Fellowship - is talking to others the same thing as fellowship with God?

[K2K]

The following quote is from the statement of purpose for this section:

"Those who choose to participate in this forum are looking for a deeper walk with the Lord through fellowship with His family."

There is something I see in Christianity that has gotten me thinking - there is often a conclusion that seems to be made that implies that if I talk to other Christians I also develop a relationship with God. I am using the above statement as an example but I have heard very similar things often around the church. It is one of those things you hear and wonder if it is true. It just doesn't quite seem to be true, but I usually go on without exploring it future.

Today in my time with the Lord He brought it up. He knows the things that bothers me and in time He seems to get around to covering them with me. Today was a day for cover this issue.

Now, if I talk to my brother I have fellowship with him. Yet even if we talk about our sisters neither of us actually had fellowship with our sisters. If I talk to my mom, even about me did, it certainly doesn't mean I had fellowship with my dad. He died. I believe he lives on in heaven but I have not had a conversation with him. So I look forward to the day when I might again have fellowship with him, but day is not today, nor is that achieved by talking to my mom.

God is unique though. His word is found in our hearts and on our lips. So perhaps I can actually have fellowship with God by having fellowship with other believers???

That is the question, and the Lord wanted to work on it with me this morning. Often He and I go for a walk and discuss such things. However today He ask that I take my wife for a walk with me this morning. So my wife and I took a walk and we discussed the question. What we found out was that where two or three are gathered in His name He is there.

Never-the-less, we also found out that He is not her nor is He me. He is the Lord. He might and can walk with us. He is also in our midst when several of us get together in His name, but He is still Him not us. So the words "not necessarily' were brought to us.

That is to say that the statement "Those who choose to participate in this forum are looking for a deeper walk with the Lord through fellowship with His family." is not necessarily true!!!

Are each of us looking to the Lord and listening to Him? Are we saying what He tells us or what we are thinking? And most importantly our relationship with Him should be directly with Him! He might walk in our midst but it is a personal relationship and so a personal fellowship that He is really after! That doesn't mean that we should fellowship with each other. Indeed that should be nice, but we should not necessarily assume that fellowship with other believers is fellowship with Him!!

1 Cor 1:9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

I believe a deeper walk with the Lord is obtain through fellowship with Him. Which does mean I shouldn't fellowship with other believers but we shouldn't necessarily believe the fellowship with others is fellowship with Him or develops a deeper relationship with Him.

My friends, seek Him and listen to Him. --- and I like to hear about your deeper relationship that comes from that. I hope you enjoyed hearing about my deeper relationship with Him that comes about from listening to Him.

 

[Mr. M]

Now, if I talk to my brother I have fellowship with him.

Good Morning K2K, Let's talk, and maybe even fellowship. This will be hard to do in a forum, because simply talking to a brother is not fellowship. Fellowship requires us to be open and honest with one another, especially about our weaknesses and our shortcomings. This requires a lot of trust, but can be accomplished by consistent effort on both parties. Here is an important description of koinonia that will help illustrate the idea. This is how John opens his first letter:
1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, concerning the Word of life— 2 the life was manifested, and we have seen, and bear witness, and declare to you that eternal life which was with the Father and was manifested to us— 3 that which we have seen and heard we declare to you, that you also may have fellowship with us; and truly our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ. 4 And these things we write to you that your joy may be full.
Fellowship with Him and One Another
5 This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

I sincerely apologize if throwing 10 verses of scripture at you seems inappropriate, but this is an essential starting point to transforming mere conversation to fellowship.
James

Footnotes:

 

[GospelS]

Agreed.

I would like to know this:
You as a temple of the Holy Spirit, what would you think that fellowship with another believer who is also a temple of the Holy Spirit will lead to? @K2K

 

[Mr. M]

Agreed.

I would like to know this:
You as a temple of the Holy Spirit, what would you think that fellowship with another believer who is also a temple of the Holy Spirit will lead to?

If you both are not just acknowledging that you are a temple of the Holy Spirit, but abiding in the Presence, then you both will "speak the Truth in Love" towards one another, and grow in your relationship with Christ together.
Ephesians 2:6. and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus.
Ephesians 4:15. But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ.
This letter answers your very excellent question, in a most delightful way..
no
Eph 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
Eph 2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
Eph 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
Eph 4:16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

1 John 1
3 we declare to you what we have seen and heard so that you also may have fellowship with us; and truly our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ.
7 if we walk in the light as He Himself is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.

 

[Mr. M]

1 John 1
3 we declare to you what we have seen and heard so that you also may have fellowship with us; and truly our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ.
7 if we walk in the light as He Himself is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.

See #2 and you will find just how much we are in agreement!

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

See #2 and you will find just how much we are in agreement!

Oh your right, sorry for the repeat ..

 

[Mr. M]

Oh your right, sorry for the repeat ..

LOL, no worries, glad you dropped in. come back and hit us with other koinonia verses!
1 Co. 1:9. God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

The previous outlines to the forum from the one line that was provided by the op are the more important part of what the forum is for...
The Deeper Fellowship forum is a place for members to have peaceful, uplifting, encouraging, and safe interactions with fellow believers. The focus of this forum is on the love of Christ and all that He has done for us, giving us access to the Father through Him as we are guided by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Matthew 18:20

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

LOL, no worries, glad you dropped in. come back and hit us with other koinonia verses!
1 Co. 1:9. God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.

I like this forum, it’s always been a good place. I’m sure I have hundreds of threads buried from the last decade and a half that often keeps me coming back to check on this and that.

 

[K2K]

Good Morning K2K, Let's talk, and maybe even fellowship. This will be hard to do in a forum, because simply talking to a brother is not fellowship. Fellowship requires us to be open and honest with one another, especially about our weaknesses and our shortcomings. This requires a lot of trust, but can be accomplished by consistent effort on both parties. Here is an important description of koinonia that will help illustrate the idea. This is how John opens his first letter:
1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, concerning the Word of life— 2 the life was manifested, and we have seen, and bear witness, and declare to you that eternal life which was with the Father and was manifested to us— 3 that which we have seen and heard we declare to you, that you also may have fellowship with us; and truly our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ. 4 And these things we write to you that your joy may be full.
Fellowship with Him and One Another
5 This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

I sincerely apologize if throwing 10 verses of scripture at you seems inappropriate, but this is an essential starting point to transforming mere conversation to fellowship.
James

Footnotes:

I certainly don't mind the scriptures but that is what someone else wrote, not you or I. Also, the purpose of the scriptures is not that we should know the scriptures but that we should know the Son. Jesus Christ is not scriptures He is a person and like the scriptures you quoted indicate, He is a someone that we can have fellowship with. We can also have fellowship with one another or someone else. But having fellowship with you is not having fellowship with Him. And you quoting someone else without comment from yourself is not us having fellowship.

So you quote a scriptures like "But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin" but that is not your words, so we don't have fellowship unless you have words expressing you thoughts on it. So what does it mean to you, personally?

For me - I find out that when I talk to the Lord I find that He likes relationships. Primarily it is the relationship between Him and I, but He also made man to be in relationships with one another. Those are two different but similar things. A relationship with Him means I listen and converse with Him, which I do. Having a fellowship with one another means I listen and converse with them. It's similar, but talking to Him is not talking, writing back and forth, with you.

In either case I can tell someone else about the personality of the person I have fellowship with. Not that I am an expert on either the Lord or you but you like to quote lots of scriptures even at the expense of not expressing what you are actually thinking. Now He is different. He often refers to scriptures which came about from His conversations with other in the past, but rarely does He actually quote scriptures upon scripture upon scriptures. You could tell that simply by reading the bible, because we have great examples in the bible about how Jesus taught. Do you ever read where He was quoting scripture after scriptures after scripture? No, but He does sometime refer to things written in the Old Testament.

For example:

Jn 5:46, 47 For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for he wrote about Me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?

You can see he referenced the writings but did not quote them. In fact I choose these two verses to point out that His words are not actually the writings of Moses, according to what Jesus Christ said and was recorded with there! There was another reason I used those verses and that was to show that Moses wrote about Him and that it is possible to read the writings of Moses and not to believe them - which is to say you can read the writings of Moses and not believe that the Lord is with you so as to hear His words.

Now in the OP I specifically indicated things He told me today. He specifically had me get my wife to take a walk with me. It is usually just Him and I when I talk that walk and we talk. Perhaps not clear enough, but He specifically brought in the "not necessarily". He specifically told it to my with, then He specifically talked to me to expand it to mean that we could get a word from Him from others but listening to other Christians did not necessarily mean they were listening to Him, then He expanded it to mean that it also did not necessarily mean that I couldn't get a word from Him through the mouth of another Christian.

So as pointed out, another person quoting Moses does not necessarily mean I am getting a word from God. The scriptures I quoted showed the Moses' writings are not the same thing as hearing His words. But then again the Spirit of the Lord could be using them and starting to talk to you about that same topic, so I can't necessarily assume that the Lord couldn't be using them. The answer is gotten from actually listening to Him for yourself! But are we doing that if we are only quoting what others heard???

Jn 5:39 You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.

So there was a problem in the past where Jews were looking to the Scripture and not Him. And it is written that there is nothing new under the sun. So why does a person quote Scripture after Scripture and does have words from the Lord to tell others?

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

The Word, as Christ, when talking to us, plants the seed. Whatever means it comes to the hearer it’s still the Word, in action, and has the ability to grow. The stipulation given to the growth is the condition of the soil. His seed is always the incorruptible seed, but it’s the flesh that has the ability to corrupt it.
For instance there are the pathway people who’s attention and affections are given to other interests that are placed above the love of the Lord. Their emotions are carried away like a bird in flight. Others have no deep roots in the faith so they look at things in intellectual semi-blindness. Or some have their will wrapped up in pride and are always attempting authority over others because of a place of elitism they place themselves at.
So it’s up to the discernment of each believer to rightly divide the Word as it’s presented from others because it’s according to their understanding passed thru many filters. Yours and mine and everyone else.
The Lord’s Word is pure, comes to us pure and then is left for us to walk thru the woods to come to where we can put it into an effective means to convey to others.
Because this is our gathering place we try to make it a place where we can receive edification. Keeping His Word to ourselves isn’t a part of His plan for His church.

 

[Greengardener]

While I've been writing several others have added thoughts so don't anticipate that mine is in order or responsive to prior comments. It's just another way of looking at this.

There is apparently something different from being friendly and fellowshipping. And there seems to be something different from using God's words to try to establish a pecking order of importance (such as am I more important if I think this or that about what God said but you think something else?) than from using God's words to establish both our own thinking and that of our beloved brethren. The Scriptures will always be important to establish WHAT God is about - it's a description of how He sees things and how He wants us to see them. God the Eternal and Jesus the Messiah will always agree on what the message is. This establishment, a plumbline of sorts, keeps us from either distorting or allowing the distortion of the reality of God in our lives, and the reality of our relationship is built on believing what He says and agreeing in our desire to relate with Him.

The religious leaders in Jesus's time missed the mark by thinking it was about what they said, not what they did and about ceremonial observations instead of a heart-deep relationship of ongoing seeking, knocking, asking to draw closer to God. At that point, they became useless for their assigned task, which was to be a light to others that didn't have the Scriptures in their own hands, who needed assistance to judge right from not right, better from worse, in order to align with God's plan. Those religious leaders could only add more weight to them in offering ceremony, not substance. They substituted a line of human reasoning for the direct application of scriptures to situations.

This morning in reading Isaiah 24-28 or thereabouts, after reading, what came to mind was intense to the point of writing it down.

How much more time will you let pass before you heed and do what JHWH said?
When will you start? Will you start today?
Will you humble yourself to walk with JHWH, to walk AS JHWH walks and as He instructs you?
Will you do justly, behave righteously?
Will you speak the truth and agree with what JHWH says is good?
Will you train your mind to avoid, abhor, and refuse what JHWH says is corrupt, evil, and defiling?
Will you come out from among the common world and be separated for JHWH, useful in the life He intends?

Fellowshipping with God and with man is important, but I agree that we probably don't see the degree of fellowship between us and God or between us and other believers like we could/should/would and I appreciate that you started this thread and the comments of others who contribute to fleshing out an understanding of how it impacts them.

 

[K2K]

Good Morning K2K, Let's talk, and maybe even fellowship. This will be hard to do in a forum, because simply talking to a brother is not fellowship. Fellowship requires us to be open and honest with one another, especially about our weaknesses and our shortcomings. This requires a lot of trust, but can be accomplished by consistent effort on both parties. Here is an important description of koinonia that will help illustrate the idea. This is how John opens his first letter:
1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, concerning the Word of life— 2 the life was manifested, and we have seen, and bear witness, and declare to you that eternal life which was with the Father and was manifested to us— 3 that which we have seen and heard we declare to you, that you also may have fellowship with us; and truly our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ. 4 And these things we write to you that your joy may be full.
Fellowship with Him and One Another
5 This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

I sincerely apologize if throwing 10 verses of scripture at you seems inappropriate, but this is an essential starting point to transforming mere conversation to fellowship.
James

Footnotes:

I certainly don't mind the scriptures but that is what someone else wrote, not you or I. Also, the purpose of the scriptures is not that we should know the scriptures but that we should know the Son. Jesus Christ is not scriptures He is a person and like the scriptures you quoted indicate, He is a someone that we can have fellowship with. We can also have fellowship with one another or someone else. But having fellowship with you is not having fellowship with Him. And you quoting someone else without comment from yourself is not us having fellowship.

So you quote a scriptures like "But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin" but that is not your words, so we don't have fellowship unless you have words expressing you thoughts on it. So what does it mean to you, personally?

For me - I find out that when I talk to the Lord I find that He likes relationships. Primarily it is the relationship between Him and I, but He also made man to be in relationships with one another. Those are two different but similar things. A relationship with Him means I listen and converse with Him, which I do. Having a fellowship with one another means I listen and converse with them. It's similar, but talking to Him is not talking, writing back and forth, with you.

In either case I can tell someone else about the personality of the person I have fellowship with. Not that I am an expert on either the Lord or you but you like to quote lots of scriptures even at the expense of not expressing what you are actually thinking. Now He is different. He often refers to scriptures which came about from His conversations with other in the past, but rarely does He actually quote scriptures upon scripture upon scriptures. You could tell that simply by reading the bible, because we have great examples in the bible about how Jesus taught. Do you ever read where He was quoting scripture after scriptures after scripture? No, but He does sometime refer to things written in the Old Testament.

For example:

Jn 5:46, 47 For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for he wrote about Me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?

You can see he referenced the writings but did not quote them. In fact I choose these two verses to point out that His words are not actually the writings of Moses, according to what Jesus Christ said and was recorded with there! There was another reason I used those verses and that was to show that Moses wrote about Him and that it is possible to read the writings of Moses and not to believe them - which is to say you can read the writings of Moses and not believe that the Lord is with you so as to hear His words.

Now in the OP I specifically indicated things He told me today. He specifically had me get my wife to take a walk with me. It is usually just Him and I when I talk that walk and we talk. Perhaps not clear enough, but He specifically brought in the "not necessarily". He specifically told it to my with, then He specifically talked to me to expand it to mean that we could get a word from Him from others but listening to other Christians did not necessarily mean they were listening to Him, then He expanded it to mean that it also did not necessarily mean that I couldn't get a word from Him through the mouth of another Christian.

So as pointed out, another person quoting Moses does not necessarily mean I am getting a word from God. The scriptures I quoted showed the Moses' writings are not the same thing as hearing His words. But then again the Spirit of the Lord could be using them and starting to talk to you about that same topic, so I can't necessarily assume that the Lord couldn't be using them. The answer is gotten from actually listening to Him for yourself! But are we doing that if we are only quoting what others heard???

Jn 5:39 You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.

So there was a problem in the past where Jews were looking to the Scripture and not Him. And it is written that there is nothing new under the sun. So why does a person quote Scripture after Scripture and does have words from the Lord to tell others?

 

[K2K]

Agreed.

I would like to know this:
You as a temple of the Holy Spirit, what would you think that fellowship with another believer who is also a temple of the Holy Spirit will lead to? @K2K

Oh - I love this question!!

If we both have the Holy Spirit in us, and the Holy Spirit does indeed speak to our spirit, and His words are spirit and life, and His sheep do hear His voice, then we obviously should have things we each heard from the Lord which we can share with each other!!!!

Look at this thread, has anyone other than me had something they heard from the Spirit of God directly and written it down here????

There is something about shouting on the house tops what you hear whispered in you ear. So who is shouting or just writing and sharing what they heard form the Lord?

Oh, there are those quoting scripture after scripture, but that was what others heard thousands of years ago! It can be useful but that is not fellowship with them and is certainly not an indication that they have fellowship with the Lord. The Pharisees could quote scriptures. Satan quoted scripture to Jesus. What I would like to talk about it how Jesus talks to you personally. Share that, please. Even agreeing with what I said is not sharing what the Lord is saying to you.

Look, I loved the question. What I would really like know and talk about is what honestly the Lord is doing in the lives of people. Let's fellowship about that. I told others what He did in my life this morning. I explained a teaching that He gave me. I hope people like it, and I thought it interesting, so I shared. And if indeed I am going to fellowship with other believers shouldn't they have things like that.

My friends - what has He taught you? If we all listen to Him, we all have things to share. And if we indeed all have the Holy Spirit in us, then none of us have an excuse for not listening to Him and thus having something to share - and I am not talking about a list of scriptures but I am talking about the purpose of this section of the forum. Sure, include a scriptures but it is about fellowship.

I was a surfer, and if I talked to other surfers we talked about surfing. I am a Christian with the Holy Spirit in me. So I hear form Him and would like to talk about Him.

Here is a parable He gave me - tell me what you think about it?

GENIE IN THE LAMP!

There was this guy stranded on a desert island. It was dark and he was a little cold from the wind coming off the sea. He was groping around in the sand for something to start a fire with so he could get warm and see.

He finds this lamp, and rubbing the lamp.... whooossssshh OUT COMES A GENIE!

Genie... "I am the Genie in the lamp, and I will give you three wishes"

Guy... "Hey man, I don't believe in Genies"

Genie... "I AM, THE GENIE IN THE LAMP, AND I WILL GIVE YOU THREE WISHES!!"

Guy... "I'm sorry man, but I don't believe in Genies."

Genie... "I AM THE GENIE, I can give you great wisdom, or I can give you authority over ALL THE POWERS OF THE WORLD! What is it you want?"

Guy... "Look man, I was just hoping for a little fire."

whooosssshhhh .... the guy is on fire!

Guy... "I'M ON FIRE, I'M ON FIRE... ENOUGH ALREADY!"

the fire goes out

Guy... "Maybe you are a Genie. What was that thing you said? Oh yeah.. great wisdom. GIVE ME GREAT WISDOM"

Genie.... "Believe in Genies."

Guy... "THAT'S IT???"

Genie... "Believing is great wisdom."

Guy... "Ok.. Ok.. what was that other thing? Yeah.. authority over all the powers of the world. GIVE ME AUTHORITY OVER ALL THE POWERS OF THE WORLD!"

whooosssshhhh .... the guy is sucked down into the lamp!

Guy... "HEY.. I'M STUCK IN THE LAMP"

Genie... "YOU ARE NOW A GENIE, AND YOU HAVE AUTHORITY OVER ALL THE POWERS OF THE WORLD!!"

Guy... "Yeah... but I'm going to have to serve anyone who rubs the lamp"

Genie... "That's right."

 

[GospelS]

Can we say that fellowship with other believers will help us inspire and encourage others to draw closer to Christ, if not a deeper walk with the Lord. @K2K

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

K2K what I get from you is nothing. Ever. Just you talking about you. Most people leave others to decipher whether it’s from God or not. I think your making it all up. Unsubscribe.

 

[K2K]

Can we say that fellowship with other believers will help us inspire and encourage others to draw closer to Christ, if not a deeper walk with the Lord. @K2K

Maybe - maybe not. I believe it should but who are the other believers? The Pharisees believed in God, according to them, but Jesus said they did hear His words. What did you think about the parable. Did you take it to the Lord and talk to Him about it?

 

[K2K]

K2K what I get from you is nothing. Ever. Just you talking about you. Most people leave others to decipher whether it’s from God or not. I think your making it all up. Unsubscribe.

When I testify about hearing the Lord is it about me or about the Lord?

Oh - you already said " I think your making it all up."

Jn 3:11 Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know and testify of what we have seen, and you do not accept our testimony.

You don't have to accept my testimony about the Lord Jesus Christ, but you are going to need to seek Him and start listening to what He tells you personally. So perhaps you tell me the parables, sayings, instructions, teaching, and the most common thing He tells you personally? Then we could have fellowship and talk about Him. But if you don't think He talks to anyone ever, then it's going to be hard for me to fellowship with you about a deeper relationship with Him.