You have to be careful with the language here. Firstly, there would not be an increase in the rate of mutations (as I said before). It is plausible that mutations that would otherwise be mildly detrimental could accumulate -
I think you will find that I wasn’t talking about the increase in mutation rate but an increase in the accumulation of mutations.
- however, they will only accumulate if their detrimental effects are compensated for by medical intervention and/or better nutrition, standard of living, etc.; IOW if they are no longer significantly detrimental with regard to reproductive fitness because the environment has changed.
I don’t think it is as black and white as that. Not all mutations are weeded out as a result of improved medical interventions. That was the point of the paper I linked that not all disease disorders are completely cured or eradicated and modern medicine allows more sick and disordered people to live to allow more harmful mutations to hang around. The mutations are too small for natural selection to weed out. IE
as improved biomedical procedures continue to minimize the cumulative consequences of our genetic (and/or environmentally induced) afflictions
Also, modern ways of life invite diseases and disorders too fast for selection to weed out.
Furthermore, as noted above, any relaxation of selection on the consequences of somatic mutations is likely to simultaneously relax selection on the germline mutation rate.
This is supported by the fact that disorders are increasing
In the United States, the incidences of a variety of afflictions including autism, male infertility, asthma, immune-system disorders, diabetes, etc., already exhibit increases exceeding the expected rate.
It's true that bacteria are rapidly reproducing organisms that gain significant benefit from boosting their mutation rates under stress (by switching to less efficient DNA repair mechanisms IIRC). So, yes - if we cause stress to bacteria their mutation rates will probably increase - so we should try not to do that. But how is that relevant to mutations in humans? [/quote] My point is not just about genetic disorders in humans, but generally, human activity is causing more infections, diseases, and disorders in humans some of which are related to being genetically modified.
Now a recent study published in the Annals of Internal Medicine suggests far more people than previously thought are carrying variants of rare genetic diseases and could force us to redefine what is considered a healthy genome.
Far More People Than Thought Are Carrying Rare Genetic Diseases - ExtremeTech
Estimating Mutation Load in Human Genomes
Millions of new variants have been discovered in human genomic datasets. Many of these, especially rare variants, have been annotated as deleterious
Moreover a large number of deleterious mutations may also exist in the non-coding portion of the genome75, meaning that studies focusing on exomes have only studied a small portion of the mutational load that may exist in the human genome37.
Estimating Mutation Load in Human Genomes
Firstly, that depends on how you define 'harmful' - in evolutionary terms, they are not significantly detrimental or they wouldn't accumulate.[/quote] That is what some of the papers are saying that the mutations are only slight and not picked up by selection. But they accumulate over time and this can have a harmful effect as the more get into the gene pool.
Secondly, the paper you quoted says that those mutations accumulate because they are no longer subject to the same selection pressures, not because the rate of mutation has increased. You have yet to give any evidence that modern lifestyle has significantly affected the mutation rate.[/quote] As mentioned above I think I was pointing out that mutations have been accumulating and therefore increasing but not increasing in the rate of speed.
Don't be silly. I'm asking you for evidence to support your claim. While you're at it, I'd like to see the evidence of a significant increase in human disorders, diseases, pathogens and contagions (allowing for better diagnostics). Last I heard, human disorders, diseases, pathogens and contagions had declined to the point that we are now suffering from novel disorders due to a lack of immune stimulation during development.
I'm asking for evidence of an increase in mental disorders and diseases (allowing for better diagnostics).
I think we have eradicated many diseases, but these have mostly been because of a lack of tech and medical abilities which are not so much about human-induced diseases and disorders. What I am talking about are human-induced diseases and disorders that come from lifestyle and there are many examples.
The most obvious are heart disease, diabetes and obesity
The number of American children with chronic illnesses has roughly quadrupled in the past 50 years, including an almost fourfold increase in childhood obesity in the past three decades and twice the asthma rates since the 1980s. People are more sedentary and less physically active than before, and fast food is more available. type I diabetes, "a childhood form of diabetes almost unheard of at the turn of the 20th century, is up from one in 5,000 or 10,000 to one in 250 in some regions
Why Are Humans Always So Sick? | Live Science
There are many more Multiple sclerosis, metabolic syndrome, malfunctions of the
immune system, etc.
Chronic and degenerative illnesses are largely new to mankind. In fact, diseases such as cancer, diabetes, fibromyalgia, and multiple sclerosis have been termed modern or man-made diseases because they were relatively rare until three hundred years or so ago.
Modern Disease and the Rise of the Allopathic Model | Chelsea Green Publishing
But it is also the many chronic diseases that the above diseases bring as well like cancers, liver, lung kidney-pancreas diseases, disorders associated with metabolic syndrome which can be many such as atherosclerosis and musculoskeletal diseases. Too many to name but all mostly associated with lifestyle.
2.1 The global burden of chronic
The burden of chronic diseases is rapidly increasing worldwide. It has been calculated that, in 2001, chronic diseases contributed approximately 60% of the 56.5 million total reported deaths in the world and approximately 46% of the global burden of disease (1). The proportion of the burden of NCDs is expected to increase to 57% by 2020. Almost half of the total chronic disease deaths are attributable to cardiovascular diseases; obesity and diabetes are also showing worrying trends, not only because they already affect a large proportion of the population, but also because they have started to appear earlier in life.
WHO | 2. Background
Then there are the psychological and mental disorders associated with the brain which are increasing every day.
Mental health issues increased significantly in young adults over the last decade
Mental health issues increased significantly in young adults over last decade: Shift may be due in part to rise of digital media, study suggests
And developmental disorders in children that are increasing.
Increase in Developmental Disabilities Among Children in the United States
Increase in Developmental Disabilities Among Children in the US
That's overstating it. Not all changes have effects at the genetic level.
Why if the phenotypes of all living things are a representation of our genotypes and this is closely connected to the environment and what happens to it then this is going to have an effect on our bodies and minds and thus our genetic state sooner or later. As mentioned this is especially true with epigenetics. So if our environments are polluted or there are many pathogens or we are living under stress because of modern life or we destroy other species and ecosystems which deplete the overall variety of life and the health of biodiversity this will affect our genetic expression and makeup and this can be passed to future generations.
Sure, there is evidence of some genetic changes in living things due to human activities - I'm asking you to provide evidence that it is significantly deleterious to the human genome.
I haven't said there isn't much evidence, I'm saying you haven't provided any, so I'm asking you to provide evidence that any such effects are significantly detrimental to the human genome, as you claimed.
I'm asking you to support your claim with evidence because I want to see the evidence; if what you say is true, I'm surprised I haven't heard about it, and I'd like to know more.
So I have mentioned this above with epigenetics and here is some evidence.
Epigenetics and Human Disease
Genetic causes for human disorders are being discovered at an unprecedented pace. A growing subclass of disease-causing mutations involves changes in the epigenome or in the abundance and activity of proteins that regulate chromatin structure. This article focuses on research that has uncovered human diseases that stem from such epigenetic deregulation.
The Barker or thrifty phenotype hypothesis, which has evolved into the fetal origins hypothesis of adult disease posits that reduced fetal nutrition is associated with an increased risk of adult disorders including coronary heart disease, stroke, diabetes, and hypertension (Guilloteau et al. 2009; Calkins and Devaskar 2011; Dyer and Rosenfeld 2011).
Epigenetics and Human Disease
Epigenetic influences and human diseases
The findings from various studies clearly suggest that aberrations in the epigenome are critical factors in the initiation and progression of many diseases.
Epigenetics of human diseases and scope in future therapeutics - ScienceDirect
Epigenetic Inheritance of Disease and Disease Risk
Epigenetic marks in an organism can be altered by environmental factors throughout life. Although changes in the epigenetic code can be positive, some are associated with severe diseases, in particular, cancer and neuropsychiatric disorders. Recent evidence has indicated that certain epigenetic marks can be inherited, and reshape developmental and cellular features over generations.
Epigenetic Inheritance of Disease and Disease Risk
