Are we saved by faith alone, or something more?

How are we saved?

  • we are saved by faith alone

    Votes: 1 3.8%
  • we are saved by grace

    Votes: 1 3.8%
  • we are saved by grace through faith

    Votes: 14 53.8%
  • we are saved by grace through faith when we repent of sin

    Votes: 9 34.6%
  • God gives us grace to do works to continually save and resave ourselves

    Votes: 1 3.8%
  • we are saved by works and salvation is lost whenever you sin and regained when you repent

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    26
  • Poll closed .
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St_Worm2

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again if what was said was that you have sola fide or 100% faith, and sola gracia (thats 200%) how can you have 200% of 100%? So there is a logical error in the very premise of having sola fide and sola gracia both refer to salvation. There is no way around that. If it's only by grace, then it's not by faith, if it's only by faith then grace is not there, hence the sola's. So again I repeat if what was said, was not meant by the reformers, why not just issue a retraction and say..."oops we messed up." Why defend errorsome dogma for hundreds of years after it's proven wrong, it's time to move on sir, move on to bigger and better things, like Just the Bible, sola scriptura. I agree with that statement, but none of the others. sola scriptura is the only one that works.
Let's move on! Your thread's principle focus seems to be summed up by your poll's title, "How Are We Saved?".

For me, answering that question begins by looking at the Savior Himself, at what He did for us, and why, which is why I asked you the two questions that I did (originally in Post #33 above).

1. Why the Incarnation? 2. Why the Cross?
So, why did Jesus do what He did for us? Also, was all of it absolutely necessary for our salvation, and if so, why do you think it was?

Thanks!

--David
 
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createdtoworship

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Let's move on! Your thread's principle focus seems to be summed up by your poll's title, "How Are We Saved?".

For me, answering that question begins by looking at the Savior Himself, at what He did for us, and why, which is why I asked you the two questions that I did (originally in Post #33 above).

1. Why the Incarnation? 2. Why the Cross?
So, why did Jesus do what He did for us? Also, was all of it absolutely necessary for our salvation, and if so, why do you think it was?

Thanks!

--David
I believe this is all referred to completely in post one, please read that. I don't want to repeat stuff about salvation that is already posted in post one. If you have a question about a concept in post one, quote all the questionable concepts, and post a new post, and we can talk about it further. I hope that is ok. Thanks for moving on. I know as a former calvinist myself that there is a tendency to adhere to dogma, creeds or systems of interpretation. Eventually one day I simply read the Bible with no bias, no calvinistic interpretations, no arminian interpretations, I just read it without any preconceptions and allowed it to speak for itself. That is truly a freeing excersize. It ended up changing my soteriology in a matter of days. I had written soteriological journals on my website for years before hand. I thought I knew it all. I was in the process of writting a book. I am glad I didn't it was 100% wrong. I had a good dose of humble pie. Now I just ask for scripture in theological discussions. Scripture is what it all boils down to.
 
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fhansen

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"The gospel that Jesus proclaimed was a call to discipleship, a call to follow Him in submissive obedience, not just a plea to make a decision or pray a prayer. Jesus' message liberated people from the bondage of their sin while it confronted and condemned hypocrisy. It was an offer of eternal life and forgiveness for repentant sinners, but at the same time it was a rebuke to outwardly religious people whose lives were devoid of true righteousness. It put sinners on notice that they must turn from sin and embrace God's righteousness. Our Lord's words about eternal life were invariably accompanied by warnings to those who might be tempted to take salvation lightly. He taught that the cost of following Him is high, that the way is narrow and few find it. He said many who call him Lord will be forbidden from entering the kingdom of heaven (cf. Matthew 7:13-23). Present-day evangelicalism, by and large, ignores these warnings. The prevailing view of what constitutes saving faith continues to grow broader and more shallow, while the portrayal of Christ in preaching and witnessing becomes fuzzy. Anyone who claims to be a Christian can find evangelicals willing to accept a profession of faith, whether or not the person's behavior shows any evidence of commitment to Christ. In this way, faith has become merely an intellectual exercise. Instead of calling men and women to surrender to Christ, modern evangelism asks them only to accept some basic facts about Him. This shallow understanding of salvation and the gospel, known as "easy-believism," stands in stark contrast to what the Bible teaches. To put it simply, the gospel call to faith presupposes that sinners must repent of their sin and yield to Christ's authority. This, in a nutshell, is what is commonly referred to as lordship salvation. The Distinctives of Lordship Salvation There are many articles of faith that are fundamental to all evangelical teaching.

For example, there is agreement among all believers on the following truths:
  • (1) Christ's death purchased eternal salvation;
  • (2) the saved are justified by grace through faith in Christ alone;
  • (3) sinners cannot earn divine favor;
  • (4) God requires no preparatory works or pre-salvation reformation;
  • (5) eternal life is a gift of God;
  • (6) believers are saved before their faith ever produces any righteous works
  • (7) Christians can and do sin, sometimes horribly.

What, then, are the distinctives of lordship salvation? What does Scripture teach that is embraced by those who affirm lordship salvation but rejected by proponents of "easy-believism"? The following are nine distinctives of a biblical understanding of salvation and the gospel.

  • First, Scripture teaches that the gospel calls sinners to faith joined in oneness with repentance (Acts 2:38; 17:30; 20:21; 2 Peter 3:9). Repentance is a turning from sin (Acts 3:19; Luke 24:47) that consists not of a human work but of a divinely bestowed grace (Acts 11:18; 2 Timothy 2:25). It is a change of heart, but genuine repentance will effect a change of behavior as well (Luke 3:8; Acts 26:18-20). In contrast, easy-believism teaches that repentance is simply a synonym for faith and that no turning from sin is required for salvation.
  • Second, Scripture teaches that salvation is all God's work. Those who believe are saved utterly apart from any effort on their own (Titus 3:5). Even faith is a gift of God, not a work of man (Ephesians 2:1- 5, 8). Real faith therefore cannot be defective or short-lived but endures forever (Philippians 1:6; cf. Hebrews 11). In contrast, easy-believism teaches that faith might not last and that a true Christian can completely cease believing. ( I would disagree with point 2 but I include the article in full length)
  • Third, Scripture teaches that the object of faith is Christ Himself, not a creed or a promise (John 3:16). Faith therefore involves personal commitment to Christ (2 Corinthians 5:15). In other words, all true believers follow Jesus (John 10:27-28). In contrast, easy-believism teaches that saving faith is simply being convinced or giving credence to the truth of the gospel and does not include a personal commitment to the person of Christ.
  • Fourth, Scripture teaches that real faith inevitably produces a changed life (2 Corinthians 5:17). Salvation includes a transformation of the inner person (Galatians 2:20). The nature of the Christian is new and different (Romans 6:6). The unbroken pattern of sin and enmity with God will not continue when a person is born again (1 John 3:9-10). Those with genuine faith follow Christ (John 10:27), love their brothers (1 John 3:14), obey God's commandments (1 John 2:3; John 15:14), do the will of God (Matthew 12:50), abide in God's Word (John 8:31), keep God's Word (John 17:6), do good works (Ephesians 2:10), and continue in the faith (Colossians 1:21-23; Hebrews 3:14). In contrast, easy-believism teaches that although some spiritual fruit is inevitable, that fruit might not be visible to others and Christians can even lapse into a state of permanent spiritual barrenness.
  • Fifth, Scripture teaches that God's gift of eternal life includes all that pertains to life and godliness (2 Peter 1:3; Romans 8:32), not just a ticket to heaven. In contrast, according to easy-believism, only the judicial aspects of salvation (e.g., justification, adoption, and positional sanctification) are guaranteed for believers in this life; practical sanctification and growth in grace require a postconversion act of dedication.
  • Sixth, Scripture teaches that Jesus is Lord of all, and the faith He demands involves unconditional surrender (Romans 6:17-18; 10:9-10). In other words, Christ does not bestow eternal life on those whose hearts remain set against Him (James 4:6). Surrender to Jesus' lordship is not an addendum to the biblical terms of salvation; the summons to submission is at the heart of the gospel invitation throughout Scripture. In contrast, easy-believism teaches that submission to Christ's supreme authority is not germane to the saving transaction.
  • Seventh, Scripture teaches that those who truly believe will love Christ (1 Peter 1:8-9; Romans 8:28- 30; 1 Corinthians 16:22). They will therefore long to obey Him (John 14:15, 23). In contrast, easy believism teaches that Christians may fall into a state of lifelong carnality.
  • Eighth, Scripture teaches that behavior is an important test of faith. Obedience is evidence that one's faith is real (1 John 2:3). On the other hand, the person who remains utterly unwilling to obey Christ does not evidence true faith (1 John 2:4). In contrast, easy-believism teaches that disobedience and prolonged sin are no reason to doubt the reality of one's faith.
  • Ninth, Scripture teaches that genuine believers may stumble and fall, but they will persevere in the faith (1 Corinthians 1:8). Those who later turn completely away from the Lord show that they were never truly born again (1 John 2:19). In contrast, easy-believism teaches that a true believer may utterly forsake Christ and come to the point of not believing. Most Christians recognize that these nine distinctives are not new or radical ideas. The preponderance of Bible-believing Christians over the centuries have held these to be basic tenets of orthodoxy. In fact, no major orthodox movement in the history of Christianity has ever taught that sinners can spurn the lordship of Christ yet lay claim to Him as Savior. This issue is not a trivial one. In fact, how could any issue be more important? The gospel that is presented to unbelievers has eternal ramifications. If it is the true gospel, it can direct men and women into the everlasting kingdom. If it is a corrupted message, it can give unsaved people false hope while consigning them to eternal damnation. This is not merely a matter for theologians to discuss and debate and speculate about. This is an issue that every single pastor and lay person must understand in order that the gospel may be rightly proclaimed to all the nations."

this is from the Grace Community Church Distinctive on Lordship Salvation . It was adapted from John MacArthur's material on the topic of lordship salvation, and serves as an excellent introduction to the subject.
quote from this link :
An Introduction to Lordship Salvation

(works based salvation is considered off topic, and I will request that the thread be closed if too many posts show up with works based soteriology)
We’re saved by grace through faith because faith is the means to relationship or communion with the only One who can justify and therefore save us. Man was made for communion with God; we were made to know Him, and we exist in an unjust or disordered state by the very fact of not being in communion with Him. That seperation constitutes death for man.

Jesus came, when the time was ripe, to reveal God to an extent and in a way that He’d never been revealed before: fully and personally. So that we know Him, and so believe and be reconciled with Him.
“Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.” John 17:3

And to know God is to love Him and within that relationship He can do a work in us as we cooperate with Him in it. By the same token we can turn back away from the God who makes us just; we can turn back to sin and it’s wages of death; we can forfeit and lose our state of justice IOW.
 
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createdtoworship

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We’re saved by grace through faith because faith is the means to relationship or communion with the only One who can justify and therefore save us. Man was made for communion with God; we were made to know Him, and we exist in an unjust Or disordered state by the very fact of not being in communion with Him. That seperation constitutes death for man.

Jesus came, when the time was ripe, to reveal God to an extent and in a way that He’d never been revealed before: fully and personally. So that we know Him, and so believe and be reconciled with Him.
“Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.” John 17:3

And to know God is to love Him and within that relationship He can do a work in us as we cooperate with Him in it. By the same token we can turn back away from the God who makes us just; we can turn back to sin and it’s wages of death; we can forfeit and lose our state of justice IOW.
I agree, and what about repentance? I posted a good article in post one about the necessity of repentance, feel free to read it. If you disagree with anything in that post, quote it, and we can talk about it further. Thanks for putting your two cents in.
 
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JLB777

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"The gospel that Jesus proclaimed was a call to discipleship, a call to follow Him in submissive obedience, not just a plea to make a decision or pray a prayer. Jesus' message liberated people from the bondage of their sin while it confronted and condemned hypocrisy. It was an offer of eternal life and forgiveness for repentant sinners, but at the same time it was a rebuke to outwardly religious people whose lives were devoid of true righteousness. It put sinners on notice that they must turn from sin and embrace God's righteousness. Our Lord's words about eternal life were invariably accompanied by warnings to those who might be tempted to take salvation lightly. He taught that the cost of following Him is high, that the way is narrow and few find it. He said many who call him Lord will be forbidden from entering the kingdom of heaven (cf. Matthew 7:13-23). Present-day evangelicalism, by and large, ignores these warnings. The prevailing view of what constitutes saving faith continues to grow broader and more shallow, while the portrayal of Christ in preaching and witnessing becomes fuzzy. Anyone who claims to be a Christian can find evangelicals willing to accept a profession of faith, whether or not the person's behavior shows any evidence of commitment to Christ. In this way, faith has become merely an intellectual exercise. Instead of calling men and women to surrender to Christ, modern evangelism asks them only to accept some basic facts about Him. This shallow understanding of salvation and the gospel, known as "easy-believism," stands in stark contrast to what the Bible teaches. To put it simply, the gospel call to faith presupposes that sinners must repent of their sin and yield to Christ's authority. This, in a nutshell, is what is commonly referred to as lordship salvation. The Distinctives of Lordship Salvation There are many articles of faith that are fundamental to all evangelical teaching.

For example, there is agreement among all believers on the following truths:
  • (1) Christ's death purchased eternal salvation;
  • (2) the saved are justified by grace through faith in Christ alone;
  • (3) sinners cannot earn divine favor;
  • (4) God requires no preparatory works or pre-salvation reformation;
  • (5) eternal life is a gift of God;
  • (6) believers are saved before their faith ever produces any righteous works
  • (7) Christians can and do sin, sometimes horribly.

What, then, are the distinctives of lordship salvation? What does Scripture teach that is embraced by those who affirm lordship salvation but rejected by proponents of "easy-believism"? The following are nine distinctives of a biblical understanding of salvation and the gospel.

  • First, Scripture teaches that the gospel calls sinners to faith joined in oneness with repentance (Acts 2:38; 17:30; 20:21; 2 Peter 3:9). Repentance is a turning from sin (Acts 3:19; Luke 24:47) that consists not of a human work but of a divinely bestowed grace (Acts 11:18; 2 Timothy 2:25). It is a change of heart, but genuine repentance will effect a change of behavior as well (Luke 3:8; Acts 26:18-20). In contrast, easy-believism teaches that repentance is simply a synonym for faith and that no turning from sin is required for salvation.
  • Second, Scripture teaches that salvation is all God's work. Those who believe are saved utterly apart from any effort on their own (Titus 3:5). Even faith is a gift of God, not a work of man (Ephesians 2:1- 5, 8). Real faith therefore cannot be defective or short-lived but endures forever (Philippians 1:6; cf. Hebrews 11). In contrast, easy-believism teaches that faith might not last and that a true Christian can completely cease believing. ( I would disagree with point 2 but I include the article in full length)
  • Third, Scripture teaches that the object of faith is Christ Himself, not a creed or a promise (John 3:16). Faith therefore involves personal commitment to Christ (2 Corinthians 5:15). In other words, all true believers follow Jesus (John 10:27-28). In contrast, easy-believism teaches that saving faith is simply being convinced or giving credence to the truth of the gospel and does not include a personal commitment to the person of Christ.
  • Fourth, Scripture teaches that real faith inevitably produces a changed life (2 Corinthians 5:17). Salvation includes a transformation of the inner person (Galatians 2:20). The nature of the Christian is new and different (Romans 6:6). The unbroken pattern of sin and enmity with God will not continue when a person is born again (1 John 3:9-10). Those with genuine faith follow Christ (John 10:27), love their brothers (1 John 3:14), obey God's commandments (1 John 2:3; John 15:14), do the will of God (Matthew 12:50), abide in God's Word (John 8:31), keep God's Word (John 17:6), do good works (Ephesians 2:10), and continue in the faith (Colossians 1:21-23; Hebrews 3:14). In contrast, easy-believism teaches that although some spiritual fruit is inevitable, that fruit might not be visible to others and Christians can even lapse into a state of permanent spiritual barrenness.
  • Fifth, Scripture teaches that God's gift of eternal life includes all that pertains to life and godliness (2 Peter 1:3; Romans 8:32), not just a ticket to heaven. In contrast, according to easy-believism, only the judicial aspects of salvation (e.g., justification, adoption, and positional sanctification) are guaranteed for believers in this life; practical sanctification and growth in grace require a postconversion act of dedication.
  • Sixth, Scripture teaches that Jesus is Lord of all, and the faith He demands involves unconditional surrender (Romans 6:17-18; 10:9-10). In other words, Christ does not bestow eternal life on those whose hearts remain set against Him (James 4:6). Surrender to Jesus' lordship is not an addendum to the biblical terms of salvation; the summons to submission is at the heart of the gospel invitation throughout Scripture. In contrast, easy-believism teaches that submission to Christ's supreme authority is not germane to the saving transaction.
  • Seventh, Scripture teaches that those who truly believe will love Christ (1 Peter 1:8-9; Romans 8:28- 30; 1 Corinthians 16:22). They will therefore long to obey Him (John 14:15, 23). In contrast, easy believism teaches that Christians may fall into a state of lifelong carnality.
  • Eighth, Scripture teaches that behavior is an important test of faith. Obedience is evidence that one's faith is real (1 John 2:3). On the other hand, the person who remains utterly unwilling to obey Christ does not evidence true faith (1 John 2:4). In contrast, easy-believism teaches that disobedience and prolonged sin are no reason to doubt the reality of one's faith.
  • Ninth, Scripture teaches that genuine believers may stumble and fall, but they will persevere in the faith (1 Corinthians 1:8). Those who later turn completely away from the Lord show that they were never truly born again (1 John 2:19). In contrast, easy-believism teaches that a true believer may utterly forsake Christ and come to the point of not believing. Most Christians recognize that these nine distinctives are not new or radical ideas. The preponderance of Bible-believing Christians over the centuries have held these to be basic tenets of orthodoxy. In fact, no major orthodox movement in the history of Christianity has ever taught that sinners can spurn the lordship of Christ yet lay claim to Him as Savior. This issue is not a trivial one. In fact, how could any issue be more important? The gospel that is presented to unbelievers has eternal ramifications. If it is the true gospel, it can direct men and women into the everlasting kingdom. If it is a corrupted message, it can give unsaved people false hope while consigning them to eternal damnation. This is not merely a matter for theologians to discuss and debate and speculate about. This is an issue that every single pastor and lay person must understand in order that the gospel may be rightly proclaimed to all the nations."

this is from the Grace Community Church Distinctive on Lordship Salvation . It was adapted from John MacArthur's material on the topic of lordship salvation, and serves as an excellent introduction to the subject.
quote from this link :
An Introduction to Lordship Salvation

(works based salvation is considered off topic, and I will request that the thread be closed if too many posts show up with works based soteriology)

“Faith alone” is a misnomer.

It’s a man made term, not found in the Bible, other than describing dead faith.


Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
James 2:17


The “works” James refers to is obedience, not the works of the law, not good works, not work that earns a wage, but the corresponding act of obedience to the word from God By which we receive faith.




JLB
 
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fhansen

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I agree, and what about repentance? I posted a good article in post one about the necessity of repentance, feel free to read it. If you disagree with anything in that post, quote it, and we can talk about it further. Thanks for putting your two cents in.
Ninth, Scripture teaches that genuine believers may stumble and fall, but they will persevere in the faith (1 Corinthians 1:8). Those who later turn completely away from the Lord show that they were never truly born again (1 John 2:19). In contrast, easy-believism teaches that a true believer may utterly forsake Christ and come to the point of not believing. Most Christians recognize that these nine distinctives are not new or radical ideas. The preponderance of Bible-believing Christians over the centuries have held these to be basic tenets of orthodoxy. In fact, no major orthodox movement in the history of Christianity has ever taught that sinners can spurn the lordship of Christ yet lay claim to Him as Savior. This issue is not a trivial one. In fact, how could any issue be more important? The gospel that is presented to unbelievers has eternal ramifications. If it is the true gospel, it can direct men and women into the everlasting kingdom. If it is a corrupted message, it can give unsaved people false hope while consigning them to eternal damnation. This is not merely a matter for theologians to discuss and debate and speculate about. This is an issue that every single pastor and lay person must understand in order that the gospel may be rightly proclaimed to all the nations."
I agree for the most part but, while passages from Scripture can support different positions perhaps, I think we put the cart ahead of the horse if we insist that genuine believers cannot fall away, and that they will necessarily persevere. I understand the gospel to say that we can enter life, we can become new creations as we realize relationship with God through the work of God the Son, but that as with any relationship we can also break it; we can turn back away and reject Him all over again, just as Adam did at the beginning. Jesus tells us that we must remain in Him and He in us, that, "Apart from Me you can do nothing" (John 15:5). We must do our part in staying with Him, and not returning to living by the flesh.

Anyway, yes, if fallen away completely we'd need to have a change of heart again with genuine repentance, and God's forgiveness is inexhaustible.
 
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createdtoworship

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“Faith alone” is a misnomer.

It’s a man made term, not found in the Bible, other than describing dead faith.


Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
James 2:17


The “works” James refers to is obedience, not the works of the law, not good works, not work that earns a wage, but the corresponding act of obedience to the word from God By which we receive faith.




JLB
yes I agree. Some are saying that the works in question are before other believers. So 'evidence of faith" There is that too. I however agree with a more literal direct interpretation meaning that faith will change us. I wouldn't use the word works, as that directly contradicts grace. But I would use the word penitence of repentance, which does not contradict grace.
 
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JLB777

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yes I agree. Some are saying that the works in question are before other believers. So 'evidence of faith" There is that too. I however agree with a more literal direct interpretation meaning that faith will change us. I wouldn't use the word works, as that directly contradicts grace. But I would use the word penitence of repentance, which does not contradict grace.


Amen.


Repent in context with the Gospel, means turn to God in submission to Him as Lord.


This is an eternal commitment to obey Jesus Christ as Lord.


The way we repent is to confess Jesus As Lord.


that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:9-10


  • with the mouth confession is made unto salvation


If Jesus is our Lord, then we are to obey Him.


And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him, Hebrews 5:9




JLB
 
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createdtoworship

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I forgot (or did not notice) you are the lordship salvation person, from a past topic.
yes, I was a free gracer for five years, and I decided to just read the new testament in one sitting and just highlight all the repentance verses for salvation in blue, and highlight faith alone verses in green. I counted about fifteen verses speaking of faith alone without repentance, and over a hundred speaking of repentance from sin while being saved. It changed by soteriology over night literally. But don't get me wrong we are not saved by our performance. But repentance becomes a tool at salvation that we will use the rest of our christian life. If we miss the point of repentance at salvation, we can still be saved but it may take longer, and we may go through much carnal christian mentalities (years of disobedience), I was saved when I believed in Christ. But I didn't repent for over twenty years. I lived a carnal christian life. I don't think I wasn't saved. But when there were altar calls I would still go down. Something in me was telling me I needed to secure my salvation. I was at the time an OSAS once saved always saved calvinist. So I didn't think I wasn't saved, but still when there was an altar call, I would go down. What I realized was that years later, my spirit was telling me that while I was saved, I was not working my salvation out. I was living in sin with my girlfriend. And while still going to bible college. I was doing evangelism every week and praising the Lord, I was saved. But I still felt the need to get saved again during altar calls. That was my spirit telling me something was not right. I was in sin. I was making out with my girlfriend, and doing fornication with her, and God wanted me to live purely. Eventually she broke up with me because I had set a standard that our relationship was physical. And when I went to bible college that physical aspect was gone, there was no relationship left. And she dated one of my friends instead. God was working on my heart. So now I preach repentance. Works does not save. But if people realize that repentance is part of the gospel message, they will be more serious about their faith. It avoids luke warm christians. Those who confess with their mouth and deny with their life.
 
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yes, I was a free gracer for five years, and I decided to just read the new testament in one sitting and just highlight all the repentance verses for salvation in blue, and highlight faith alone verses in green. I counted about fifteen verses speaking of faith alone without repentance, and over a hundred speaking of repentance from sin while being saved. It changed by soteriology over night literally. But don't get me wrong we are not saved by our performance. But repentance becomes a tool at salvation that we will use the rest of our christian life. If we miss the point of repentance at salvation, we can still be saved but it may take longer, and we may go through much carnal christian mentalities (years of disobedience), I was saved when I believed in Christ. But I didn't repent for over twenty years. I lived a carnal christian life. I don't think I wasn't saved. But when there were altar calls I would still go down. Something in me was telling me I needed to secure my salvation. I was at the time an OSAS once saved always saved calvinist. So I didn't think I wasn't saved, but still when there was an altar call, I would go down. What I realized was that years later, my spirit was telling me that while I was saved, I was not working my salvation out. I was living in sin with my girlfriend. And while still going to bible college. I was doing evangelism every week and praising the Lord, I was saved. But I still felt the need to get saved again during altar calls. That was my spirit telling me something was not right. I was in sin. I was making out with my girlfriend, and doing fornication with her, and God wanted me to live purely. Eventually she broke up with me because I had set a standard that our relationship was physical. And when I went to bible college that physical aspect was gone, there was no relationship left. And she dated one of my friends instead. God was working on my heart. So now I preach repentance. Works does not save. But if people realize that repentance is part of the gospel message, they will be more serious about their faith. It avoids luke warm christians. Those who confess with their mouth and deny with their life.

I rejoice at your repentance and commitment to walk according to the Spirit. I do want to make one additional comment, and that is that Reformed doctrine affirms what you experienced. The term "OSAS" is not the same as the Reformed doctrine of eternal security. I'd be happy to explain the differences further, but I wanted to call attention to that because again as a Christian who holds to Reformed doctrine I affirm and celebrate your experience here.
 
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“Faith alone” is a misnomer.

It’s a man made term, not found in the Bible, other than describing dead faith.


Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
James 2:17


The “works” James refers to is obedience, not the works of the law, not good works, not work that earns a wage, but the corresponding act of obedience to the word from God By which we receive faith.




JLB


Good Day, JLB

I would refer you to some older editions of Scripture:

The Nuremberg Bible of 1483 had "allein durch den glauben," while the Italian Bibles of Geneva in 1476 and even 1538 had "per sola fide."

In Him,

Bill
 
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Amen.


Repent in context with the Gospel, means turn to God in submission to Him as Lord.


This is an eternal commitment to obey Jesus Christ as Lord.


The way we repent is to confess Jesus As Lord.


that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:9-10


  • with the mouth confession is made unto salvation


If Jesus is our Lord, then we are to obey Him.


And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him, Hebrews 5:9




JLB


Good Day, JBL

Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks...The new Heart given by God to His people under the New Covenant is the one that will believe, because it is made of flesh and not stone. The confession is the direct necessity (out working) of the heart that does indeed believe unto righteousness

For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:9-10


In Him,

Bill
 
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JLB777

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Good Day, JBL

Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks...The new Heart given by God to His people under the New Covenant is the one that will believe, because it is made of flesh and not stone. The confession is the direct necessity (out working) of the heart that does indeed believe unto righteousness

For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:9-10


In Him,

Bill

Thanks for your reply Bill.


Do you understand the principle of faith in this part of the verse you quoted?
  • and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
JLB
 
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JLB777

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Good Day, JLB

I would refer you to some older editions of Scripture:

The Nuremberg Bible of 1483 had "allein durch den glauben," while the Italian Bibles of Geneva in 1476 and even 1538 had "per sola fide."

In Him,

Bill


I’m sorry Bill, I don’t know what this means.
 
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Thanks for your reply Bill.


Do you understand the principle of faith in this part of the verse you quoted?
  • and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
JLB


Good Day, JLB

Sorry I mixed up you name..

Yes I do in the larger context...

For Moses writes about the righteousness that is based on the law, that the person who does the commandments shall live by them. 6 But the righteousness based on faith says, “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’” (that is, to bring Christ down) 7 “or ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim); 9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. 11 For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. 13 For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

In Him,

Bill
 
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createdtoworship

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I rejoice at your repentance and commitment to walk according to the Spirit. I do want to make one additional comment, and that is that Reformed doctrine affirms what you experienced. The term "OSAS" is not the same as the Reformed doctrine of eternal security. I'd be happy to explain the differences further, but I wanted to call attention to that because again as a Christian who holds to Reformed doctrine I affirm and celebrate your experience here.
I am sure there are other errors of reformed doctrine, but anyway that is why I don't adhere to dogma, just scripture.
 
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JLB777

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Good Day, JLB

Sorry I mixed up you name..

Yes I do in the larger context...

For Moses writes about the righteousness that is based on the law, that the person who does the commandments shall live by them. 6 But the righteousness based on faith says, “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’” (that is, to bring Christ down) 7 “or ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim); 9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. 11 For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. 13 For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

In Him,

Bill


Bill the principle of faith, found in Romans 10:10, is our obedient response to the Gospel command to repent.


Faith must have the corresponding action of obedience, or it remains dormant, inactive, or as James says, dead as a body without the Spirit is dead, being lifeless.


For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. James 2:26


The “work” that James refers to in this context, is the action of obedience.


Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? James 2:21-22


  • Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar?


The “work” by which Abraham was justified, was he responded to God in obedience, to offer his son Issac on the altar.


Not the works of the law.
Not good works
Not work that earns a wage

But the obedience of faith.

This is what faith, (that we receive from God, when He speaks to us directly or indirectly through one He sends to preach the Gospel), requires in order to be complete and activated to function and produce the intended divine result.


Paul calls this principle or law, the obedience of faith.


But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: Romans 16:26


To be continued...




JLB
 
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createdtoworship

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Bill the principle of faith, found in Romans 10:10, is our obedient response to the Gospel command to repent.


Faith must have the corresponding action of obedience, or it remains dormant, inactive, or as James says, dead as a body without the Spirit is dead, being lifeless.


For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. James 2:26


The “work” that James refers to in this context, is the action of obedience.


Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? James 2:21-22


  • Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar?


The “work” by which Abraham was justified, was he responded to God in obedience, to offer his son Issac on the altar.


Not the works of the law.
Not good works
Not work that earns a wage

But the obedience of faith.

This is what faith, (that we receive from God, when He speaks to us directly or indirectly through one He sends to preach the Gospel), requires in order to be complete and activated to function and produce the intended divine result.


Paul calls this principle or law, the obedience of faith.


But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: Romans 16:26


To be continued...




JLB
be careful how you describe obedience, salvation by works is off topic for this thread. However if you wish to reword it to repentance, penitance that is ok. But salvation by merit, obedience or works is off topic.
 
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OK, here are a few quotes from Sproul Jr's article (that I am hoping will help explain things a bit):

If there are five, how can even one of them be called sola?

It does, of course, in the end make perfect sense. The alones are not alone because they are talking, in a manner of speaking, on different wavelengths ... What sola Scriptura (for instance) is seeking to keep out isn’t grace, faith, Christ, or God’s glory. It’s trying to keep out unbiblical tradition. Grace alone doesn’t exclude the Bible, faith, Christ, or the glory of God.

In a very real sense, though they spin on different axes, these five are one ... The solas are precise and potent affirmations of this truth—it’s all about God.

The Solas are like 5 sides of the same coin, if we had 5-sided coins, that is ;) They all point to one truth, that it's not about us, it's all about God. For instance, the 5 Solas tell us, from different angles or POV, that our salvation (which is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, apart from any works that 'we' do) is by Christ alone.

His righteousness (as a man, resulted from the perfectly righteous life that He led for us before His Father .. the righteous life that we were 'supposed' to live) is credited to our accounts by His Father, while our sins are credited to His account .. e.g. 2 Corinthians 5:21. So, by His righteous life we become righteous, and by His death, our sins (and the Father's wrath) are atoned for/satisfied, and we become innocent again.

The Reformers used the 5 Solas to address different Biblical heresies (that's why there are 5), but they all point back to that same Biblical truth that we just discussed above (they point us away from a man-centered salvation and back towards the Biblical one that can only be found in Christ. We are then, in a very real sense, saved from God, by God, for God).

So the answer to your OP poll question, "are we saved 1. by grace alone or 2. through faith alone" is "yes" :) (remember that the phrase grace alone is not seeking to exclude faith, rather, it seeks to tell us that our works have nothing to do with our salvation, only Christ's works do .. e.g. Romans 4:5, 11:6).

I hope that helps a bit, but please let me know if it didn't (I didn't have the time that I would have liked to have had tonight to give you a better constructed/thought-out answer). In fact, if the Lord helps me come up with a better way to explain all/part of this, I'll get back to you with those thoughts.

Blessings to you in Christ,
David

While it is not always the case, a word used to describe a particular science, or belief, etc. should be indicative of how it sounds. A definition should fit what the label says. If we say "Sola" or "Alone" and then we define it to mean that such a thing is not alone, it is contradictory.

If I buy a bottle of 100% pure water and it turns out it is not 100% pure water, then the package on the bottle is lying.

I raised this issue with the label called "Sola Scriptura." While I am 100% for the teaching of Sola Scriptura, I believe we need the understanding by God or the Spirit as a part of knowing God's Word. Men and his own wisdom cannot teach us the Bible alone. Only God can truly illuminate our understanding of what His Word says.

I made this point in this thread here:

Reevaluating the term Sola Scriptura (Bible alone + God giving understanding on it is the truth).

Anyways, I do not want to side track the thread. May folks carry on. I just wanted to quickly address what you wrote here.

Blessings to you in the Lord today.
 
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