Marriage help

[Arkrider410]

Well to put it short we have been married for less than a month since march 16 and now she wants to get a divorce because she says I lied to her about masterbateing

 

[splish- splash]

Maybe I'm wrong but, shouldn't this problem be sorted once, one finds a marriage partner for sharing those special intimate moments with, amongst other things?

 

[createdtoworship]

Well to put it short we have been married for less than a month since march 16 and now she wants to get a divorce because she says I lied to her about masterbateing

I would buy the book pure desire (by ted roberts) and have her read it with you (it speaks of both in the couple dealing with it, and has a chapter on what to tell the wife). It will help conquer the inappropriate content issue as well as tackle the harder issue of masturbation and fantasy in general. I think if she knows you are trying to be better and get help, she may give you another chance. But inappropriate content usage makes it twice as likely to get divorced, and even if you do divorce, inappropriate content use makes it twice as likely you will break up in your next relationship. So you need to make war with it now, fight for your marriage. She is not wrong wanting to leave as you are literally cheating on her with infinite online women by fantasy. To me that is like being unfaithful. No different than sleeping with another woman. So anyway, I post regularly to my thread on trafficking, it has some tips at the end of the thread, Human Trafficking; Be part of the solution, not part of the problem

I post there regularly stuff I see regarding the inappropriate content issues, #fightthenewdrug

 

[solid_core]

Well to put it short we have been married for less than a month since march 16 and now she wants to get a divorce because she says I lied to her about masterbateing

1. Did you lied about it?

2. I very doubt masturbation is a valid reason for divorce. She seems to be pretty judgemental and wanting total perfection. What next, she will want divorce because you looked at a young woman on the street? Seems she takes divorce quite lightly.

 

[solid_core]

Maybe I'm wrong but, shouldn't this problem be sorted once, one finds a marriage partner for sharing those special intimate moments with, amongst other things?

I suppose she means the premarital masturbation and lying about it. But who knows.

 

[Josheb]

Well to put it short we have been married for less than a month since march 16 and now she wants to get a divorce because she says I lied to her about [masturbating]

Was inappropriate contentography being viewed?

 

[LoricaLady]

I too wonder if inappropriate content was involved. One way or another it would have to be, even if just in the mind in fantasies. People don't just touch and go into neutral mode mentally.

Has she found some inappropriate content around your home or maybe on your iPhone? I wonder because, otherwise how likely would she be to know about the issue?

The biggest problem is not the wife wanting a divorce, though that is not a non issue. The biggest problem is that your are apparently addicted to inappropriate content. Messiah said that if a man even mentally lusts after a woman that he has committed adultery in his heart. Not the way to get to Heaven.

There are some women out there, though I'd guess that aren't common and you wife doesn't sound like one, who will try to help the husband get over his addiction.

If you lied to her about masturbation that implies that you were asked about it. Before the marriage. And since you were not honest, that means you deceived the woman into marrying you under false pretenses. Frankly, that would be a major challenge to most women.

Again, the biggest problem is the inappropriate content addiction, even more than a potential divorce. I pray you get totally freed from it. Many have found this book helpful: Every Man's Battle.

 

[Josheb]

The biggest problem is that your are apparently addicted to inappropriate content.

Whoa! Let's not get ahead of the facts in evidence.

Men touch. Even Stephen Arterburn, Fred Stoeker, and Mike Yorkey. Not all men use inappropriate contentography or imagine women other than there wife. Yes, the biggest problem might actually be his wife wanting a divorce (supposedly) because her husband was observed masturbating. Unlikely, but possible. Either way, it's likely there's something more going on with both ends of that relationship than has been disclosed in this op.


Perhaps their wedding vows didn't include that part "for better, for worse...." of if they were said those two don't understand the meaning of those words .

 

[Stephanie7]

Heavenly Father, I pray that this couple will come to an understanding and the young bride will find it in her heart to forgive her husband for his past transgressions, In Jesus Name, Amen

 

[createdtoworship]

Messiah said that if a man even mentally lusts after a woman that he has committed adultery in his heart. Not the way to get to Heaven.

I think addictive sins are tricky, I would not say that one's salvation is in jeopardy. But if one ever becomes a proud inappropriate content user, and teaches others to use it, and is happy to do it, that is another category of sin, that is what the bible calls 'practicing sin.' And that would be a danger zone, but if he struggles, is addicted, can't quit and feels shame and remorse over his addiction, I believe there is grace and forgiveness for all sin in Christ. That does not mean it won't damage a marriage, or one's mind longterm, or even one's other relationships. But good post I agree with almost all of it.

 

[LoricaLady]

Whoa! Let's not get ahead of the facts in evidence.

Men touch. Even Stephen Arterburn, Fred Stoeker, and Mike Yorkey. Not all men use inappropriate contentography or imagine women other than there wife. Yes, the biggest problem might actually be his wife wanting a divorce (supposedly) because her husband was observed masturbating. Unlikely, but possible. Either way, it's likely there's something more going on with both ends of that relationship than has been disclosed in this op.


Perhaps their wedding vows didn't include that part "for better, for worse...." of if they were said those two don't understand the meaning of those words .

You are free to believe that masturbation is fine with the Lord and that sexual activities are not restricted to marriage. You are free to believe that people can touch and not have sexual thughts. And I am free to disagree on that.

The wife says the husband "lied about not masturbating." That seems to make it clear that...

1. They had talked about masturbation.
2. He had said that he didn't do that.
3. He actually does do that, since he is not denying it and she has evidently seen evidence for that.

We cannot be positive but it certainly seems he lied before the marriage. Therefore the marriage was contracted under false pretenses. She has every right to feel betrayed and used. Further, again, since sexual activities are to be restricted to marriage per the Bible, she has every right to feel that she is being cheated on. He is not giving her his sexual energies, but his hand - and as I believe, to some fantasy partners. Is that what the Father wants in a marriage?

Yes, she could forgive him. I am not saying she should or shouldn't. That is up to her. Forgiveness and trust are not one and the same at all, however.

 

[LoricaLady]

I think addictive sins are tricky, I would not say that one's salvation is in jeopardy. But if one ever becomes a proud inappropriate content user, and teaches others to use it, and is happy to do it, that is another category of sin, that is what the bible calls 'practicing sin.' And that would be a danger zone, but if he struggles, is addicted, can't quit and feels shame and remorse over his addiction, I believe there is grace and forgiveness for all sin in Christ. That does not mean it won't damage a marriage, or one's mind longterm, or even one's other relationships. But good post I agree with almost all of it.

Of course there is grace and forgiveness in Messiah. That is why I tried to get him to focus more on the masturbation than on the marriage, though I supposed I should have been more specific and said that he needed to go to the Lord for help.

 

[Josheb]

You are free to believe that masturbation is fine with the Lord and that sexual activities are not restricted to marriage. .

I never said any such thing.


And so communication has broken down between us because I've just had words I never wrote and never thought and never intended just imposed upon my posts.

Stop it.

 

[Josheb]

The wife says the husband "lied about not masturbating."

Except that is not what the op states.

That again, is you putting words into another's post that were never posted.

Stop it.


What was actually posted is, "she says I lied to her about masterbateing..." In other words, all we have is a second hand account of something said by someone who isn't present to deny or confirm. He apparently lied about masturbating, He didn't lie about not masturbating. You put the "not" in there.

Stop it.

A lie necessarily implies willful deceit. By implication the wife believes she was willfully deceived by the husband writing this op. We do not know the nature of that deceit. That's one of the reasons I asked about the use of inappropriate contentography. I did not derisively assume its usage; I asked first. I asked because the affirmative or negative answer greatly informs what is posted in this limited op.


And now this discussion has became about your mishandling of what is stated and the practice of deriding and disrespecting others by making straw men of their posts.

Please stop it.

 

[Josheb]

We cannot be positive but it certainly seems....

No, we cannot be positive and because we cannot be positive we should be cautious about assuming certainty. In this case questions are more powerful that statements. How about we get the germane facts before we judge and advise?

...he lied before the marriage.

Yes, it does seem that way.

Therefore the marriage was contracted under false pretenses.

If she isn't sticking to her "for better, for worse," promise then she didn't enter the marriage true, either. Both entered the marital covenant under what is likely to be idealized pretenses, not malevolent pretenses. Still false either way but the handling of the former is much different than the handling of the latter. Most couples learn things about each other they previously thought were otherwise, and the "I thought you said you were....." is a common conversation in many marriages. That doesn't mean willful intent to deceive was practiced.

She has every right to feel betrayed and used.

I'm inclined to agree based on real practical and real professional experience having worked with scores of couples with similar concerns.

But I'll wait until the facts are in before I start diagnosing and advising.

Further, again, since sexual activities are to be restricted to marriage per the Bible, she has every right to feel that she is being cheated on.

Except there isn't a single verse in the entirety of the Bible that mentions masturbation.

He is not giving her his sexual energies, but his hand - and as I believe, to some fantasy partners.

And that might be because his wife has not given him her "sexual energies."


While you and I are trading posts all the men reading this are sitting in front of their computers producing sperm and sperm. It is a process that happens 24 hours a day 7even days a week from the onset of puberty. When the testes and prostate get full a man will [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]. It's not somethin he chooses to do; it will happen and it will happen because that is the way God designed the male anatomy. And I wonder if this op's wife understands that. I wonder if the op understands that. I wonder because I have worked scores of adult males of varying ages who don't know and understand the God-designed facts of their own physiology.

There are three common means of [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]: nocturnal emissions, sexual intercourse, masturbation. In Biblical times men and women married with the onset of puberty and through arranged marriages. In America and other western societies marriage is delayed on average until the lat twenties, meaning men do not have the option of sexual intercourse to relieve what is otherwise a natural, normal, and God-designed condition wherein seminal vesicles get full. And the church does not do a very good job of addressing this reality. Many, many a man has reached that point and inadvertently [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] in the shower simply because his body was at that point and it didn't take much stimulation. It does not mean the man was self-gratifying himself.

And we ought to find out the facts before we hang this man.

And the reason for getting the facts is because the likely underlying issues have little to do with masturbation.

Is that what the Father wants in a marriage?

Nope, and nothing Ihave posted should be construed to say otherwise.

Yes, she could forgive him.

Yep.

I am not saying she should or shouldn't.

Well then I will say it: She should forgive him and she she do it for both their individual sakes and the sake of their marriage and she should forgive all that is involved surrounding the incident where they both bear culpability.

That is up to her. Forgiveness and trust are not one and the same at all, however.

I completely agree. I will also add forgiveness isn't the goal; it is merely one step, one objective toward reaching larger goals of reconciliation, healing, and marital oneness..... with God.

Ecclesiastes 4:4-12
"4I have seen that every labor and every skill which is done is the result of rivalry between a man and his neighbor. This too is vanity and striving after wind. 5The fool folds his hands and consumes his own flesh. 6One hand full of rest is better than two fists full of labor and striving after wind. 7Then I looked again at vanity under the sun. 8There was a certain man without a dependent, having neither a son nor a brother, yet there was no end to all his labor. Indeed, his eyes were not satisfied with riches and he never asked, 'And for whom am I laboring and depriving myself of pleasure?' This too is vanity and it is a grievous task. 9Two are better than one because they have a good return for their labor. 10For if either of them falls, the one will lift up his companion. But woe to the one who falls when there is not another to lift him up. 11Furthermore, if two lie down together they keep warm, but how can one be warm alone? 12And if one can overpower him who is alone, two can resist him. A cord of three strands is not quickly torn apart."​

What do you think is the likelihood those two spouses understand they made a marriage covenant with God?

And He is the offended party?



So please stop putting words into others' posts they didn't actually write. That does not help.

Sadly, it appears this op isn't coming back despite the implied plea for help and therefore the op amounts to another form of self-indulgence (that probably isn't recognized for what it is). But, hey, maybe I need more information .

 

[LoricaLady]

z

Whoa! Let's not get ahead of the facts in evidence.

Men touch. Even Stephen Arterburn, Fred Stoeker, and Mike Yorkey. Not all men use inappropriate contentography or imagine women other than there wife. Yes, the biggest problem might actually be his wife wanting a divorce (supposedly) because her husband was observed masturbating. Unlikely, but possible. Either way, it's likely there's something more going on with both ends of that relationship than has been disclosed in this op.


Perhaps their wedding vows didn't include that part "for better, for worse...." of if they were said those two don't understand the meaning of those words .

Your comment 'Men touch" followed by a list of men I never heard of who "even" do it, seemed to me to be a "Boys will be boys" kind of indifference to masturbation. Sometimes we misunderstand what people mean in posts, but I could not make any other sense out of your comments there personally. Sorry!

I said "The wife said the man lied about not masturbating." You said I was putting words into another's post in stating that. This is from the OP: "She says I lied to her about not masturbating."
This is not a debate forum. Sorry, but I really have nothing more to say to you and will not respond to any more of your posts. Bye!

 

[Josheb]

Your comment 'Men touch" followed by a list of men I never heard of who "even" do it, seemed to me to be a "Boys will be boys" kind of indifference to masturbation....

And that was a wrong assumption to make. There aren't any excuses to be made or explanations minimizing the wrong doing.

Sorry!

Apology accepted. However, what matters is that the wrongdoing cease.

Are you aware there is no report of Christians ever saying "I'm sorry," in the NT? The only record is pagans apologizing to Christians they've wronged. I don't want to sound like I'm splitting hairs here or being legalistic because "I'm sorry" is an accepted cultural practice but the standard of scripture is confession, repentance, restitution, forgiveness, and reconciliation. This particular case is a trivial matter so you may consider the matter resolved for my part but the turth of that is meted out in future exchange in which care is taken not to repeat the mistakes, as evidenced by....

I said "The wife said the man lied about not masturbating." You said I was putting words into another's post in stating that. This is from the OP: "She says I lied to her about not masturbating."

Look more closely. Twice now the word, "not" has been inserted where it does not exist. The OP DOES NOT say, "She says I lied to her about not masturbating."

What the op states is, "she says I lied to her about masterbateing."

The word, "not," is not in the op. You added it. And now you''ve added it again after just having been asked not to do that. This is due either to a simple unintended mistake, or it is due to a willful decision. If the latter then it could be done for many reasons, intentional provocation, or defensiveness, or any number of motives that aren't the concern of this discussion. What is germane is the plain, simple, undeniable, irrefutable fact a word was added to the op and then comments were made based on that addition.

It's called a straw man. Whether intended or not it is wrong. There isn't any defense of it but there is a very simple and easy means of redress, and the following is not it...

This is not a debate forum. Sorry, but I really have nothing more to say to you and will not respond to any more of your posts. Bye!

Do those two mentions of "sorry" mean the same thing?


Saying bye without having made amends isn't what I hope for bu t I understand. Getting caught in wrongdoing often leads to flight, even though I'm the guy that can be with the wrongdoer throughout the whole matter..... as long as an effort is made not to put words into others' posts .

The flighting is useful for arkrider410's benefit. It's the kind of event I hope he can avoid with his wife. I hope he listens quite intently to her and doesn't read into her words things she's not actually saying. And I hope his wife can and will do the same with him because catching a spouse masturbating isn't grounds for divorce. Neither is having lied about masturbating in the past. It's a great opportunity for greater authenticity and the kind of love healthy marriages and relationships are built upon. In all likelihood this op is about something much larger than getting caught masturbating and the op may have done what you've done: run from the discussion unnecessarily imaging it as a debate when it isn't.

1 Corinthians 13:4-8
"Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never fails."​

God is love (1 Jn. 4:8).

God is patient and kind; God does not envy or boast; He is not arrogant or rude. He does not insist on His own way; he is not irritable or resentful; He does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. God bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. God never fails."​

This is the standard to which we are all called (Rom. 13:8; 1 Cor. 13:2).

"Josh is patient and kind; Josh does not envy or boast; he is not arrogant or rude. He does not insist on his own way; he is not irritable or resentful; he does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. Josh bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Josh never ends."​

Scripture can be so inconvenient sometimes .

 

[LoricaLady]

And that was a wrong assumption to make. There aren't any excuses to be made or explanations minimizing the wrong doing.

Apology accepted. However, what matters is that the wrongdoing cease.

Are you aware there is no report of Christians ever saying "I'm sorry," in the NT? The only record is pagans apologizing to Christians they've wronged. I don't want to sound like I'm splitting hairs here or being legalistic because "I'm sorry" is an accepted cultural practice but the standard of scripture is confession, repentance, restitution, forgiveness, and reconciliation. This particular case is a trivial matter so you may consider the matter resolved for my part but the turth of that is meted out in future exchange in which care is taken not to repeat the mistakes, as evidenced by....

Look more closely. Twice now the word, "not" has been inserted where it does not exist. The OP DOES NOT say, "She says I lied to her about not masturbating."

What the op states is, "she says I lied to her about masterbateing."

The word, "not," is not in the op. You added it. And now you''ve added it again after just having been asked not to do that. This is due either to a simple unintended mistake, or it is due to a willful decision. If the latter then it could be done for many reasons, intentional provocation, or defensiveness, or any number of motives that aren't the concern of this discussion. What is germane is the plain, simple, undeniable, irrefutable fact a word was added to the op and then comments were made based on that addition.

It's called a straw man. Whether intended or not it is wrong. There isn't any defense of it but there is a very simple and easy means of redress, and the following is not it...

Do those two mentions of "sorry" mean the same thing?


Saying bye without having made amends isn't what I hope for bu t I understand. Getting caught in wrongdoing often leads to flight, even though I'm the guy that can be with the wrongdoer throughout the whole matter..... as long as an effort is made not to put words into others' posts .

The flighting is useful for arkrider410's benefit. It's the kind of event I hope he can avoid with his wife. I hope he listens quite intently to her and doesn't read into her words things she's not actually saying. And I hope his wife can and will do the same with him because catching a spouse masturbating isn't grounds for divorce. Neither is having lied about masturbating in the past. It's a great opportunity for greater authenticity and the kind of love healthy marriages and relationships are built upon. In all likelihood this op is about something much larger than getting caught masturbating and the op may have done what you've done: run from the discussion unnecessarily imaging it as a debate when it isn't.

1 Corinthians 13:4-8
"Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never fails."​

God is love (1 Jn. 4:8).

God is patient and kind; God does not envy or boast; He is not arrogant or rude. He does not insist on His own way; he is not irritable or resentful; He does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. God bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. God never fails."​

This is the standard to which we are all called (Rom. 13:8; 1 Cor. 13:2).

"Josh is patient and kind; Josh does not envy or boast; he is not arrogant or rude. He does not insist on his own way; he is not irritable or resentful; he does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. Josh bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Josh never ends."​

Scripture can be so inconvenient sometimes .

I barely glanced over your post. It seems you are still trying to debate. Since this is the Prayer Forum, debating is not really allowed here. Bye!