Beware of Pre-Tribbers Doomsday Hype

[civilwarbuff]

All of that can be seen in Scripture.

And rapturists make the same claim.....as do OSAS and NOSAS positions....it all boils down to a matter of interpretation. Nothing in scripture definitively supports one view over the the other.....

 

[JacksBratt]

I'm not asking for the word "rapture" to be found in the Bible. I'm asking for the idea behind it to be found.

Scripture does say there is one God, and it further states that the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, and that these three are distinct. All of that can be seen in Scripture.

I'm simply asking for something, anything, that actually says what Rapturists say.

-CryptoLutheran

There is not one verse or scripture that states it any better than the one posted in post #72.

However.. if someone wrote a book and it described block of rock.. and in chapter one it told you how long it was... and later.. in chapter 4 it told you how tall it was... then later still near the end.. it told you how wide it was... you would be able to state the dimensions of the block of rock by compiling all of the information.

Christ said that He would never leave us or forsake us.

When He went to heaven, he sent the comforter... Holy Spirit.

When the tribulation comes, the "one who restrains" will be removed.

I believe that this is the Holy Spirit. He is the comforter and the "one who restrains" He is why evil has always been defeated.. right up and including the Nazi Blitzkrieg of WWII...

When the Holy Spirit is removed, Christ would be leaving us alone, forsaking us.. if He did not bring His bride, His body, His church... out of the tribulation..

Then, with the Holy Spirit gone and the body of Christ.. the bride.. also absent... then evil has none or very little resistance.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Here are two.
John 14 King James Version (KJV)
14 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

And where is the part where it says Jesus will bring Christians to heaven to escape tribulation?

Rev. 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

Did the Christians living in Philadelphia get raptured already?

"And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write: 'The words of the holy one, the true one, who has the key of David, who opens and no one will shut, who shuts and no one opens. I know your works. Behold, I have set before you an open door which no one is able to shut. I know that you have but little power, and yet you have kept my word and have not denied my name. Behold, I will make those of the synagogue of Satan who say they are Jews and are not, but lie--behold, I will make them come and bow down before your feet, and they will learn that I have loved you. Because you have kept my word about patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world, to those who dwell on the earth. I am coming soon. Hold fast what you have, so that no one may seize your crown. The one who conquers, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God. Never shall he go out of it, and I will write on him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down from my God out of heaven, and my own new name. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.'" - Revelation 3:7-13

-CryptoLutheran

 

[SeventyOne]

Looking forward to watching it later

What's even odder, as I've been sitting here today working from home, I've had at least 4 new items on my timeline concerning the rapture and/or the Second Coming. It seems to be on everyone's mind these days.

 

[ViaCrucis]

You asked and I provided. I was genuinely curious if you would spend time really looking at these passages or not. I have my answer.

Sorry, I'm not a mind reader.

You can't just post a random passage of Scripture that literally doesn't say anything about Jesus taking Christians into heaven, and then get mad because someone doesn't see what you think you see there.

My request was genuine, and not some trick. I'm not playing any games here. I'm trying to get you, and others, to actually look at what the Scriptures say, and not just what you think they SHOULD say.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[civilwarbuff]

What's even odder, as I've been sitting here today working from home, I've had at least 4 new items on my timeline concerning the rapture and/or the Second Coming. It seems to be on everyone's mind these days.

No doubt the same has happened throughout history....I am not quite ready to start scanning the heavens yet......

 

[SeventyOne]

Sorry, I'm not a mind reader.

You can't just post a random passage of Scripture that literally doesn't say anything about Jesus taking Christians into heaven, and then get mad because someone doesn't see what you think you see there.

My request was genuine, and not some trick. I'm not playing any games here. I'm trying to get you, and others, to actually look at what the Scriptures say, and not just what you think they SHOULD say.

-CryptoLutheran

Random? Hardly random. These passages correlate with each other concerning laying out the timing of the rapture, in relation to other prophecied events. Other people provided scripture dealing with the details of that event, specifically Jesus is the one coming and doing the taking.

Take a step back and look at it all as a whole. As long as you have your myopic knee-jerk reactions, with zero study and contemplation or prayer concerning the whole of the parts, you will continue to not understand. Sorry, I can't give you actual understanding. I'm not the source of that.

 

[civilwarbuff]

However.. if someone wrote a book and it described block of rock.. and in chapter one it told you how long it was... and later.. in chapter 4 it told you how tall it was... then later still near the end.. it told you how wide it was... you would be able to state the dimensions of the block of rock by compiling all of the information.

Christ said that He would never leave us or forsake us.

When He went to heaven, he sent the comforter... Holy Spirit.

When the tribulation comes, the "one who restrains" will be removed.

I believe that this is the Holy Spirit. He is the comforter and the "one who restrains" He is why evil has always been defeated.. right up and including the Nazi Blitzkrieg of WWII...

When the Holy Spirit is removed, Christ would be leaving us alone, forsaking us.. if He did not bring His bride, His body, His church... out of the tribulation..

Then, with the Holy Spirit gone and the body of Christ.. the bride.. also absent... then evil has none or very little resistance.

That is not an extreme position; it makes as much sense as 'connecting the dots' in the bible to arrive at a Trinity which, for the record, is something I agree with......

 

[SeventyOne]

No doubt the same has happened throughout history....I am not quite ready to start scanning the heavens yet......

It's time to get ready.

 

[civilwarbuff]

As long as you have your myopic knee-jerk reactions, with zero study and contemplation or prayer concerning the whole of the parts, you will continue to not understand.

Might want to back up on that; @ViaCrucis cannot be described by any of that.......

 

[JacksBratt]

That is not an extreme position; it makes as much sense as 'connecting the dots' in the bible to arrive at a Trinity which, for the record, is something I agree with......

Many things in the bible are a collection of data from various parts of His word... for those that take the time, they are rewarded with wisdom and knowledge of things others don't grasp.

 

[ViaCrucis]

There is not one verse or scripture that states it any better than the one posted in post #72.

In John ch. 14 Jesus promises His disciples that they have a place with Him in the Father's house. Is that promise not for Peter, James, John et al? Did not the Lord promise them that they would be where He is? Jesus' promise is that where He is we shall be also. That promise was made to the Apostles, and through them also to all of us. Which is why we can trust that we will be with the Lord.

But no mention is made whatsoever of Jesus taking Christians into heaven to escape tribulation. Again, that is what I was asking for. Not Scripture that says we will be with the Lord, of course we will be with the Lord. Not Scripture that says the dead will rise, because of course the dead will rise.

Further, in the Revelation, the promise is made to Christians living in the ancient city of Philadelphia. Or are we going to pretend it's not? When the text very explicitly says, "to the angel of the church in Philadelphia" are we going to pretend it doesn't say that?

However.. if someone wrote a book and it described block of rock.. and in chapter one it told you how long it was... and later.. in chapter 4 it told you how tall it was... then later still near the end.. it told you how wide it was... you would be able to state the dimensions of the block of rock by compiling all of the information.

Christ said that He would never leave us or forsake us.

When He went to heaven, he sent the comforter... Holy Spirit.

When the tribulation comes, the "one who restrains" will be removed.

I believe that this is the Holy Spirit. He is the comforter and the "one who restrains" He is why evil has always been defeated.. right up and including the Nazi Blitzkrieg of WWII...

When the Holy Spirit is removed, Christ would be leaving us alone, forsaking us.. if He did not bring His bride, His body, His church... out of the tribulation..

Then, with the Holy Spirit gone and the body of Christ.. the bride.. also absent... then evil has none or very little resistance.

Why would you believe the Holy Spirit will be removed? Even if one assumes the whole Left Behind narrative as true, does God just simply abandon all during the tribulation? Are there not people who belong to God? Does it not refer to those who have been sealed?

So Christ WILL leave some and forsake some. He will forsake and abandon all left behind--even those who would come to believe in Him during that time?

How on earth does any of that square with the Gospel?

-CryptoLutheran

 

[com7fy8]

one place that actually says Jesus comes to take Christians into heaven to escape tribulation. That's it. Just one.

I have believed pre-trib; and I admit I have not found a scripture which directly says Jesus will rapture His church immediately before the tribulation. But I have found where Jesus Himself says His angels will gather His "elect" "immediately after" > Matthew 24. Ones who claim pre-trib do use scripture, though, but no scripture directly says what their interpretations say.

And the New Covenant contains various plain and clear statements of our covenant with God, but there is not plain clear statement guaranteeing anything like > "Jesus will return before the tribulation and take/resurrect/rapture His church." So, pre-trib is not a clear guarantee stated in our New Covenant, not that I can quote in plain simple words.

But I do trust that God does things not stated in plain words of the New Covenant.

 

[SeventyOne]

Might want to back up on that; @ViaCrucis cannot be described by any of that.......

That's all I'm seeing on this thread. Every response to the scripture posted is virtually instantaneous and the response shows a lack of understanding concerning what is written. I'll back off on it once I have a reason to do so.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

And where is the part where it says Jesus will bring Christians to heaven to escape tribulation?



Did the Christians living in Philadelphia get raptured already?

"And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write: 'The words of the holy one, the true one, who has the key of David, who opens and no one will shut, who shuts and no one opens. I know your works. Behold, I have set before you an open door which no one is able to shut. I know that you have but little power, and yet you have kept my word and have not denied my name. Behold, I will make those of the synagogue of Satan who say they are Jews and are not, but lie--behold, I will make them come and bow down before your feet, and they will learn that I have loved you. Because you have kept my word about patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world, to those who dwell on the earth. I am coming soon. Hold fast what you have, so that no one may seize your crown. The one who conquers, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God. Never shall he go out of it, and I will write on him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down from my God out of heaven, and my own new name. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.'" - Revelation 3:7-13

-CryptoLutheran

They will be.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 King James Version (KJV)
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

 

[Josheb]

Beware of Pre-Tribber's Doomsday Hype

Davy, meet Done222

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

[QUOTE
Davy said: ↑
Beware of Pre-Tribber's Doomsday Hype

][/QUOTE]

I am curious. Why is it doomsday for you? It is Oh happy day for pre-trib people.

 

[Jipsah]

All I remember about the film "Left Behind" was the dreadful acting.

The theology was even worse.

 

[Jipsah]

F.Y.I. Brother Tim LaHaye is dead. May he rest in peace.

Didn't really matter to him when the Lord returns, did it? He's already gone on to his reward.

 

[Jipsah]

It will likely take that long for the earth to be restored to an Eden-like condition in preparation for the millions that will come up later.

Why? It only took God a week to create the whole shootin' match.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

They will be.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 King James Version (KJV)
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

These verses refer to the second coming of Jesus after the tribulation (seven last plagues).

When this happens the righteous that are alive and the resurrected righteous will go up to Jesus in the cloud and evil multitude will be put to death by the glory of the Lord. No one left on this planet except satan and his evil angels.