Daniel's 70th week

sovereigngrace

Well-Known Member
Dec 9, 2019
8,980
3,447
USA
Visit site
✟200,064.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Unknown in scripture? Jews living in Jerusalem, who were Christians, were zealous of the Law. They even urged Paul to take part in in a vow and make an offering in temple.

Acts 21:20-26 When they heard this, they glorified God. Then they said to Paul, “You see, brother, how many thousands of Jews have believed, and all of them are zealous for the law. But they are under the impression that you teach all the Jews who live among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or observe our customs. What then should we do? They will certainly hear that you have come.Therefore do what we advise you. There are four men with us who have taken a vow. Take these men, purify yourself along with them, and pay their expenses so they can have their heads shaved. Then everyone will know that there is no truth to these rumors about you, but that you also live in obedience to the law.As for the Gentile believers, we have written to them our decision that they must abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals, and from sexual immorality So the next day Paul took the men and purified himself along with them. Then he entered the temple to give notice of the date when their purification would be complete and the offering would be made for each of them.



What Bible translation translates genea as anything other than "generation"



WHat Bible translation translates genea as anything other than "generation"

You have to address that Thayer's lexicon has the genea of Matthew 24:34 as meaning "the whole multitude of men living at the same time" and not race.

3. the whole multitude of men living at the same time: Matthew 24:34; Mark 13:30; Luke 1:48 (πᾶσαι αἱ γενεαί); ; Philippians 2:15; used especially of the Jewish race living at one and the same period: Matthew 11:16; Matthew 12:39, 41f, 45; Matthew 16:4; Matthew 23:36; Mark 8:12, 38; Luke 11:29f, 32, 50; Luke 17:25; Acts 13:36; Hebrews 3:10; ἄνθρωποι τῆς γενεάς ταύτης, Luke 7:31; ἄνδρες τῆς γενεάς ταύτης, Luke 11:31; τήν δέ γενεάν αὐτοῦ τίς διηγήσεται, who can describe the wickedness of the present generation, Acts 8:33 (from Isaiah 53:8 the Sept.) (but cf. Meyer, at the passage).



Genos is not found in Matthew 24:34, Genea is. while genos is translated as "of the stock". Genea is never translated that way.

Can you provide a Bible translation that translates "genea" as anything other than generation, to support your opinion?

I actually quoted Thayer's lexicon, not partially and selectively like you, but fully:

"γενεά

genea

Thayer Definition:

1) fathered, birth, nativity

2) that which has been begotten, men of the same stock, a family

2a) the several ranks of natural descent, the successive members of a genealogy

2b) metaphorically a group of men very like each other in endowments, pursuits, character


2b1) especially in a bad sense, a perverse nation

3) the whole multitude of men living at the same time

4) an age (i.e. the time ordinarily occupied be each successive generation), a space of 30 - 33 years."
 
Upvote 0

jgr

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Feb 25, 2008
9,692
5,007
✟783,467.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
I actually quoted Thayer's lexicon, not partially and selectively like you, but fully:

"γενεά

genea

Thayer Definition:

1) fathered, birth, nativity

2) that which has been begotten, men of the same stock, a family

2a) the several ranks of natural descent, the successive members of a genealogy

2b) metaphorically a group of men very like each other in endowments, pursuits, character


2b1) especially in a bad sense, a perverse nation

3) the whole multitude of men living at the same time

4) an age (i.e. the time ordinarily occupied be each successive generation), a space of 30 - 33 years."

Matthew 24:34 (and Mark 13:30) are listed only in category 3.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: claninja
Upvote 0

sovereigngrace

Well-Known Member
Dec 9, 2019
8,980
3,447
USA
Visit site
✟200,064.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Matthew 24:34 (and Mark 13:30) are listed only in category 3.

That is only his personal view. It is no greater than mine or yours. The word was placed there by the Holy Spirit and carries the overall meaning of racial stock. Notwithstanding, and as I have repeatedly said here, if it is to be contextually applied to any generation, it is the one before Christ's one final future climactic coming. Where God has placed it has place the phrase "this generation" has nothing to do with AD70.
 
Upvote 0

Oberamagau

Active Member
Feb 21, 2020
129
43
Penacook
✟2,339.00
Country
United States
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
There were 11 witnesses that saw Jesus taken up in a cloud into heaven. What witnesses do we have that actually saw Jesus come in AD70 literally, physically and visibly?

Christ's coming shall be sudden as lightning. What is more sudden, visible and spectacular than lightning? Lightning is not hid! It can be seen by all across the sky. This is no secret appearance in this text.
There were no witnesses because there was no return of Christ to witness. It's difficult to understand how some people think Jesus' words in Mathew 24 passed in the first century.
 
Upvote 0

jgr

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Feb 25, 2008
9,692
5,007
✟783,467.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
That is only his personal view. It is no greater than mine or yours. The word was placed there by the Holy Spirit and carries the overall meaning of racial stock. Notwithstanding, and as I have repeatedly said here, if it is to be contextually applied to any generation, it is the one before Christ's one final future climactic coming. Where God has placed it has place the phrase "this generation" has nothing to do with AD70.

I'm quite confident that his Greek is better than yours and mine.
 
  • Friendly
Reactions: claninja
Upvote 0

summerville

Well-Known Member
Feb 22, 2020
1,190
437
77
Atlanta
✟11,428.00
Country
United States
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Single
My first post—thank you for having me participate. I just listened to a well known reformed evangelical teacher in South Carolina preach on Daniel 9.24-27 regarding the 70 weeks. He dogmatically says that the numerics (7, 62, 69, 70) are representational and not specific to real years or time periods—I disagree with that severe interpretation.

He also stated emphatically that the entire set of verses relate to Jesus and that all mentions of the word "he" should be interpreted as Jesus. He doesnt give reasons for that but so be it. For the most part I think this is correct. He also mentions that that the "desolations" verses in Daniel refer only to AD 70 and uses Matt 24 to support this. However i dont believe he is a preterist. Unfortunately in his sermon he dogmatically forgot to mention the second half of verse 27 which says: "and for half of the week he shall cause sacrifice and offering to cease; and upon the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator."

Now i dont see how you can make the "he" in verse 27 become Jesus. Can anyone piece together a rational argument that justifies his position? thanks

Half a week (3.5 years) Daniel is about Antiochus IV.. It was 3.5years before the Jews rededicated the Temple after he had defiled it with the Abomination of Desolation.
 
Upvote 0

summerville

Well-Known Member
Feb 22, 2020
1,190
437
77
Atlanta
✟11,428.00
Country
United States
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Single
Of course he doesn't. The text in Daniel 9:25-27 is only concerned with these 70 weeks in particular. None of it is focusing on anything outside of these 70 weeks. But trying to convince some folks of that is pretty much impossible. Oh well, can't win them all.

Daniel 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

IMO----and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined---belongs with this part---And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.


IOW, the former occurs during the latter, during the 70th week. After verse 27 runs it's course, we are then in the time of the 2nd coming and not still in the time of the first century instead.

The people of the prince to come is Titus and the soldiers he commanded.. not only Roman garrisons, but Egyptians, Syrians and Arabs under his command.
 
Upvote 0

jgr

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Feb 25, 2008
9,692
5,007
✟783,467.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
The people of the prince to come is Titus and the soldiers he commanded.. not only Roman garrisons, but Egyptians, Syrians and Arabs under his command.

Titus was a prince, but he does not appear in the passage.

Titus the prince and the armies that he commanded were under the command and control of Messiah the Prince.

Messiah the Prince does appear in the passage in verse 25.

He is the only individual in the passage identified as a prince.

The people of the prince were the Roman armies which were His instruments of judgment and destruction.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Christian Gedge

Well-Known Member
Nov 29, 2017
1,214
1,361
Waikato
Visit site
✟227,010.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Half a week (3.5 years) Daniel is about Antiochus IV.. It was 3.5years before the Jews rededicated the Temple after he had defiled it with the Abomination of Desolation.

Dont conflate the vision of chapter 8 with that of chapter 9. The Greek abomination was from Kislev to Kislev, whereas the 'weeks' were from Nisan to Nisan (originally) and later changed to Tishri. Also the Greek abomination lasted 1093 days, slightly less than three years.
 
Upvote 0

sovereigngrace

Well-Known Member
Dec 9, 2019
8,980
3,447
USA
Visit site
✟200,064.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The same one you quoted in post 701.

There were 11 witnesses that saw Jesus taken up in a cloud into heaven. What witnesses do we have that actually saw Jesus come in AD70 literally, physically and visibly?

Christ's coming shall be sudden as lightning. What is more sudden, visible and spectacular than lightning? Lightning is not hid! It can be seen by all across the sky. This is no secret appearance in this text.
 
Upvote 0

jgr

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Feb 25, 2008
9,692
5,007
✟783,467.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
There were 11 witnesses that saw Jesus taken up in a cloud into heaven. What witnesses do we have that actually saw Jesus come in AD70 literally, physically and visibly?

None, which is what we've been saying.

Christ's coming shall be sudden as lightning. What is more sudden, visible and spectacular than lightning? Lightning is not hid! It can be seen by all across the sky. This is no secret appearance in this text.

True of His Second Coming.
 
Upvote 0

sovereigngrace

Well-Known Member
Dec 9, 2019
8,980
3,447
USA
Visit site
✟200,064.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
None, which is what we've been saying.



True.

Jesus words in Matthew 24:27 correlate with repeated Scripture relating to the second coming: “For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.”

Christ's coming shall be sudden and visible as lightning. What is more sudden and spectacular than lightning? Lightning is not hid! It can be seen by all across the sky.

Acts 1:11: “Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.”

This passage tells us it is the actual “manner” or tropos (meaning style or mode) of His glorious ascent into heaven is the way He will return.

How did He go?

Literally, physically, visibly.


•Physically: “This same Jesus.”
•Visibly: “while they beheld, he was taken up” - “as ye have seen Him go.”
•Literally: “In like manner.”
 
Upvote 0

Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
May 28, 2009
28,683
3,404
Non-dispensationalist
✟356,689.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Half a week (3.5 years) Daniel is about Antiochus IV.. It was 3.5years before the Jews rededicated the Temple after he had defiled it with the Abomination of Desolation.
Antiochus lived 160 years before Jesus. Jesus was cutoff in Daniel 9:26. Then the temple and city destroyed in 70 AD. And the future prince who shall come of those people who destroyed the temple and city, will confirm the covenant for 7 years.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

jgr

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Feb 25, 2008
9,692
5,007
✟783,467.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Jesus words in Matthew 24:27 correlate with repeated Scripture relating to the second coming: “For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.”

Christ's coming shall be sudden and visible as lightning. What is more sudden and spectacular than lightning? Lightning is not hid! It can be seen by all across the sky.

Acts 1:11: “Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.”

This passage tells us it is the actual “manner” or tropos (meaning style or mode) of His glorious ascent into heaven is the way He will return.

How did He go?

Literally, physically, visibly.


•Physically: “This same Jesus.”
•Visibly: “while they beheld, he was taken up” - “as ye have seen Him go.”
•Literally: “In like manner.”

What happened immediately after the tribulation of 70 AD?

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
 
Upvote 0

claninja

Well-Known Member
Jan 8, 2017
5,647
2,189
indiana
✟298,136.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Jesus said to the dying thief, in Luke 23:43, "Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise."

And yet Jesus did not go to paradise that same day, as clearly testified by the scriptures

John 20:17 “Do not cling to Me,” Jesus said, “for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go and tell My brothers, ‘I am ascending to My Father and your Father, to My God and your God.’”

There is no punctuation in the greek, thus the comma placement should came after today to be more consistent with scripture.

This is not uncommon in scripture

Acts 20:26 Therefore I testify to you this day that I am innocent of the blood of all,

Dueteronomy 6:6 And these words that I command you today shall be on your heart.

Acts 7:59-60 records, “And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit. And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.”

Stephen’s spirit was separating from his body and went to be with God. However, his body was going to the grave.

Jesus also yielded up his spirit to the Father.
Luke 23:46 Then Jesus called out in a loud voice, “Father, into Your hands I commit My Spirit.

But as scripture testifies, he did no go to heaven that day.
John 20:17 “Do not cling to Me,” Jesus said, “for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go and tell My brothers, ‘I am ascending to My Father and your Father, to My God and your God.’”

2 Corinthians 5:8 says, "We are confident, I say, and willing rather ‘to be absent’ from the body, and ‘to be present’ with the Lord."

‘ekdeemeesai’ – ‘be absent’

‘endeemeesai’ – ‘be present’

The context of this passage is the resurrection
2 corinthians 5:4-5 For while we are still in this tent, we groan, being burdened—not that we would be unclothed, but that we would be further clothed, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.

Thus Paul would rather, or be "well pleased" to be absent from the body, from the earthly tent, and be present with the Lord in the heavenly dwelling. This goes right back to the main context: the resurrection

2 corinthians 5:6-8 So we are always of good courage. We know that while we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord, for we walk by faith, not by sight. Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord.

Notice, Paul states to always be at home with the Lord occurs at us being caught up to the Lord. This is consistent with 2 corinthians 5, to be away from the body is to be with the Lord.
1 thessalonians 4:17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord

Paul said in Philippians 1:21-24 says, “For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not. For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better: Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you.”

Right, and Paul clearly states that while his departure "has come", it wouldn't be until the appearing of the Lord that he would receive his reward.

2 timothy 4:6-8 For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure has come. I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. Henceforth there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will award to me on that day, and not only to me but also to all who have loved his appearing.

The going to be with Christ has to be taken with the entire context of Paul's messages. To be with Christ would occur at the resurrection.

Paul states believers who have died are "sleeping", not yet at home with the Lord

1 Corinthians 15:6 Then he appeared to more than five hundred brothers at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have fallen asleep.

1 corinthians 15:51 Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

Again Paul confirms it is upon being caught up to the Lord, that we are always with Him.

1 thessalonians 4:17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord

Death was a promotion for Paul!!!

Well, Paul did believe the resurrection was "about to be"

Acts 24:15 having hope toward God, which they themselves also wait for, [that] there is about to be a rising again of the dead, both of righteous and unrighteous;

Revelation 14:13 agrees: “And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.”

In Revelation 4:4, 10, 5:8, 14, 11:6, 19:4, we see 24 Elders around the throne in heaven. Who are they? Also, in Revelation 7 we see several references to 144,000 in heaven that have been redeemed from off the earth. Who are they?

Revelation 20:4 says, “And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them.”

And continues, “I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.”

Revelation 6:9-10 similarly says, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?”

Revelation 6:9-10 – the fifth seal – is unquestionably speaking (1) of heaven and also (2) of a time prior to the Second Advent and the day of God’s wrath – the sixth seal.

The very next verse of this narrative (6:11) says, “And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.”

Here we clearly have a heavenly scene, and a heavenly scene in this present period of time. It reveals the risen saints in glory awaiting the consummation of all things.

Revelation 15:1-3 says, “I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God. I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, andover his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God. And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the lamb, saying, great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.”

Again this relates to the intra-Advent period. Also, there is no doubt that this scene is in heaven and that “victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name” evidently meant martyrdom for those in view. However, absent from the body for the believer assuredly means present with the Lord in His heavenly abode.

Revelation 7:9-14 adds further light on the matter, saying, “I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb…one of the elders answered, saying unto me, what are these which are arrayed in white robes? And whence came they? And I said unto him, sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, these are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.”

Here are what the dead in Christ are clothed with - Christ's robes of righteousness. They are far from naked and exposed.

The souls are therefore identified here as (1) the redeemed and are clearly located (2) in heaven.

Verse 15 continues, “Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.”

Symbolic language from an Apocolyptic book, not the best place to create a doctrine about going to heaven upon death prior to the resurrection.
 
Upvote 0

claninja

Well-Known Member
Jan 8, 2017
5,647
2,189
indiana
✟298,136.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
As I posted above, there were two questions asked by the disciples, one related to AD70, the second related to Christ's climatic future coming. I believe Christ's shift to answering the second question (re the future second coming) comes in Matthew 24:23, Mark 13:21 and Luke 21:25. These are all parallel accounts. Our Lord describes events that will precede His return, and then speaks about that climactic event also. The detail re generation speaks that genea alive when He returns in power and glory.

This doesn't address my post. You stated the validity of the temple is unknown in scripture between 30ad and 70ad. This is shown to false in Acts 21:20-26. Jews, who were Christians, were very zealous for the law and even urged paul to partake in an offering in the temple to show that he did not teach against the law.

Thus, was the temple presently standing when Hebrews was written?
Were the priests performing their duties in this present standing temple?

What did the Holy Spirit symbolize by this for the PRESENT AGE that the author of hebrews was living in?


I believe Christ's shift to answering the second question (re the future second coming) comes in Matthew 24:23, Mark 13:21 and Luke 21:25.

This is where I would disagree. Contextually, it doesn't make sense.

Since, we agree that they are parallel accounts, 2 of the 3 accounts show that the questions are all about the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple, and the signs leading up to it.

Luke 21:7 and they asked him, “Teacher, when will these things be, and what will be the sign when these things are about to take place?

Mark 13:4 Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign when all these things are about to be accomplished?”

Thus Matthew's question means the exact same as its parallel accounts: it's pointing to the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple and the signs leading up to it.

Matthew 24:3 As he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?


The detail re generation speaks that genea alive when He returns in power and glory.

Again, no Bible translation ever translates genea as anything other then generation.

Thayer's lexicon even agrees that the genea of matthew 24:34 means "multitude of men living at the same time"

3. the whole multitude of men living at the same time: Matthew 24:34; Mark 13:30; Luke 1:48 (πᾶσαι αἱ γενεαί); ; Philippians 2:15; used especially of the Jewish race living at one and the same period: Matthew 11:16; Matthew 12:39, 41f, 45; Matthew 16:4; Matthew 23:36; Mark 8:12, 38; Luke 11:29f, 32, 50; Luke 17:25; Acts 13:36; Hebrews 3:10; ἄνθρωποι τῆς γενεάς ταύτης, Luke 7:31; ἄνδρες τῆς γενεάς ταύτης, Luke 11:31; τήν δέ γενεάν αὐτοῦ τίς διηγήσεται, who can describe the wickedness of the present generation, Acts 8:33 (from Isaiah 53:8 the Sept.) (but cf. Meyer, at the passage).





 
Upvote 0

claninja

Well-Known Member
Jan 8, 2017
5,647
2,189
indiana
✟298,136.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I actually quoted Thayer's lexicon, not partially and selectively like you, but fully:

"γενεά

genea

Thayer Definition:

1) fathered, birth, nativity

2) that which has been begotten, men of the same stock, a family

2a) the several ranks of natural descent, the successive members of a genealogy

2b) metaphorically a group of men very like each other in endowments, pursuits, character


2b1) especially in a bad sense, a perverse nation

3) the whole multitude of men living at the same time

4) an age (i.e. the time ordinarily occupied be each successive generation), a space of 30 - 33 years."

Matthew 24:34 is listed under part 3). You keep leaving that out.

3. the whole multitude of men living at the same time: Matthew 24:34; Mark 13:30; Luke 1:48 (πᾶσαι αἱ γενεαί); ; Philippians 2:15; used especially of the Jewish race living at one and the same period: Matthew 11:16; Matthew 12:39, 41f, 45; Matthew 16:4; Matthew 23:36; Mark 8:12, 38; Luke 11:29f, 32, 50; Luke 17:25; Acts 13:36; Hebrews 3:10; ἄνθρωποι τῆς γενεάς ταύτης, Luke 7:31; ἄνδρες τῆς γενεάς ταύτης, Luke 11:31; τήν δέ γενεάν αὐτοῦ τίς διηγήσεται, who can describe the wickedness of the present generation, Acts 8:33 (from Isaiah 53:8 the Sept.) (but cf. Meyer, at the passage).
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Christian Gedge

Well-Known Member
Nov 29, 2017
1,214
1,361
Waikato
Visit site
✟227,010.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
This doesn't address my post. You stated the validity of the temple is unknown in scripture between 30ad and 70ad. This is shown to false in Acts 21:20-26. Jews, who were Christians, were very zealous for the law and even urged paul to partake in an offering in the temple to show that he did not teach against the law.

A few quick notes about this incident: First, they were new converts from Judaism, and the Jerusalem elders seemed willing to permit 'customs' although they themselves shared a level of revelation similar to Paul.

Second, the ceremony proposed here was a Nazarite vow, not atonement sacrifices as forbidden in the book of Hebrews. The elders and Paul reasoned (wrongly IMO) that a custom-based sacrifice not involving atonement would be reasonable.

Third, the sacrifice never took place. Paul was arrested before the purification stage was finished. (verse 27) I believe the plan was ill conceived, and God intercepted it before Paul compromised himself.

Thus, was the temple presently standing when Hebrews was written?
What are you asking here Claninja? Are you suggesting that animal sacrifice was still acceptable to God in an interim period between AD 30 and AD 70?
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0