We need a mask and wash order, not a stay at home order

KarateCowboy

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So, I went to O'hare last week and picked up someone flying in from Tokyo. Tokyo is a city with a population of ~13 million. For perspective, the state of Illinois has a population of ~12 million.

During her 2.5 week stay she went out to bars, restaurants, on the *packed-like-sardines* JR train lines, and to *Hanami* -- the annual drinking picnics in the parks as the Sakura shed their blossoms. You see: they have yet to close their bars and restaurants.

WHAT? IN A TIME LIKE THIS? THAT'S INSANE!

Wrong.

You see, at this moment, the more-populous-than-Illinois city of Tokyo **plus** the rest of Japan has an out break count lower than *just Cook county* [Source](UPDATED: Coronavirus World Outbreak Map – 2019-nCoV Outbreak Map)

Now, some of you who keep up with the half-truth & lying media may be saying "Ahh, but I read that's because they're not testing so aggressively. Naturally, they will have a low count. So, they're likely super sick, but it's just not being counted"

Wrong again.

You see, Japan has a larger, and older, elderly population than Italy. If it were the case that they were *still catching, just not counting* the massive elderly population would bear no exemption. They would be dropping like flies, their clinics overwhelmed, and the count would skyrocket.

So why can they romp about the bars, go to ramen shops, pack into the subways like sardines in a can, and drink in the park while we red-blooded, freedom-loving Americans cower in fear in our houses? Why can a nation of 160 million, packed in an area the size of California, keep calm and carry on, still having a lower outbreak count than *just Cook county*?

Well, there are a couple popular theories. One is that Japan rejects Western multi-culturalism and, lacking diversity, has an abundance of social cohesion in which everyone has an attitude of being in this together. The "Spirit of Wa", they call it. Another theory is that with weekly and daily earthquakes, twenty some typhoons each Summer, and the constant threat of tsunamis, crisis is a fact of life in Japan and they live in a constant state of preparation.

The theory I find most plausible is that they wear their masks, don't touch their faces (it's inelegant), and they *wash their hands*. I was talking about this, and I learned that in elementary schools in Japan they have hand-stamps that look like a germ or some overly *ka-wa-ii* character. When a child goes to the restroom he gets a stamp on each hand. The stamp is designed to come off after twenty seconds of washing. When they graduate to middle & high school the schools no longer employ janitors. Instead, the students have "cleaning hour". This includes bathroom, cafeteria, and gym facilities. At the entrance of schools they have shoe lockers, where students remove their outdoor shoes and put on indoor-only slippers. I've witnessed paramedics, of habit, slip off their shoes when entering a home solely to carry a man out on a stretcher. If you've spent any time there, you know the Japanese are very clean.

Another possible contributor is being fat puts you at increased weakness against the virus. And while Americans are obscenely over weight, obeisity is virtually non-existent in Japan. While roughly half of Americans are not just overweight, but clinically obeise, about 3% of Japanese are overweight. At 6'3" and 235 lbs, I actually got fat jokes during my last visit there. That's saying something, given be-polite-and-never-offend Japan. If you want an epidemic to worry about, it's the obeisity epidemic.

So yeah. In conclusion, this whole "12 million under house arrest" thing is *waaaaaaay* overblown. IMHO we have a governor using a fancy flu as a pretext to flex his inner Mussolini and put 12 million *cough* freedom-loving Americans under quasi house arrest. Meanwhile, 13 million jam-packed Tokyo-ites are going about business as usual. Because they wash their hands.
 
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SkyWriting

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So, I went to O'hare last week and picked up someone flying in from Tokyo. Tokyo is a city with a population of ~13 million. For perspective, the state of Illinois has a population of ~12 million.

During her 2.5 week stay she went out to bars, restaurants, on the *packed-like-sardines* JR train lines, and to *Hanami* -- the annual drinking picnics in the parks as the Sakura shed their blossoms. You see: they have yet to close their bars and restaurants.

WHAT? IN A TIME LIKE THIS? THAT'S INSANE!

Wrong.

You see, at this moment, the more-populous-than-Illinois city of Tokyo **plus** the rest of Japan has an out break count lower than *just Cook county* [Source](UPDATED: Coronavirus World Outbreak Map – 2019-nCoV Outbreak Map)

Now, some of you who keep up with the half-truth & lying media may be saying "Ahh, but I read that's because they're not testing so aggressively. Naturally, they will have a low count. So, they're likely super sick, but it's just not being counted"

Wrong again.

You see, Japan has a larger, and older, elderly population than Italy. If that were the case then the elderly there would be dropping like flies, their clinics overwhelmed, and the count would skyrocket.

So why can they romp about the bars, go to ramen shops, pack into the subways like sardines in a can, and drink in the park while we red-blooded, freedom-loving Americans cower in fear in our houses? Why can a nation of 160 million, packed in an area the size of California, keep calm and carry on, still having a lower outbreak count than *just Cook county*?

Well, there are a couple popular theories. One is that Japan rejects Western multi-culturalism and, lacking diversity, has an abundance of social cohesion in which everyone has an attitude of being in this together. The "Spirit of Wa", they call it. Another theory is that with weekly and daily earthquakes, twenty some typhoons each Summer, and the constant threat of tsunamis, crisis is a fact of life in Japan and they live in a constant state of preparation.

The theory I find most plausible is that they wear their masks, don't touch their faces (it's inelegant), and they *wash their hands*. I was talking about this, and I learned that in elementary schools in Japan they have hand-stamps that look like a germ or some overly *ka-wa-ii* character. When a child goes to the restroom he gets a stamp on each hand. The stamp is designed to come off after twenty seconds of washing. When they graduate to middle & high school the schools no longer employ janitors. Instead, the students have "cleaning hour". This includes bathroom, cafeteria, and gym facilities. If you've spent any time there, you know the Japanese are very clean.

Another possible contributor is being fat puts you at increased weakness against the virus. And while Americans are obscenely over weight, obeisity is virtually non-existent in Japan. While roughly half of Americans are not just overweight, but clinically obeise, about 3% of Japanese are overweight. At 6'3" and 235 lbs, I actually got fat jokes during my last visit there. That's saying something, given be-polite-and-never-offend Japan. If you want an epidemic to worry about, it's the obeisity epidemic.

So yeah. In conclusion, this whole "12 million under house arrest" thing is *waaaaaaay* overblown. IMHO we have a governor using a fancy flu as a pretext to flex his inner Mussolini and put 12 million *cough* freedom-loving Americans under quasi house arrest. Meanwhile, 13 million jam-packed Tokyo-ites are going about business as usual. Because they wash their hands.

So if you're thinking we would do that to stay safe, you don't know America.
Japan has been through this multiple times already. They have been sifted.


This is where American rubber meets the road:

New York State coronavirus cases hit nearly 60,000, death toll reaches 1,000
By Bernadette Hogan and Aaron Feis March 29, 2020 | 1:12pm
 
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46AND2

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So, I went to O'hare last week and picked up someone flying in from Tokyo. Tokyo is a city with a population of ~13 million. For perspective, the state of Illinois has a population of ~12 million.

During her 2.5 week stay she went out to bars, restaurants, on the *packed-like-sardines* JR train lines, and to *Hanami* -- the annual drinking picnics in the parks as the Sakura shed their blossoms. You see: they have yet to close their bars and restaurants.

WHAT? IN A TIME LIKE THIS? THAT'S INSANE!

Wrong.

You see, at this moment, the more-populous-than-Illinois city of Tokyo **plus** the rest of Japan has an out break count lower than *just Cook county* [Source](UPDATED: Coronavirus World Outbreak Map – 2019-nCoV Outbreak Map)

Now, some of you who keep up with the half-truth & lying media may be saying "Ahh, but I read that's because they're not testing so aggressively. Naturally, they will have a low count. So, they're likely super sick, but it's just not being counted"

Wrong again.

You see, Japan has a larger, and older, elderly population than Italy. If that were the case then the elderly there would be dropping like flies, their clinics overwhelmed, and the count would skyrocket.

So why can they romp about the bars, go to ramen shops, pack into the subways like sardines in a can, and drink in the park while we red-blooded, freedom-loving Americans cower in fear in our houses? Why can a nation of 160 million, packed in an area the size of California, keep calm and carry on, still having a lower outbreak count than *just Cook county*?

Well, there are a couple popular theories. One is that Japan rejects Western multi-culturalism and, lacking diversity, has an abundance of social cohesion in which everyone has an attitude of being in this together. The "Spirit of Wa", they call it. Another theory is that with weekly and daily earthquakes, twenty some typhoons each Summer, and the constant threat of tsunamis, crisis is a fact of life in Japan and they live in a constant state of preparation.

The theory I find most plausible is that they wear their masks, don't touch their faces (it's inelegant), and they *wash their hands*. I was talking about this, and I learned that in elementary schools in Japan they have hand-stamps that look like a germ or some overly *ka-wa-ii* character. When a child goes to the restroom he gets a stamp on each hand. The stamp is designed to come off after twenty seconds of washing. When they graduate to middle & high school the schools no longer employ janitors. Instead, the students have "cleaning hour". This includes bathroom, cafeteria, and gym facilities. If you've spent any time there, you know the Japanese are very clean.

Another possible contributor is being fat puts you at increased weakness against the virus. And while Americans are obscenely over weight, obeisity is virtually non-existent in Japan. While roughly half of Americans are not just overweight, but clinically obeise, about 3% of Japanese are overweight. At 6'3" and 235 lbs, I actually got fat jokes during my last visit there. That's saying something, given be-polite-and-never-offend Japan. If you want an epidemic to worry about, it's the obeisity epidemic.

So yeah. In conclusion, this whole "12 million under house arrest" thing is *waaaaaaay* overblown. IMHO we have a governor using a fancy flu as a pretext to flex his inner Mussolini and put 12 million *cough* freedom-loving Americans under quasi house arrest. Meanwhile, 13 million jam-packed Tokyo-ites are going about business as usual. Because they wash their hands.

Sure. Because limiting your contact with potentially infected people couldn't possibly help the situation. :doh:
 
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KarateCowboy

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Sure. Because limiting your contact with potentially infected people couldn't possibly help the situation. :doh:
You obviously didn't read what I wrote, as the numbers disagree with your sentiment.
 
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KarateCowboy

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So if you're thinking we would do that to stay safe, you don't know America.
Given how quickly all these freedom loving Americans have surrendered their essential liberty for a little temporary security .... from the flu ... I am, in fact, questioning how well I know my nation. At the same time: if they are so obedient, then why would they not obey implementing similar changes?
 
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46AND2

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You obviously didn't read what I wrote, as the numbers disagree with your sentiment.

I read your anecdote. I remain unimpressed. It's patently obvious that if you don't hang around sick people, you won't get what they have.

And we HAVE been pushing better hygiene. Not sure why you think that hasn't also been one of the implemented measures.
 
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KarateCowboy

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Your information is out of date. Tokyo is no longer going about business as usual. They did have a partial shutdown this past weekend and it's entirely possible that things are going to get uglier there going forward: In pictures: First weekend of Tokyo shutdown to stem coronavirus

Thank you for that. I wrote the essay Friday and just now posted it here.

That said, Japan has an outbreak to population of about 1 in 67000, whereas Cook County, Illinois, of about 1 in 2000. So, the point still stands that we all, and officials especially, are dramatically undervaluing the importance of simple hygienic matters.

(source Always Up To Date Coronavirus World Outbreak Map – 2019-nCoV Outbreak Map)
 
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KarateCowboy

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I read your anecdote. I remain unimpressed. It's patently obvious that if you don't hang around sick people, you won't get what they have.

And we HAVE been pushing better hygiene. Not sure why you think that hasn't also been one of the implemented measures.

As I said, you haven't read what I wrote. Even in Japan those tested positive and those exposed to them are being quarantined, so it's not a matter of refraining from being around sick people. It's about eliminating the sickness and preventing the spread before you develop symptoms. Or even after you develop symptoms but are still able to go about business, in the case of regular germs and bugs.
 
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KarateCowboy

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I know of more than one who snaps the seat belt together before they sit in the seat so the dinger inside the dash doesn't bug them. Heaven forbid they should actually wear the thing. And you want them to do what ?

Use your head about this one:

What's more extreme? Staying at home and destroying your finances and life, or wearing a mask, similar to a scarf during Winter, plus washing your hands. If they can do the former then they certainly can do the latter.
 
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SkyWriting

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Given how quickly all these freedom loving Americans have surrendered their essential liberty for a little temporary security .... from the flu ... I am, in fact, questioning how well I know my nation. At the same time: if they are so obedient, then why would they not obey implementing similar changes?
I'm explaining we are not compliant. MOST companies are doing cartwheels to qualify as "critical" wherever possible. I had chills and aches and stayed home for two days. My boss called me at home the second day to see if I would work on overtime day, Friday. And it wasn't my income he was concerned about.
 
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Well, I always thought it kind of ridiculous they told us NOT to wear masks unless we're sick. If people are possibly asymptomatic and can still spread the virus, then that advice is VERY poor. We should all be wearing masks for two weeks because no one really knows who's a carrier and who's not.

I understand not using up supplies the medical staff need, but if you've got a mask already, why not wear it? :scratch:
 
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KarateCowboy

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I'm explaining we are not compliant.
Maybe things are different by you. The trip to O'Hare was a breeze last week. I-90 was more quiet than some of the Wisconsin state highways in the countryside when I grew up.
 
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KarateCowboy

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Well, I always thought it kind of ridiculous they told us NOT to wear masks unless we're sick. If people are possibly asymptomatic and can still spread the virus, then that advice is VERY poor. We should all be wearing masks for two weeks because no one really knows who's a carrier and who's not.

I understand not using up supplies the medical staff need, but if you've got a mask already, why not wear it? :scratch:
Agreed. And, you can make your own out of a hanky and a shoelace. It's common practice in Ol' Nippon.

There have been some documentaries about American doctors and their own reluctance to wash their hands throughout the work day. It's rather mortifying.
 
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Use your head about this one:

What's more extreme? Staying at home and destroying your finances and life, or wearing a mask, similar to a scarf during Winter, plus washing your hands. If they can do the former then they certainly can do the latter.
Ya, except I wasn't talking about me . I wore a seat belt before it became mandatory.
 
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46AND2

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Well, I always thought it kind of ridiculous they told us NOT to wear masks unless we're sick. If people are possibly asymptomatic and can still spread the virus, then that advice is VERY poor. We should all be wearing masks for two weeks because no one really knows who's a carrier and who's not.

I understand not using up supplies the medical staff need, but if you've got a mask already, why not wear it? :scratch:

It's precisely because of using up medical supplies. My roommate is a nurse, and they've been stitching together cloth masks because there aren't enough in supply.

Secondly, it's not entirely effective. The virus is smaller than the masks protect against. It might reduce the chances by some percentage, but it certainly is not prophylactic.

If you isolate yourself instead, you could donate the mask you have to the medical community, could you not?
 
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46AND2

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As I said, you haven't read what I wrote. Even in Japan those tested positive and those exposed to them are being quarantined, so it's not a matter of refraining from being around sick people. It's about eliminating the sickness and preventing the spread before you develop symptoms. Or even after you develop symptoms but are still able to go about business, in the case of regular germs and bugs.

Yes, I did read what you wrote. You wrote an ANECDOTE. Your personal experience does not trump blind data.

The virus is still in early phases. What happens when, as another poster has mentioned has already begun, your anecdote represents the exception rather than the rule? There are lots of reasons why Illinois could be further along in confirmed cases than Japan. Doesn't mean Japan won't catch up. Revisit your post in a month or two, see how Japan is faring then...
 
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KarateCowboy

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It's precisely because of using up medical supplies. My roommate is a nurse, and they've been stitching together cloth masks because there aren't enough in supply.

Secondly, it's not entirely effective. The virus is smaller than the masks protect against. It might reduce the chances by some percentage, but it certainly is not prophylactic.

If you isolate yourself instead, you could donate the mask you have to the medical community, could you not?

Contrary to popular belief, the Japanese wear masks as much to protect others as themselves. This is something Western doctors do not understand.

If I wear a mask it may not protect me much from a virus I don't have. However, it will certainly protect dozens or even hundreds around me if I contract it and do not yet have symptoms.

Then there is the game washing and other stuff I mentioned. Apparently you didn't read those.

As of now the solution is doing more damage than the problem
 
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So, I went to O'hare last week and picked up someone flying in from Tokyo. Tokyo is a city with a population of ~13 million. For perspective, the state of Illinois has a population of ~12 million.

During her 2.5 week stay she went out to bars, restaurants, on the *packed-like-sardines* JR train lines, and to *Hanami* -- the annual drinking picnics in the parks as the Sakura shed their blossoms. You see: they have yet to close their bars and restaurants.

WHAT? IN A TIME LIKE THIS? THAT'S INSANE!

Wrong.

You see, at this moment, the more-populous-than-Illinois city of Tokyo **plus** the rest of Japan has an out break count lower than *just Cook county* [Source](UPDATED: Coronavirus World Outbreak Map – 2019-nCoV Outbreak Map)

Now, some of you who keep up with the half-truth & lying media may be saying "Ahh, but I read that's because they're not testing so aggressively. Naturally, they will have a low count. So, they're likely super sick, but it's just not being counted"

Wrong again.

You see, Japan has a larger, and older, elderly population than Italy. If it were the case that they were *still catching, just not counting* the massive elderly population would bear no exemption. They would be dropping like flies, their clinics overwhelmed, and the count would skyrocket.

So why can they romp about the bars, go to ramen shops, pack into the subways like sardines in a can, and drink in the park while we red-blooded, freedom-loving Americans cower in fear in our houses? Why can a nation of 160 million, packed in an area the size of California, keep calm and carry on, still having a lower outbreak count than *just Cook county*?

Well, there are a couple popular theories. One is that Japan rejects Western multi-culturalism and, lacking diversity, has an abundance of social cohesion in which everyone has an attitude of being in this together. The "Spirit of Wa", they call it. Another theory is that with weekly and daily earthquakes, twenty some typhoons each Summer, and the constant threat of tsunamis, crisis is a fact of life in Japan and they live in a constant state of preparation.

The theory I find most plausible is that they wear their masks, don't touch their faces (it's inelegant), and they *wash their hands*. I was talking about this, and I learned that in elementary schools in Japan they have hand-stamps that look like a germ or some overly *ka-wa-ii* character. When a child goes to the restroom he gets a stamp on each hand. The stamp is designed to come off after twenty seconds of washing. When they graduate to middle & high school the schools no longer employ janitors. Instead, the students have "cleaning hour". This includes bathroom, cafeteria, and gym facilities. At the entrance of schools they have shoe lockers, where students remove their outdoor shoes and put on indoor-only slippers. I've witnessed paramedics, of habit, slip off their shoes when entering a home solely to carry a man out on a stretcher. If you've spent any time there, you know the Japanese are very clean.

Another possible contributor is being fat puts you at increased weakness against the virus. And while Americans are obscenely over weight, obeisity is virtually non-existent in Japan. While roughly half of Americans are not just overweight, but clinically obeise, about 3% of Japanese are overweight. At 6'3" and 235 lbs, I actually got fat jokes during my last visit there. That's saying something, given be-polite-and-never-offend Japan. If you want an epidemic to worry about, it's the obeisity epidemic.

So yeah. In conclusion, this whole "12 million under house arrest" thing is *waaaaaaay* overblown. IMHO we have a governor using a fancy flu as a pretext to flex his inner Mussolini and put 12 million *cough* freedom-loving Americans under quasi house arrest. Meanwhile, 13 million jam-packed Tokyo-ites are going about business as usual. Because they wash their hands.


You just laid out the cultural advantages the Japanese have and then suggest American shelter in place directives are wrong?
 
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