US now has most COVID-19 deaths, surpassing Italy (ETA: more than Italy per capita)

loveofourlord

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(All stats from here: Coronavirus Update (Live): 1,848,388 Cases and 113,946 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Pandemic - Worldometer)
Well, Italy has 329 deaths per million. Spain has 366. Across the US, only 66. But per @loveofourlord's point,

New York 478
New Jersey 265
Louisiana 180
Connecticut 155
Michigan 149
Massachusetts 111

Are you ok with that? Only San Marino has a higher rate. But they've had only 35 deaths (they have a population of only 33K or so).

The tragedy in NY outstrips anywhere else in the world. And other states are following hard on.

plus should be pointed out new york has had more confirmed cases then italy too.
 
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pitabread

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For all that rural America gets from the coasts regarding politics and way of life....the pandemic is highlighting one of the disadvantages of living in a big city.

San Francisco is doing better than some, although they had the advantage of a mayor who locked things down early.
 
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Ana the Ist

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San Francisco is doing better than some, although they had the advantage of a mayor who locked things down early.

Sure....there's always going to be examples that defy the trend.

The thing is that it's a disease that will disproportionately harm the elderly, the poor, and those who are unable to abide social distancing. These factors will always be in a higher concentration in big cities.
 
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Skewpoint

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Sure....there's always going to be examples that defy the trend.

The thing is that it's a disease that will disproportionately harm the elderly, the poor, and those who are unable to abide social distancing. These factors will always be in a higher concentration in big cities.
Can't do anything to prevent getting elderly.
Not being poor is more in personal control but still very difficult to do anything about, especially on short notice.
Not social distancing, and to a further extent disobeying mass gathering bans, are completely within everybody's control regardless of the above two reasons (within reason).

Filtering out areas where people are doing the 3rd point above the most would be very useful data to have, and shifting resources to areas that are disobeying the above point the least.
 
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Ana the Ist

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Can't do anything to prevent getting elderly.

Sure.

Not being poor is more in personal control but still very difficult to do anything about, especially on short notice.

I agree...my point was more about the higher concentration of poor in cities. It's a matter of having 3000 poor people per square mile vs 30.

Not social distancing, and to a further extent disobeying mass gathering bans, are completely within everybody's control regardless of the above two reasons (within reason).

Filtering out areas where people are doing the 3rd point above the most would be very useful data to have, and shifting resources to areas that are disobeying the above point the least.

Yeah....again though, my point was more about the higher concentration of people. Everyone has to go out and get food at some point. Everyone will come across other people in that endeavor.

Whether you come across a dozen people or 200 when gathering necessary things to survive makes a difference when we're talking about an easily spread airborne disease.
 
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Need answers

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60 million people in Italy. 300 million people in US.

A lot of deaths in both countries but larger percentage of the population in Italy.

However, none of the numbers is indicating that we will hit the 100s of thousand deaths so many have predicted. Death curve is increasing because it lags behind new cases but new cases curve is declining.
This, thank you.
 
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KCfromNC

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The majority of deaths occur in older folks with health problems. Minority populations are hit the hardest as it is they who are most reluctant to seek medical attention early on. The crowded conditions that New Yorkers live in, which is especially true of minorities, is a key factor in the rapid spread of the virus. All these factors created a 'perfect storm' in New York.
Oh, sorry, didn't read between the lines and realize this was being used as an excuse to blame minorities.
 
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KCfromNC

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If New York was the entire US, Hillary Clinton would be President and the entire US might well have 100 more per capita than Italy due to the likely possibility that she . like Biden, would not have banned travel from China when Trump did

Just to add some facts to the mix - banning travel from China (which didn't actually happen) wouldn't have mattered given the source of the cases in the worst hit US city :
New York coronavirus outbreak originated in Europe, studies show
 
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OldWiseGuy

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Oh, sorry, didn't read between the lines and realize this was being used as an excuse to blame minorities.

Forum Rules: NO READING BETWEEN THE LINES. :mad:
 
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OldWiseGuy

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OldWiseGuy

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Why would anyone be thankful about 60-70 thousand dead in a month or two? This seems even weirder than trying to use it as an excuse to blame minorities for getting the disease.

You have to read between the lines. ;)
 
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Monna

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Each death must be examined carefully for a multitude of reasons.

Soup time, OldWiseGuy... ;)

What is happening in the patholigists' offices? Are they keeping up with the demand, or are autopsies being done quickly? Who is there to check that the autoposies are carried out "carefully," or are coroners overworked? I don't mean to cast aspersions, just asking for reality check and "facts!" When mortuaries are overfull and refrigeratortrucks are being used, and massgraves are being used, one wonders how many autopsies are practical in the time and with the resources available.
Already there is room for "confusion" in stating the real cause of death when many coronavirus victims have a history of multiple chronic diseases, and direct cause of death may be organ failure or pneumonia.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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Soup time, OldWiseGuy... ;)

What is happening in the patholigists' offices? Are they keeping up with the demand, or are autopsies being done quickly? Who is there to check that the autoposies are carried out "carefully," or are coroners overworked? I don't mean to cast aspersions, just asking for reality check and "facts!" When mortuaries are overfull and refrigeratortrucks are being used, and massgraves are being used, one wonders how many autopsies are practical in the time and with the resources available.
Already there is room for "confusion" in stating the real cause of death when many coronavirus victims have a history of multiple chronic diseases, and direct cause of death may be organ failure or pneumonia.

There will likely be lots of information about those who died, most notably their age and medical history, which is available sans an autopsy. Respiratory failure is a common cause of death in the elderly, so there is no great mystery here.
 
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grasping the after wind

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Trump tried closing the gate after the enemy had already entered.
Are you saying that if one enemy enters you would be for leaving the gate open so all of his friends can come in too?
 
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OldWiseGuy

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Trump's and other's early statements were hopeful/wishful thinking. Almost everyone did it. There's no special blame to be placed here, although the Dems will likely try to impeach Trump again, for his 'criminal negligence' in this crisis.
 
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grasping the after wind

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Just to add some facts to the mix - banning travel from China (which didn't actually happen) wouldn't have mattered given the source of the cases in the worst hit US city :
New York coronavirus outbreak originated in Europe, studies show

Because China was banned, the virus had to find its way to the US through Europe. It was therefore delayed and Europe was hit first because , unlike Trump, the Europeans did not ban travel from China early enough to make a difference for them and eventually for us. With the exception of China, Trump definitely did not ban travel from all other countries early enough and it is not arguable that had he done so he would have been alone in support of that action. He should have shut doe win travel from everywhere on Jan. 31st. In reality though, I am of the opinion that there was actually nothing any government of a large country could have done to keep this disease from entering their country at some point. It was inevitable that it was going to happen. This particular disease is just too infectious to be contained.
 
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loveofourlord

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Are you saying that if one enemy enters you would be for leaving the gate open so all of his friends can come in too?

no, this is about a enemy enters that convinces other people to join his cause, closingthe gate he got in through, while leaving the other fifty or so gates wide open knowing there are people entering through those gates with the same plan.
 
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loveofourlord

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Because China was banned, the virus had to find its way to the US through Europe. It was therefore delayed and Europe was hit first because , unlike Trump, the Europeans did not ban travel from China early enough to make a difference for them and eventually for us. With the exception of China, Trump definitely did not ban travel from all other countries early enough and it is not arguable that had he done so he would have been alone in support of that action. He should have shut doe win travel from everywhere on Jan. 31st. In reality though, I am of the opinion that there was actually nothing any government of a large country could have done to keep this disease from entering their country at some point. It was inevitable that it was going to happen. This particular disease is just too infectious to be contained.

Except by your own list it was already in, and by that point it was spreading through the country. This isn't one muslim gets in and stop travel from saudia arabia, it's one muslim got in, stop travel from saudia arabia, while he's in the country brainwashing people at a alarming rate to join his cause, and the other muslim countries are adding their own muslims into the country.
 
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GreatLakes4Ever

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Are you saying that if one enemy enters you would be for leaving the gate open so all of his friends can come in too?

Other gates were still open, including the gates on either side of the gate we closed (let’s call them Seoul and Tokyo. You could fly anywhere in China to a different spot and then into the USA no problem.). Also there was nothing done about the enemy in the walled city already. The enemy was allowed to kill or worse convince others to join their ranks.

The problem isn’t Trump made the China travel ban, its that it wasn’t nearly enough. Trump is in charge. If something doesn’t happen it’s on him according to his own words: Donald J. Trump on Twitter If Trump doesn’t want that responsibility, then get out of here and place someone in that position who will take that responsibility.
 
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