alone - they can pick food and meat out of garbage cans and serve it to anyone but never get into any trouble for it. Is that what you're advocating? Just give people their jobs with no concern for general public safety because at least it helps them make money? Can you show me where you advocated for that before the coronavirus? I doubt it.