Bible preferences and a few questions

[Littlek]

I know this is more of a personal preference, but I am looking for the best English translation as close to the original words as I can get.

This is my understanding, and please correct me if I’m wrong. The first written word, (Old Testament, also the Torah?) were the Dead Sea scrolls, written in ancient Hebrew. (Which is more or less symbols, I think) then the next was modern Hebrew? Do we know when the first English translation of the modern Hebrew word?

So the first written languages (Hebrew)from what I understand didn’t have vowels, but they spoke with vowel sounds? I have researched languages a little bit, but wow, so much to learn. I couldn’t wrap my head around it lol. Esp translating to another language.

Right now I have a KJV (women’s study, newer version, so probably not the best)..the NIV 2005 version.
I went out and bought the Interlinear Bible, Hebrew/Greek/English with the new expanded strongs dictionary...and out of curiosity I bought the 1611 KJV. I feel like maybe the modern Hebrew is the best one to read?

So, this is my hang up...I know there have been changes probably over thousands of years. If satan, and I believe there is one verse that says he will deceive all, except for the most elite, if it were possible? has ever had someone change things intentionally? Jesus did say if anyone takes or adds changes to this book he will add plagues etc. So does this mean it IS/WAS possible for someone to do that? Because he did warn against it...so that makes me think, it could be altered without God stopping it, but send plagues? Sorry just trying to understand.

And not stepping on anyone’s beliefs..but i do not want anything related to or written from the Roman Catholic Church...I know they made changes too..that’s why I question some of the KJV. BUT that is another post for Christianity history. It is so much to dig through...to me you have to study the Bible AND history, people, which piles up to the heavens with information lol.

Thanks for your advice. I really want to study Christian history too..but that’s another thread.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Bible and concordance to trace word studies as they come to mind is probably the most effective and least confusing method. Strong’s with KJV is not the only alternative.
Why I would recommend word studies is because it helps to maintain a personal interest. Words have history that when used in the first sense establishes the meaning (seeds) traceable from Genesis then follow that thru to Revelation and it will establish the true meaning and what it represents from seed to maturity.
Many word studies produce a wider picture etc.
I hope that helps

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I know this is more of a personal preference, but I am looking for the best English translation as close to the original words as I can get.

This is my understanding, and please correct me if I’m wrong. The first written word, (Old Testament, also the Torah?) were the Dead Sea scrolls, written in ancient Hebrew. (Which is more or less symbols, I think) then the next was modern Hebrew? Do we know when the first English translation of the modern Hebrew word?

So the first written languages (Hebrew)from what I understand didn’t have vowels, but they spoke with vowel sounds? I have researched languages a little bit, but wow, so much to learn. I couldn’t wrap my head around it lol. Esp translating to another language.

Right now I have a KJV (women’s study, newer version, so probably not the best)..the NIV 2005 version.
I went out and bought the Interlinear Bible, Hebrew/Greek/English with the new expanded strongs dictionary...and out of curiosity I bought the 1611 KJV. I feel like maybe the modern Hebrew is the best one to read?

So, this is my hang up...I know there have been changes probably over thousands of years. If satan, and I believe there is one verse that says he will deceive all, except for the most elite, if it were possible? has ever had someone change things intentionally? Jesus did say if anyone takes or adds changes to this book he will add plagues etc. So does this mean it IS/WAS possible for someone to do that? Because he did warn against it...so that makes me think, it could be altered without God stopping it, but send plagues? Sorry just trying to understand.

And not stepping on anyone’s beliefs..but i do not want anything related to or written from the Roman Catholic Church...I know they made changes too..that’s why I question some of the KJV. BUT that is another post for Christianity history. It is so much to dig through...to me you have to study the Bible AND history, people, which piles up to the heavens with information lol.

Thanks for your advice. I really want to study Christian history too..but that’s another thread.

Here is a thread I created as to why I believe the King James is the divinely inspired Word of God for our day.

Reasons why I believe the KJV is the divinely inspired perfect Word of God.

Also, there is a website that is heavily against Catholicism, and they strongly believe the King James is the perfect Word of God for our day. They are Chick.com (Chick Publications). They have lots of resources on their website on both topics.

One book I would recommend checking out that convinced me was New Age Bible Versions.

https://www.amazon.com/New-Age-Bible-Versions-Documentation/dp/0963584502/

You can pick it up used at Amazon for about 12 bucks + shipping; Or you can ask your library to see if they can acquire the book for you to check out.

 

[Davy]

I know this is more of a personal preference, but I am looking for the best English translation as close to the original words as I can get.

This is my understanding, and please correct me if I’m wrong. The first written word, (Old Testament, also the Torah?) were the Dead Sea scrolls, written in ancient Hebrew. (Which is more or less symbols, I think) then the next was modern Hebrew? Do we know when the first English translation of the modern Hebrew word?

So the first written languages (Hebrew)from what I understand didn’t have vowels, but they spoke with vowel sounds? I have researched languages a little bit, but wow, so much to learn. I couldn’t wrap my head around it lol. Esp translating to another language.

Right now I have a KJV (women’s study, newer version, so probably not the best)..the NIV 2005 version.
I went out and bought the Interlinear Bible, Hebrew/Greek/English with the new expanded strongs dictionary...and out of curiosity I bought the 1611 KJV. I feel like maybe the modern Hebrew is the best one to read?

So, this is my hang up...I know there have been changes probably over thousands of years. If satan, and I believe there is one verse that says he will deceive all, except for the most elite, if it were possible? has ever had someone change things intentionally? Jesus did say if anyone takes or adds changes to this book he will add plagues etc. So does this mean it IS/WAS possible for someone to do that? Because he did warn against it...so that makes me think, it could be altered without God stopping it, but send plagues? Sorry just trying to understand.

And not stepping on anyone’s beliefs..but i do not want anything related to or written from the Roman Catholic Church...I know they made changes too..that’s why I question some of the KJV. BUT that is another post for Christianity history. It is so much to dig through...to me you have to study the Bible AND history, people, which piles up to the heavens with information lol.

Thanks for your advice. I really want to study Christian history too..but that’s another thread.

For what it's worth...

I don't recommend a Strong's edition after 1991. Have 'they' tried to change even works like the Strong's Concordance? Yes, there's even half versions one can buy that don't have the Strong's definitions in it. And how can an 'updated' Strong's happen when Dr. James Strong who wrote it died in 1894?

I strongly recommend a 1611 KJV Bible, simply because a lot of the scholarly study tools are based from that version, like the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance.

Another tool is the The Treasury of Scripture Knowledge. What it does is gives you a topical cross-reference. For a topic in one Scripture, it will give you references to other Bible Scriptures speaking of that same topic.

The Englishman's Concordance is another good tool. If you know the Strong's no. for a word or phrase, it will will show you all the places in the KJV where that word was used, i.e., showing how it was translated into the KJV English.

A Brown-Drive & Briggs Hebrew Lexicon is good for OT names and places. A Thayer's for NT names and places.

Those are some of the best Bible study tools in my opinion. You can get all of them, and more, in Bible software by BibleSoft. This software will include many different Bible versions also, so you can cross-reference them also.

 

[Littlek]

Bible and concordance to trace word studies as they come to mind is probably the most effective and least confusing method. Strong’s with KJV is not the only alternative.
Why I would recommend word studies is because it helps to maintain a personal interest. Words have history that when used in the first sense establishes the meaning (seeds) traceable from Genesis then follow that thru to Revelation and it will establish the true meaning and what it represents from seed to maturity.
Many word studies produce a wider picture etc.
I hope that helps

Yes, it does help, I do believe in studying the words. The newer bible I bought is KJV, but right beside the Hebrew scripture. So I do follow along with that. Not sure about all the other versions. It is going to take me forever to study lol plus I have Lyme/fibromyalgia, so my memory is not great.
Thanks for your help!

 

[Dave G.]

Your best bet is to just get a bible known to be a good translation ( in English non are perfect), then when in doubt on certain words check those words in a concordance. Some newer translations were done simply to correct clunky passages of an older version and where two or three meanings could apply in English. English is difficult to translate to. Words like hate for instant have an intent attached to them and depending on the intent coming out of the original language the word could mean to literally hate, to love less or to be loveless. Which one would you pick ? Strong's concordance attempts to iron that out and as in the case of God hating Esau we know two brothers were involved and God hated Esau according to the KJV for instance. But did He ? It's against Gods nature to hate, so Strong's suggests a better translation would be from the choices that could be used, He loved Esau less, so when you read in Strongs about that passage you will find that underlined in red as a more likely translation. And this is how it was used in bible college fwiw. They use the KJV there and point out out where some passages do have possible other words that could have been used in translation. So don't toss your KJV if you like it !!!

You own a KJV, the NKJV addresses some passages that don't really read true in the KJV and they smoothed the English out by modernizing it. In old English some meanings can get reversed simply by means of how old English reads ( no intent to be reversed), so they corrected that in the NKJV. By the way, they still didn't address God hated Esau lol !

You own a 2005 NIV but earlier versions are free of an agenda that came into play in later versions that removed a few verses ( you can do your own online search to find where and what). I love how the NIV reads but if to own one it would be 1984 or older, preferably 1978 that didn't lose certain passages.

The ESV and NAS and NASB are quite accurate. None the less, the bible you read most but feel free to check back to the original is probably your best bet. The approved Catholic bible doesn't read so different from any protestant bible but they kept the books of the Apocrypha, saying they are inspired. Both Jews and Protestants for the most part reject the Apocrypha as not being inspired. That's the main difference in context.

Wow, that was a lot of words to say so little.

 

[Littlek]

Here is a thread I created as to why I believe the King James is the divinely inspired Word of God for our day.

Reasons why I believe the KJV is the divinely inspired perfect Word of God.

Also, there is a website that is heavily against Catholicism, and they strongly believe the King James is the perfect Word of God for our day. They are Chick.com (Chick Publications). They have lots of resources on their website on both topics.

One book I would recommend checking out that convinced me was New Age Bible Versions.

https://www.amazon.com/New-Age-Bible-Versions-Documentation/dp/0963584502/

You can pick it up used at Amazon for about 12 bucks + shipping; Or you can ask your library to see if they can acquire the book for you to check out.

Thanks! I will check those out.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Yes, it does help, I do believe in studying the words. The newer bible I bought is KJV, but right beside the Hebrew scripture. So I do follow along with that. Not sure about all the other versions. It is going to take me forever to study lol plus I have Lyme/fibromyalgia, so my memory is not great.
Thanks for your help!

Your welcome. Just to be a bit clearer on your op, you said:

The first written word, (Old Testament, also the Torah?) were the Dead Sea scrolls, written in ancient Hebrew. (Which is more or less symbols, I think) then the next was modern Hebrew? Do we know when the first English translation of the modern Hebrew word?​

The torah is the first 5 books of the bible, the Dead Sea Scrolls {exact copies to Isaiah were found) were written by the Essenes during the time of Christ but were opposed to the temple.
Hebrew studies in the ancient pictorial language is fascinating too. I don’t know when the first translation of Hebrew to English was, but there is a bible with Arabaic language into English that was the language that Jesus spoke. It has a few oddities like instead of “rise on wings like eagles” it says dove.
But all study is interesting when the heart is set rather than the mind. (I try not to over analys anything)

 

[Littlek]

For what it's worth...

I don't recommend a Strong's edition after 1991. Have 'they' tried to change even works like the Strong's Concordance? Yes, there's even half versions one can buy that don't have the Strong's definitions in it. And how can an 'updated' Strong's happen when Dr. James Strong who wrote it died in 1894?

I strongly recommend a 1611 KJV Bible, simply because a lot of the scholarly study tools are based from that version, like the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance.

Another tool is the The Treasury of Scripture Knowledge. What it does is gives you a topical cross-reference. For a topic in one Scripture, it will give you references to other Bible Scriptures speaking of that same topic.

The Englishman's Concordance is another good tool. If you know the Strong's no. for a word or phrase, it will will show you all the places in the KJV where that word was used, i.e., showing how it was translated into the KJV English.

A Brown-Drive & Briggs Hebrew Lexicon is good for OT names and places. A Thayer's for NT names and places.

Those are some of the best Bible study tools in my opinion. You can get all of them, and more, in Bible software by BibleSoft. This software will include many different Bible versions also, so you can cross-reference them also.

Thanks so much! I need to write all of this down lol. I’m sure I could find some books on EBay that are older too.

 

[Littlek]

Your welcome. Just to be a bit clearer on your op, you said:

The first written word, (Old Testament, also the Torah?) were the Dead Sea scrolls, written in ancient Hebrew. (Which is more or less symbols, I think) then the next was modern Hebrew? Do we know when the first English translation of the modern Hebrew word?​

The torah is the first 5 books of the bible, the Dead Sea Scrolls were written by the Essenes during the time of Christ but were opposed to the temple.
Hebrew studies in the ancient pictorial language is fascinating too. I don’t know when the first translation of Hebrew to English was, but there is a bible with Arabaic language into English that was the language that Jesus spoke. It has a few oddities like instead of “rise on wings like eagles” it says dove.
But all study is interesting when the heart is set rather than the mind. (I try not to over analys anything)

So wait..the Torah is not written from the scrolls? Yes it is very fascinating..I did read about Jesus probably spoke with Arabaic language. See in this modern version in Hebrew language there are 2 letters that the English bibles don’t contain. In the first verse of genesis, God created, then it was the 2 letters, which are the first alphabet and the last alphabet in Hebrew. I think it is called “et” but it is written in Hebrew so I cant type it out. So does this modern Hebrew bible have in the first verse that he created language before anything else? Not sure if other Hebrew bibles (newer) has that.

 

[Littlek]

Your best bet is to just get a bible known to be a good translation ( in English non are perfect), then when in doubt on certain words check those words in a concordance. Some newer translations were done simply to correct clunky passages of an older version and where two or three meanings could apply in English. English is difficult to translate to. Words like hate for instant have an intent attached to them and depending on the intent coming out of the original language the word could mean to literally hate, to love less or to be loveless. Which one would you pick ? Strong's concordance attempts to iron that out and as in the case of God hating Esau we know two brothers were involved and God hated Esau according to the KJV for instance. But did He ? It's against Gods nature to hate, so Strong's suggests a better translation would be from the choices that could be used, He loved Esau less, so when you read in Strongs about that passage you will find that underlined in red as a more likely translation. And this is how it was used in bible college fwiw. They use the KJV there and point out out where some passages do have possible other words that could have been used in translation. So don't toss your KJV if you like it !!!

You own a KJV, the NKJV addresses some passages that don't really read true in the KJV and they smoothed the English out by modernizing it. In old English some meanings can get reversed simply by means of how old English reads ( no intent to be reversed), so they corrected that in the NKJV. By the way, they still didn't address God hated Esau lol !

You own a 2005 NIV but earlier versions are free of an agenda that came into play in later versions that removed a few verses ( you can do your own online search to find where and what). I love how the NIV reads but if to own one it would be 1984 or older, preferably 1978 that didn't lose certain passages.

The ESV and NAS and NASB are quite accurate. None the less, the bible you read most but feel free to check back to the original is probably your best bet. The approved Catholic bible doesn't read so different from any protestant bible but they kept the books of the Apocrypha, saying they are inspired. Both Jews and Protestants for the most part reject the Apocrypha as not being inspired. That's the main difference in context.

Wow, that was a lot of words to say so little.

Yes! I agree, english is very hard..we have so many meanings to one word, like you said. I will try to find some older versions online, I’m sure I can find some. What is the Apocrypha? The NT?
In the NT it does say God does not show favoritism also. To show favoritism would mean you love one a little bit more than the rest? Lol confusing. Thanks so much for your help?

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

So wait..the Torah is not written from the scrolls? Yes it is very fascinating..I did read about Jesus probably spoke with Arabaic language. See in this modern version in Hebrew language there are 2 letters that the English bibles don’t contain. In the first verse of genesis, God created, then it was the 2 letters, which are the first alphabet and the last alphabet in Hebrew. I think it is called “et” but it is written in Hebrew so I cant type it out. So does this modern Hebrew bible have in the first verse that he created language before anything else? Not sure if other Hebrew bibles (newer) has that.

No the torah was not written from the scrolls, Moses apparently wrote past history God-inspired and then his present history.
Alpha and Omega is Greek and Aleph and Tav are Hebrew. That is the letter of the bible. Light was created first and that is revelation.
I don’t have an English/Hebrew bible translation but it sounds like your on a very good path!

 

[Davy]

Thanks so much! I need to write all of this down lol. I’m sure I could find some books on EBay that are older too.

Really the fastest... method is use the software versions (BibleSoft is what I use, but some of those works I listed are free online too!)

 

[Bible Highlighter]

So wait..the Torah is not written from the scrolls? Yes it is very fascinating..I did read about Jesus probably spoke with Arabaic language. See in this modern version in Hebrew language there are 2 letters that the English bibles don’t contain. In the first verse of genesis, God created, then it was the 2 letters, which are the first alphabet and the last alphabet in Hebrew. I think it is called “et” but it is written in Hebrew so I cant type it out. So does this modern Hebrew bible have in the first verse that he created language before anything else? Not sure if other Hebrew bibles (newer) has that.

Jesus mentioned how not one "jot" or "tittle" shall pass away from the Law until all will be fulfilled (See: Matthew 5:18). Jots and tittles are from Hebrew. This makes sense because Jesus said salvation is of the Jews (John 4:22). This is because Jesus was a Jew or a Hebrew. Granted, things have changed after Jesus died upon the cross. We are under a New Covenant (New Testament) with New Commands. But I believe God perfectly preserved His Word for our day today.

His Words should be able to be understood plainly.

"And the LORD answered me, and said, Write the vision, and make it plain upon tables, that he may run that readeth it." (Habakkuk 2:2).
​

Christians hope in His Word.

"I wait for the LORD, my soul doth wait, and in his word do I hope."
(Psalms 130:5).​

How can I have any hope in His Word if it is corrupted in some way?

Its either all true, or it's all false.
I choose to trust and believe God in that His words are pure and that He preserved His Word for this generation today.

6 "The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever." (Psalms 12:6-7).​

Modern Translations attempt to corrupt this passage in verse 7.

 

[Littlek]

No the torah was not written from the scrolls, Moses apparently wrote past history God-inspired and then his present history.
Alpha and Omega is Greek and Aleph and Tav are Hebrew. That is the letter of the bible. Light was created first and that is revelation.
I don’t have an English/Hebrew bible translation but it sounds like your on a very good path!

Okay, wow, I’m confused..but I guess I will look it up. I keep reading about Torah, Tanakh. So the scrolls were written by Moses? (That’s our OT) where did the others come from? Torah and Tanakh. Sorry lol Ill look it up.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Okay, wow, I’m confused..but I guess I will look it up. I keep reading about Torah, Tanakh. So the scrolls were written by Moses? (That’s our OT) where did the others come from? Torah and Tanakh. Sorry lol Ill look it up.

Moses first received the 10 commandments on two stone tablets. These were shattered and God asked Moses to re-write them on tablets of stone again. The Torah (Which are the five books of Moses) was originally written on scrolls. You can see that God's Word refers to the "book of the Law" in Scripture in this keyword search here at BlueLetterBible:

Blue Letter Bible - Keyword search on "book"

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Okay, wow, I’m confused..but I guess I will look it up. I keep reading about Torah, Tanakh. So the scrolls were written by Moses? (That’s our OT) where did the others come from? Torah and Tanakh. Sorry lol Ill look it up.

The Dead Sea scrolls were written by the Essenes. Scrolls were papyri to write on. Jesus read from the scroll of Isaiah which has not changed in todays readings. Aleph is God and Tav is the cross which is the full scope of the bible.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The word "book" is another word for a scroll.
The word "roll" is another word for a scroll.

God's Words will be preserved. We see this even in Scripture.

27 "Then the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah, after that the king had burned the roll, and the words which Baruch wrote at the mouth of Jeremiah, saying,
28 Take thee again another roll, and write in it all the former words that were in the first roll, which Jehoiakim the king of Judah hath burned." (Jeremiah 36:27-28).

 

[paul1149]

Much of the original Hebrew Old Testament was lost, and then later reconstructed by the Masorites. That project went into the second millennium AD, so the product is not very old, relatively. Most of the NT quotes of the OT are from the Septuagint, which was a translation of the OT from Hebrew to Greek, made around 200 BC. For these reasons some think the Septuagint is more reliable, though most translations are based on the Hebrew.

There is quite a bit of variation in the NT text forms. The situation is not as homogeneous as many might think, but the differences generally are not significant, and seldom is any major doctrine called into question. So where does that leave us? In my view, the "God-breathed" scriptures as we have them are very reliable, but not immune to textual criticism.

If you're looking for the most accurate yet readable NT, I wholeheartedly recommend the Berean Literal NT. They have done a fantastic job of staying true to verb tenses and matching word meanings to the sense of the text. I don't think their whole Literal Bible is out yet.

The best way to study is via software. I use theWord.net's desktop program, and the whole setup is free. I have original languages, interlinears, language dictionaries, commentaries, parallel bibles, maps, etc. I can just hover over a word or Strong's number and get a pop-up of the definition. I have orig. language versions and commentaries synced to the Bible I'm reading, for verse by verse comparison and research. And much more, all free.

Also you can compare many versions at biblegateway.com.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Favorite bible verse
Then I said, ‘Here I am, it is written about Me in the scroll:
I have come to do Your will,
O God.’”


Strong's Greek: 975. βιβλίον (biblion) -- a paper, book
the scroll​