Biblical sufficiency vs Modern Questions?

Jamdoc

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A lot of pastors and Christians believe in the doctrine of biblical sufficiency, but often times they get asked questions that the bible just does not directly address and the best they can do is to go on a general principle.
One that comes up a lot is should a Christian use Medical Marijuana, or even should a Christian use Marijuana recreationally. While when the law in the US was that it was strictly illegal, that was an easy question to answer because Romans 13 teaches us to abide by the laws of the land, even the secular ones, because God put that authority in place. But now states and even some countries like Canada are legalizing it even for recreational use. Then it becomes more of a stretch and many cite scripture about sorcery and justify that the word for sorcery is the same as pharmacy, but isn't directly related, or scripture referring to alcohol and making a stretch to make it cover all intoxicants, or just the commands to be sober minded in general.
Now as far as recreational goes, they're probably right along the lines of needing to be sober minded. But when it comes to medical use it becomes murky, because a person might be using opioid pain relievers truly just to alleviate severe pain, not to get intoxicated but intoxication is a side effect. They may have use of marijuana when other pharmaceutical agents have failed for various conditions, chronic pain and inflammation, seizure disorders, as an adjunct to chemotherapy in cancer, etc.
so as a Christian you're in a bind. Do you use the medication that helps with medical symptoms that your doctor has prescribed for you, or do you obey the command to be sober minded even if you're in so much pain that it distracts you from all other things (which is in a way, also not being sober minded, you can't focus on God when your focus is pretty much railroaded on pleasure that does not come from God, OR on pain). The bible doesn't really address it, and faith leaders and pastors you may ask, can only give their opinions based on leaps of logic from scripture about other topics.

That is just one example but there are others that in modern life, the bible just doesn't seem to address.
It's hard to me to adhere to biblical sufficiency when I come to a situation and think "what does the bible say about (x)?" and the answer is nothing, it says nothing, so it doesn't help as a guide there and all I can go with are human opinions and leaps of logic which are never consistent.
 
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A lot of pastors and Christians believe in the doctrine of biblical sufficiency, but often times they get asked questions that the bible just does not directly address and the best they can do is to go on a general principle.
One that comes up a lot is should a Christian use Medical Marijuana, or even should a Christian use Marijuana recreationally. While when the law in the US was that it was strictly illegal, that was an easy question to answer because Romans 13 teaches us to abide by the laws of the land, even the secular ones, because God put that authority in place. But now states and even some countries like Canada are legalizing it even for recreational use. Then it becomes more of a stretch and many cite scripture about sorcery and justify that the word for sorcery is the same as pharmacy, but isn't directly related, or scripture referring to alcohol and making a stretch to make it cover all intoxicants, or just the commands to be sober minded in general.
Now as far as recreational goes, they're probably right along the lines of needing to be sober minded. But when it comes to medical use it becomes murky, because a person might be using opioid pain relievers truly just to alleviate severe pain, not to get intoxicated but intoxication is a side effect. They may have use of marijuana when other pharmaceutical agents have failed for various conditions, chronic pain and inflammation, seizure disorders, as an adjunct to chemotherapy in cancer, etc.
so as a Christian you're in a bind. Do you use the medication that helps with medical symptoms that your doctor has prescribed for you, or do you obey the command to be sober minded even if you're in so much pain that it distracts you from all other things (which is in a way, also not being sober minded, you can't focus on God when your focus is pretty much railroaded on pleasure that does not come from God, OR on pain). The bible doesn't really address it, and faith leaders and pastors you may ask, can only give their opinions based on leaps of logic from scripture about other topics.

That is just one example but there are others that in modern life, the bible just doesn't seem to address.
It's hard to me to adhere to biblical sufficiency when I come to a situation and think "what does the bible say about (x)?" and the answer is nothing, it says nothing, so it doesn't help as a guide there and all I can go with are human opinions and leaps of logic which are never consistent.

Just like alcohol, people are going to use it, and so it is with marijuana. So why not make it legal and get the tax money from it. Moderation in everything is the rule.
 
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Thomas White

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I am pasting this from a discussion I had earlier, so it is not going to be directly addressing you. Please ignore anything that may seem as though I am talking to another


Are you saying the entirety of God, the infinite majesty and power that is God, is contained in a single book? 783,137 words explains everything that God is? It breaks down how he manipulated atoms and joined together the elements to create a sustainable ecosystem capable of supporting life?

That single fact of God's truth would be difficult to completely explain in 783,137 words. God is infinite. As such, his Word is infinite. As he cannot be contained or comprehended, so his Word cannot be contained or comprehended. He has revealed himself, but it will take us eternity to comprehend him.

This does not mean the Bible is wrong. It only means that the people who wrote it used the words and frames of reference available to them to explain what God has revealed. As we have taken in more of his revelation, we have gained a better understanding. Hundreds of years from now, that understanding will seem like ignorance because humanity will have gained better tools to understand Creation. Hundreds of years from that point, that understanding will also seem like ignorance. And so it will continue. Because God is infinite, because Creation is infinite, we will never fully understand it. We will simply be given the chance to comprehend it.
 
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Aussie Pete

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A lot of pastors and Christians believe in the doctrine of biblical sufficiency, but often times they get asked questions that the bible just does not directly address and the best they can do is to go on a general principle.
One that comes up a lot is should a Christian use Medical Marijuana, or even should a Christian use Marijuana recreationally. While when the law in the US was that it was strictly illegal, that was an easy question to answer because Romans 13 teaches us to abide by the laws of the land, even the secular ones, because God put that authority in place. But now states and even some countries like Canada are legalizing it even for recreational use. Then it becomes more of a stretch and many cite scripture about sorcery and justify that the word for sorcery is the same as pharmacy, but isn't directly related, or scripture referring to alcohol and making a stretch to make it cover all intoxicants, or just the commands to be sober minded in general.
Now as far as recreational goes, they're probably right along the lines of needing to be sober minded. But when it comes to medical use it becomes murky, because a person might be using opioid pain relievers truly just to alleviate severe pain, not to get intoxicated but intoxication is a side effect. They may have use of marijuana when other pharmaceutical agents have failed for various conditions, chronic pain and inflammation, seizure disorders, as an adjunct to chemotherapy in cancer, etc.
so as a Christian you're in a bind. Do you use the medication that helps with medical symptoms that your doctor has prescribed for you, or do you obey the command to be sober minded even if you're in so much pain that it distracts you from all other things (which is in a way, also not being sober minded, you can't focus on God when your focus is pretty much railroaded on pleasure that does not come from God, OR on pain). The bible doesn't really address it, and faith leaders and pastors you may ask, can only give their opinions based on leaps of logic from scripture about other topics.

That is just one example but there are others that in modern life, the bible just doesn't seem to address.
It's hard to me to adhere to biblical sufficiency when I come to a situation and think "what does the bible say about (x)?" and the answer is nothing, it says nothing, so it doesn't help as a guide there and all I can go with are human opinions and leaps of logic which are never consistent.
Good question. The Bible is not an instruction manual for right living. We need to know the truth because it is the Truth that sets us free. Some principles are obvious. That we should not commit adultery is open and shut. Others, not so much. Such as your hypothetical which could easily become a real life question.

We need to seek God for wisdom. He can show us what to do in any situation, even when there is not clear cut answer in the Bible.

I was in the military when I got saved. There are many Christians who insist on obeying the Sabbath laws. War does not take a break for Saturday or Sunday. Just leaving was not an option. I tried and failed to get out of the Navy. Legalistically, I should have been stoned to death. Some of the posters here would be clapping and cheering if I was.

The answer is to seek the Lord and ask for His guidance. He has given us His Holy Spirit to lead us into the truth. The Holy Spirit will always be consistent with the character of God and will not contradict God's word. That's how we can be sure that the guidance we receive is of God.
 
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Jamdoc

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I am pasting this from a discussion I had earlier, so it is not going to be directly addressing you. Please ignore anything that may seem as though I am talking to another


Are you saying the entirety of God, the infinite majesty and power that is God, is contained in a single book? 783,137 words explains everything that God is? It breaks down how he manipulated atoms and joined together the elements to create a sustainable ecosystem capable of supporting life?

That single fact of God's truth would be difficult to completely explain in 783,137 words. God is infinite. As such, his Word is infinite. As he cannot be contained or comprehended, so his Word cannot be contained or comprehended. He has revealed himself, but it will take us eternity to comprehend him.

This does not mean the Bible is wrong. It only means that the people who wrote it used the words and frames of reference available to them to explain what God has revealed. As we have taken in more of his revelation, we have gained a better understanding. Hundreds of years from now, that understanding will seem like ignorance because humanity will have gained better tools to understand Creation. Hundreds of years from that point, that understanding will also seem like ignorance. And so it will continue. Because God is infinite, because Creation is infinite, we will never fully understand it. We will simply be given the chance to comprehend it.

I agree with all of this, but people preach a doctrine of biblical sufficiency and I feel it puts God into a box and declares that God can't be outside of this box, and that human life is in this box and all our answers are in this box and anything outside of this box is irrelevant even if it impacts your life a lot.
It's then a huge challenge, to try and figure out God outside of the confines of that box, all we have is the box to work with that we know for sure is of God, and everything else is either not of God, or it is speculation.
It's just a huge challenge.
 
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Jamdoc

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Good question. The Bible is not an instruction manual for right living. We need to know the truth because it is the Truth that sets us free. Some principles are obvious. That we should not commit adultery is open and shut. Others, not so much. Such as your hypothetical which could easily become a real life question.

We need to seek God for wisdom. He can show us what to do in any situation, even when there is not clear cut answer in the Bible.

I was in the military when I got saved. There are many Christians who insist on obeying the Sabbath laws. War does not take a break for Saturday or Sunday. Just leaving was not an option. I tried and failed to get out of the Navy. Legalistically, I should have been stoned to death. Some of the posters here would be clapping and cheering if I was.

The answer is to seek the Lord and ask for His guidance. He has given us His Holy Spirit to lead us into the truth. The Holy Spirit will always be consistent with the character of God and will not contradict God's word. That's how we can be sure that the guidance we receive is of God.
Well, for sabbath law, Christians are freed of that because Christ fulfilled it. Colossians 2 clears that up. Now on deployment, yes, you don't get holiday routine (but you do have Deployed Chaplains with you), but in Garrison I was able to go to church on Sundays myself.
But observance of Sabbath on the Saturdays is not something Christians are required to do.
 
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I am pasting this from a discussion I had earlier, so it is not going to be directly addressing you. Please ignore anything that may seem as though I am talking to another


Are you saying the entirety of God, the infinite majesty and power that is God, is contained in a single book? 783,137 words explains everything that God is? It breaks down how he manipulated atoms and joined together the elements to create a sustainable ecosystem capable of supporting life?

That single fact of God's truth would be difficult to completely explain in 783,137 words. God is infinite. As such, his Word is infinite. As he cannot be contained or comprehended, so his Word cannot be contained or comprehended. He has revealed himself, but it will take us eternity to comprehend him.

This does not mean the Bible is wrong. It only means that the people who wrote it used the words and frames of reference available to them to explain what God has revealed. As we have taken in more of his revelation, we have gained a better understanding. Hundreds of years from now, that understanding will seem like ignorance because humanity will have gained better tools to understand Creation. Hundreds of years from that point, that understanding will also seem like ignorance. And so it will continue. Because God is infinite, because Creation is infinite, we will never fully understand it. We will simply be given the chance to comprehend it.
Like John said of his own Gospel account:
John 20:30-31
And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
 
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Carl Emerson

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As long as our conclusions agree with what is inside the box...

Then our safeguard is not our individual inner witness but our corporate inner witness as we are in mutual submission together with others in unity. Sadly this is a rare commodity. Yet if the very elect are not to be deceived they must have this whether the church provides it or not. It is in this atmosphere (unity) that the discernment gifts operate.
 
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Thomas White

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I agree with all of this, but people preach a doctrine of biblical sufficiency and I feel it puts God into a box and declares that God can't be outside of this box, and that human life is in this box and all our answers are in this box and anything outside of this box is irrelevant even if it impacts your life a lot.
It's then a huge challenge, to try and figure out God outside of the confines of that box, all we have is the box to work with that we know for sure is of God, and everything else is either not of God, or it is speculation.
It's just a huge challenge.

It definitely is. Jesus is the light, but few prefer the light. Jesus told us as much. Most believers will tell you that the Bible contains every truth of existence. They will maintain that nothing else matters. They will box God in to a few pages. Few will understand that God is beyond that. We are hindered by our limited perspective and cannot properly understand that.
 
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Well, for sabbath law, Christians are freed of that because Christ fulfilled it. Colossians 2 clears that up. Now on deployment, yes, you don't get holiday routine (but you do have Deployed Chaplains with you), but in Garrison I was able to go to church on Sundays myself.
But observance of Sabbath on the Saturdays is not something Christians are required to do.
Agree entirely - but a lot who post here do not. And the Australian Navy did not deploy chaplains at sea in my time (1970's)
 
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JIMINZ

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I agree with all of this, but people preach a doctrine of biblical sufficiency and I feel it puts God into a box and declares that God can't be outside of this box, and that human life is in this box and all our answers are in this box and anything outside of this box is irrelevant even if it impacts your life a lot.
It's then a huge challenge, to try and figure out God outside of the confines of that box, all we have is the box to work with that we know for sure is of God, and everything else is either not of God, or it is speculation.
It's just a huge challenge.

Just what is in the box you keep talking about, that you want an answer to outside of the box?
 
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Hazelelponi

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A lot of pastors and Christians believe in the doctrine of biblical sufficiency, but often times they get asked questions that the bible just does not directly address and the best they can do is to go on a general principle.
One that comes up a lot is should a Christian use Medical Marijuana, or even should a Christian use Marijuana recreationally. While when the law in the US was that it was strictly illegal, that was an easy question to answer because Romans 13 teaches us to abide by the laws of the land, even the secular ones, because God put that authority in place. But now states and even some countries like Canada are legalizing it even for recreational use. Then it becomes more of a stretch and many cite scripture about sorcery and justify that the word for sorcery is the same as pharmacy, but isn't directly related, or scripture referring to alcohol and making a stretch to make it cover all intoxicants, or just the commands to be sober minded in general.
Now as far as recreational goes, they're probably right along the lines of needing to be sober minded. But when it comes to medical use it becomes murky, because a person might be using opioid pain relievers truly just to alleviate severe pain, not to get intoxicated but intoxication is a side effect. They may have use of marijuana when other pharmaceutical agents have failed for various conditions, chronic pain and inflammation, seizure disorders, as an adjunct to chemotherapy in cancer, etc.
so as a Christian you're in a bind. Do you use the medication that helps with medical symptoms that your doctor has prescribed for you, or do you obey the command to be sober minded even if you're in so much pain that it distracts you from all other things (which is in a way, also not being sober minded, you can't focus on God when your focus is pretty much railroaded on pleasure that does not come from God, OR on pain). The bible doesn't really address it, and faith leaders and pastors you may ask, can only give their opinions based on leaps of logic from scripture about other topics.

That is just one example but there are others that in modern life, the bible just doesn't seem to address.
It's hard to me to adhere to biblical sufficiency when I come to a situation and think "what does the bible say about (x)?" and the answer is nothing, it says nothing, so it doesn't help as a guide there and all I can go with are human opinions and leaps of logic which are never consistent.

I think it was Timothy who was told to drink a little wine for medical purposes (or maybe it was Paul.) I'd have to look it up.

We can use substances that have a potentially intoxicating affect for medical reasons. Just because it's modern day doesn't change that simple fact because we can apply that same principle to any of our modern medicines.

We have to be careful with anything we do use, and avoid any potential overuse or excess beyond strict need.

Things like marijuana I would do serious research on. There are no end of studies and scholarly articles telling you that in cases of pain and mental health it can actually make a patient worse over time, rather than better, and these studies are being drowned out and shouted down, in this atmosphere which is pushing for legalization.

UNSW study finds no strong evidence that cannabis reduces chronic pain

^^^ 4 year study shows pain may actually increase, make pain less manageable and does not decrease the need for the use of opiates for pain control in pain patients.

Mental Health - The Health Effects of Cannabis and Cannabinoids - NCBI Bookshelf

^^ can increase risk for serious psychiatric illness.

There is a lot of negative out there, so I would caution jumping on any bandwagon.

As far as the sufficiency of scripture, there is enough we can extrapolate from scripture to provide us a balanced Christian life in any age, because there's nothing new under the sun. (Thats in the Bible too.)

People haven't changed... we are still just as human.
 
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Jeshu

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That is just one example but there are others that in modern life, the bible just doesn't seem to address.
It's hard to me to adhere to biblical sufficiency when I come to a situation and think "what does the bible say about (x)?" and the answer is nothing, it says nothing, so it doesn't help as a guide there and all I can go with are human opinions and leaps of logic which are never consistent.

The bible does address it as far as i'm concerned.

The so called drug laws are unbiblical as they deny the usage of God's herbs which God Himself has given to all of us to use.

Genesis 9:3 "Everything that lives and moves about will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything."
 
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Thomas White

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Just what is in the box you keep talking about, that you want an answer to outside of the box?

The box is human perspective. It limited and cannot contain God or his Truth. God continuously reveals himself to us, and a box cannot hold the revelation.
 
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Thomas White

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The bible does address it as far as i'm concerned.

The so called drug laws are unbiblical as they deny the usage of God's herbs which God Himself has given to all of us to use.

Genesis 9:3 "Everything that lives and moves about will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything."

I'm curious as to your opinion on the following. If someone takes methamphetamine and destroys their life attempting to chase the high, should methamphetamine be illegal? I'm trying to figure out where I stand on drugs beyond weed. I work in a prison. I've seen what happens when someone mixes different drugs. Two spine surgeries and a shoulder surgery later, my opinion is leaning towards keeping it illegal.
 
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Hazelelponi

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I'm curious as to your opinion on the following. If someone takes methamphetamine and destroys their life attempting to chase the high, should methamphetamine be illegal? I'm trying to figure out where I stand on drugs beyond weed. I work in prison. I've seen what happens when someone mixes different drugs. Two spine surgeries and a shoulder surgery later, my opinion is leaning towards keeping it illegal.

The Bible only addresses issues for believers... it pertains to those who are God's people.

"What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?" 1 Corinthians 5:12

When we look at things we should or shouldn't support politically our vision needs to be farther ranging.

We at that point must decide what we ourselves can support according to our morals, and what would be good for society at large i.e. what kind of society do we want to live in, what makes a society safe for all people etc.
 
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DNB

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A lot of pastors and Christians believe in the doctrine of biblical sufficiency, but often times they get asked questions that the bible just does not directly address and the best they can do is to go on a general principle.
One that comes up a lot is should a Christian use Medical Marijuana, or even should a Christian use Marijuana recreationally. While when the law in the US was that it was strictly illegal, that was an easy question to answer because Romans 13 teaches us to abide by the laws of the land, even the secular ones, because God put that authority in place. But now states and even some countries like Canada are legalizing it even for recreational use. Then it becomes more of a stretch and many cite scripture about sorcery and justify that the word for sorcery is the same as pharmacy, but isn't directly related, or scripture referring to alcohol and making a stretch to make it cover all intoxicants, or just the commands to be sober minded in general.
Now as far as recreational goes, they're probably right along the lines of needing to be sober minded. But when it comes to medical use it becomes murky, because a person might be using opioid pain relievers truly just to alleviate severe pain, not to get intoxicated but intoxication is a side effect. They may have use of marijuana when other pharmaceutical agents have failed for various conditions, chronic pain and inflammation, seizure disorders, as an adjunct to chemotherapy in cancer, etc.
so as a Christian you're in a bind. Do you use the medication that helps with medical symptoms that your doctor has prescribed for you, or do you obey the command to be sober minded even if you're in so much pain that it distracts you from all other things (which is in a way, also not being sober minded, you can't focus on God when your focus is pretty much railroaded on pleasure that does not come from God, OR on pain). The bible doesn't really address it, and faith leaders and pastors you may ask, can only give their opinions based on leaps of logic from scripture about other topics.

That is just one example but there are others that in modern life, the bible just doesn't seem to address.
It's hard to me to adhere to biblical sufficiency when I come to a situation and think "what does the bible say about (x)?" and the answer is nothing, it says nothing, so it doesn't help as a guide there and all I can go with are human opinions and leaps of logic which are never consistent.
Of course, the Bible cannot address every single human issue that arises, first of all, because of the complex and ever changing world that we live in, and secondly, it doesn't need to, the principles are all related. If it's not derived from love, or pertains solely to gratify the flesh and not the spirit, then it's prohibited. ...I consider health issues in regard to healing, to have profound spiritual implications, and thus, are not classified as 'of the flesh'. As opposed to exercising for vanity, beauty related diets, ....
I am 200% percent against recreational drugs, or any form of intoxication for recreational use. But, I would definitely use marijuana for an ailment, methodone, demerol or whatever the Doctor prescribes to alleviate the pain, or induce healing. The intent is clear, as much as Jesus and his disciples breaking the Sabbath for the sake of their health. And as @Hazelelponi said, Paul prescribed Timothy to drink wine, I believe a case in point!
 
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DNB

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Just like alcohol, people are going to use it, and so it is with marijuana. So why not make it legal and get the tax money from it. Moderation in everything is the rule.
What about sleeping around, 'people are going to do it anyhow'?
Shame on you!
 
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Jamdoc

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Just what is in the box you keep talking about, that you want an answer to outside of the box?
I was just meaning putting boundaries on God, and if you have a problem that's not within those boundaries, where do you even go?
 
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I'm curious as to your opinion on the following. If someone takes methamphetamine and destroys their life attempting to chase the high, should methamphetamine be illegal? I'm trying to figure out where I stand on drugs beyond weed. I work in a prison. I've seen what happens when someone mixes different drugs. Two spine surgeries and a shoulder surgery later, my opinion is leaning towards keeping it illegal.
I'm gonna say as far as human secular laws, in a country that has religious freedom, it's hard to base our laws on any religious doctrine because that'd require adopting a state religion to use as a standard, which then excludes religious freedom of others. That gets us into a whole mess of problems where what if you have your law based on a denomination that you don't follow or things in your denomination are then prohibited? Say the US law is based on Catholicism, and so baptism under law is defined by sprinkling holy water and it's required for newborns? Now you, as a baptist that believes in believer's baptism by immersion, how do you manage that? Seems a little silly but remember the Catholic Church pretty much controlled an entire continent for over 1000 years, and people were burned at the stake for doctrinal differences.
So.. the secular laws of the nation should be on a different standard of just making a society as free as possible but without causing harm to other people, and there will be overlap on some of those laws like murder rape, theft, etc.
However that does not make drug abuse something people should do just because those things are legal. Especially not as a Christian. 1 Corinthians 10:23. Which you could say as a general guideline, that even if it's legal you have to evaluate is this beneficial or not? In the case of Marijuana, recreational, there is harm, and no benefit, medically there can be benefit that outweighs harm.
 
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