President Trump defends prayer in schools

Hammster

Psalm 144:1
Christian Forums Staff
Site Advisor
Supporter
Apr 5, 2007
140,012
25,180
55
New Jerusalem
Visit site
✟1,718,892.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
GIven that one of this President's first acts was to ban Muslims from entering the country, until it ran afoul of the courts, does anyone seriously believe that Trump has any interest in upholding the rights of individual Muslim students to worship in public schools?
Well, you addressed what I thought the issue was.
 
Upvote 0

The Barbarian

Crabby Old White Guy
Apr 3, 2003
25,918
11,305
76
✟363,350.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
Why would he defend a right that the ACLU has already forced numerous schools to support? Prayer is permitted in every public school in America. What's not permitted, and what his far-right religious kooks want, is to force every public school student to recite a particular prayer.

If a kid want to worship as a Christian in public school, all he has to do is pray in any way that doesn't interfere with classroom time or the rights of other students. If he wants to worship with other Christians, all he has to do is form a chapter of the Fellowship of Christian Athletes, as my daughter did.

No, freedom isn't what those guys want; they want the power to trample the rights of everyone else.
 
Upvote 0

timothyu

Well-Known Member
Dec 31, 2018
22,443
8,397
up there
✟303,892.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
If a kid want to worship as a Christian in public school, all he has to do is pray in any way that doesn't interfere with classroom time or the rights of other students.
Just like a gay couple can get married in a civil service without demanding a church wedding? Extremists usually have an all or nothing attitude.
 
Upvote 0

timothyu

Well-Known Member
Dec 31, 2018
22,443
8,397
up there
✟303,892.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
I remember when school sponsored prayer ended. It had no effect on us. Bad kids were just like they were before and good kids were as well.
True enough and most kids just repeated it daily without ever really thinking about it. Kinda like a lot of the adults.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Yarddog
Upvote 0

Yarddog

Senior Contributor
Supporter
Jun 25, 2008
15,265
3,542
Louisville, Ky
✟812,249.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
True enough and most kids just repeated it daily without ever really thinking about it. Kinda like a lot of the adults.
Too many parents are lazy and pawn their responsibilities on the schools, daycares, churches, etc...
 
Upvote 0

timothyu

Well-Known Member
Dec 31, 2018
22,443
8,397
up there
✟303,892.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Too many parents are lazy and pawn their responsibilities on the schools, daycares, churches, etc...
Usually because they are told that is what they are supposed to do. As far as churches goes, that goes back thousands of years.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Thomas White

Well-Known Member
Feb 9, 2020
1,193
705
37
Stockbridge
✟78,796.00
Country
United States
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Married
To be clear, prayer is not illegal in schools in the United States. Students, teachers, etc. can pray in schools. School staff members cannot lead mass prayer or require that students pray. This is a GOOD thing. The separation of church and state is a good thing. Without that separation, the government would have free reign to control religion. Yes, teachers could lead students in prayer, but that prayer would be dictated by the government, not the hearts of those praying. There would be no requirement to remain true to Christian teachings.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: The Barbarian
Upvote 0

The Barbarian

Crabby Old White Guy
Apr 3, 2003
25,918
11,305
76
✟363,350.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
To be clear, prayer is not illegal in schools in the United States. Students, teachers, etc. can pray in schools. School staff members cannot lead mass prayer or require that students pray. This is a GOOD thing. The separation of church and state is a good thing. Without that separation, the government would have free reign to control religion. Yes, teachers could lead students in prayer, but that prayer would be dictated by the government, not the hearts of those praying. There would be no requirement to remain true to Christian teachings.

Yep. Well said. God neither needs nor wants government enforcement of Christianity.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Thomas White
Upvote 0

Hammster

Psalm 144:1
Christian Forums Staff
Site Advisor
Supporter
Apr 5, 2007
140,012
25,180
55
New Jerusalem
Visit site
✟1,718,892.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
Why would he defend a right that the ACLU has already forced numerous schools to support? Prayer is permitted in every public school in America. What's not permitted, and what his far-right religious kooks want, is to force every public school student to recite a particular prayer.
I’d be interested in your evidence.
 
Upvote 0

Thomas White

Well-Known Member
Feb 9, 2020
1,193
705
37
Stockbridge
✟78,796.00
Country
United States
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Married
Actually the fear was the other way around as was seen in England and the rest of Europe.

Many fled Europe to the New World because the government dictated how they should practice religion. The government, if allowed, will always use religion as a method of social control.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Pioneer3mm
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Hammster

Psalm 144:1
Christian Forums Staff
Site Advisor
Supporter
Apr 5, 2007
140,012
25,180
55
New Jerusalem
Visit site
✟1,718,892.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
And that is what infuriates the religious right.
Really?

First, please define “religious right”. After that, pleas present the evidence that this group wants forced prayer.
 
Upvote 0

timothyu

Well-Known Member
Dec 31, 2018
22,443
8,397
up there
✟303,892.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
The government, if allowed, will always use religion as a method of social control.
True, that is what Constantine did. But at the same time in England and Europe, the church dictated to the Kings which in many cases they gave the title to, and that was not to be the case in the 13 colonies was it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Thomas White
Upvote 0

Thomas White

Well-Known Member
Feb 9, 2020
1,193
705
37
Stockbridge
✟78,796.00
Country
United States
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Married
True, that is what Constantine did. But at the same time in England and Europe, the church dictated to the Kings which in many cases they gave the title to, and that was not to be the case in the 13 colonies was it.

It wasn't after the colonies split from Britain because of the separation of church and state. But I'm pretty sure the men and women of New England could tell you the dangers of theocracy. Rather, they could had they not been burned at the stake because they practiced their beliefs in a way different from what the Puritans thought was right.

The Church dictated to many European monarchies because they had the political influence to do so. Church and state blended, and caused a plethora of problems. Kings used religion to justify the Crusades. Religious power should never be in the hands of political leaders. It is dangerous.
 
Upvote 0

timothyu

Well-Known Member
Dec 31, 2018
22,443
8,397
up there
✟303,892.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Rather, they could had they not been burned at the stake because they practiced their beliefs in a way different from what the Puritans thought was right.
Precisely the problem of having religion dictate government.

The Church dictated to many European monarchies because they had the political influence to do so. Church and state blended, and caused a plethora of problems. Kings used religion to justify the Crusades. Religious power should never be in the hands of political leaders. It is dangerous.

All because the church abandoned the Kingdom of God to rejoin the world of man in Constantine's time and become kingdom builders in their own image rather than God's, accepting the power Jesus turned down in the desert.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: The Barbarian
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Yarddog

Senior Contributor
Supporter
Jun 25, 2008
15,265
3,542
Louisville, Ky
✟812,249.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Usually because they are told that is what they are supposed to do. .
Who tells them that? I've never heard anyone make that claim.

From the time my son entered school or started playing sports, I made every practice, game, school event, etc... but only a few parents would do that. Most dropped them off and left. It was sad.
 
Upvote 0