Why is it ok to be a fat pastor but not a gay pastor?

[Salvadore]

I don't really even understand this comparison. We see multiple verses in the New Testament which condemn homosexuality as being completely wrong, and that homosexuals will not go to Heaven.

I can't find a single verse claiming that gluttony is a damnable offense.[/QU

Paul identifies the flesh and it's manifestations in our behavior as the real problem.

Gal 5:19-21 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Do you accept the warning that Paul gave us.

As a Christian you cannot live a life of debauchery?

Paul said 'those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.'

There will be few in heaven then because all people are sinners. What is the answer? Live a perfect life? Why did Jesus give His life again?

 

[Salvadore]

Indeed it is a struggle that most people will not understand. I am not gay but I know what it is to struggle. I will not judge you. I am very empathic to your plight. God knows our hearts and our struggles. I don't like when people call homosexuality a choice. Maybe it is for some. Not for a first grade child though. Not for all.

I think the fact that people struggle with particular sin shows they are trying to overcome. It reminds me of what Paul said about doing things he did not want to do.

 

[Salvadore]

And this is one of the many reasons so many people have a problem with Christians.

But don't have a problem with Jesus (honestly)

 

[Salvadore]

So when does one go from struggling with sin to living in sin? Does it have to be everyday? It just seems real convenient for people to say I don’t struggle with my sin as much as this person so I’m in a better spot”.

How do we, as Christians, feel safe in our salvation? The people in my church do not feel safe. They worry about whether they will go to heaven or not. How can we live the abundant life if we think this way? We would live in fear.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

The bible clearly states that gluttony is a sin and that the body is a temple of the holy spirit and should be honored.

It would seem then that people who are overweight are clearly in sin (barring medical conditions)

So why is it acceptable to be a fat pastor in sin, but not a gay pastor in sin?

It is a fact, proved by research, that the problem with weight gain is basically biological. There is an interesting article written about why many who lost weight on Jenny Craig, put it back on after a short time. The conclusion was that the body is programmed to want to gain weight rather than lose it. This is why person who has lost weight through a programme like Jenny Craig needs to be extra vigilant and disciplined in his or her diet. The moment the person relaxes, the body starts gaining weight.

Most overweight people increase in weight gradually over time. It is because many do not live active lives, and so their food intake is more than what they can burn off in energy. Also, many do not have sufficient knowledge in nutrition to be able to know that consuming sugary and high carbohydrate food gives excess energy which the body stores as fat. All that diets like Jenny Craig do is to give a diet with the appropriate balance between carbohydrates, protein and fat. We need all three to function in a healthy way, but they must be in the correct proportions in order to maintain a healthy body weight.

So, to say that an overweight person is "clearly in sin" is incorrect, and is definitely not helpful to someone who is struggling with weight gain and is working hard to keep his or her weight under control.

The person who says that "over-weight people are clearly in sin" is committing a worse sin - lack of love toward his neighbor. If there are those who are concerned with the welfare of overweight people, then they should put their money where their mouths are, and start up a class to educate these ones in proper nutrition and how to have a balanced, healthy diet. In some ways, there needs to be an unbalanced diet in order to lose the excess weight, and once the goal weight is achieved, then the diet can resume its normal balance.

Of course, preparing to teach a class of people requires study in nutrition to gain the understanding and knowledge to be a creditable teacher. Otherwise it would be a matter of a thin person telling fat people how to live.

 

[GaveMeJoy]

Ezekiel 16:49-50 New International Version (NIV)
49 “‘Now this was the sin of your sister She and her daughters were arrogant, overfedand unconcerned;they did not help the poor and needy.50 and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.



So, is that mistaken, implying it was homosexuality and just making it say what you want it to say and disrespecting Scripture, or misrepresenting it, or just plain lying?

Is unrepentant lying a sin?

Owned

 

[GaveMeJoy]

It is a fact, proved by research, that the problem with weight gain is basically biological. There is an interesting article written about why many who lost weight on Jenny Craig, put it back on after a short time. The conclusion was that the body is programmed to want to gain weight rather than lose it. This is why person who has lost weight through a programme like Jenny Craig needs to be extra vigilant and disciplined in his or her diet. The moment the person relaxes, the body starts gaining weight.

Most overweight people increase in weight gradually over time. It is because many do not live active lives, and so their food intake is more than what they can burn off in energy. Also, many do not have sufficient knowledge in nutrition to be able to know that consuming sugary and high carbohydrate food gives excess energy which the body stores as fat. All that diets like Jenny Craig do is to give a diet with the appropriate balance between carbohydrates, protein and fat. We need all three to function in a healthy way, but they must be in the correct proportions in order to maintain a healthy body weight.

So, to say that an overweight person is "clearly in sin" is incorrect, and is definitely not helpful to someone who is struggling with weight gain and is working hard to keep his or her weight under control.

The person who says that "over-weight people are clearly in sin" is committing a worse sin - lack of love toward his neighbor. If there are those who are concerned with the welfare of overweight people, then they should put their money where their mouths are, and start up a class to educate these ones in proper nutrition and how to have a balanced, healthy diet. In some ways, there needs to be an unbalanced diet in order to lose the excess weight, and once the goal weight is achieved, then the diet can resume its normal balance.

Of course, preparing to teach a class of people requires study in nutrition to gain the understanding and knowledge to be a creditable teacher. Otherwise it would be a matter of a thin person telling fat people how to live.

There is a big fat difference between being overweight and being morbidly obese. Any person who is morbidly obese is a glutton by definition. It’s physically impossible to be morbidly obese without vast amounts of calories per day, massive amounts of eating That actually takes significant amount of work to eat all the food

 

[GaveMeJoy]

So in summation, it appears it's ok to be a fat pastor becasue:
-some people have medical conditions that make them fat
-god doesn't hate fat people as much as gay people
-being gay is a far worse sin than being fat(if being fat is even a sin)
-Christians will defend their own sins and lash out at others sins to make themselves feel better

I think I got it all. Thanks guys!

People are quick to protect their own sin. Obese people are 100% in sin with their overeating and there are no excuses, ever.

 

[GaveMeJoy]

It's caused by demonic spirits that's why it's Involuntary. The feelings are Involuntary but the actions are voluntary.

Check out the story of Saint Justina and Saint Cyprian. It shows us that Involuntary physical feelings and thoughts can be caused from demonic spirits.

Make the sign of the cross, drink Holy Water, pray and fast etc :

Saints Cyprian and Justina and what we can learn from their story as Christians (Repost)


.

Making the sign of the cross and drinking water someone says is holy will do nothing. Pray directly the God

 

[GaveMeJoy]

It is still a twist of Scripture to make it to mean a judgment against overweight people.

“Excess of food” Pretty clear to me

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

There is a big fat difference between being overweight and being morbidly obese. Any person who is morbidly obese is a glutton by definition. It’s physically impossible to be morbidly obese without vast amounts of calories per day, massive amounts of eating That actually takes significant amount of work to eat all the food

So, having said that, how would you assist a morbidly obese person get back to a healthy weight?

Also, like Anger, it is often a secondary condition. A person can be angry because of grief, frustration, disappointment, pain, inconvenience, fear, or any other emotional situation that would cause him or her to lose it.

Similarly, over-eating can also have an underlying cause: loneliness, frustration, boredom, etc., as well as just plain gluttony. I know of a friend who was frightened of being raped, so she made herself unattractive by deliberately gaining a lot of weight. Another person I know went through a clinical depression and she ate "comfort food" and gained weight as a result. Others gain weight when they stop cigarette smoking. Another person practically starved himself, but still gained weight, because what he ate was high carbohydrate. I think there was an account of a guy who decided to eat nothing but MacDonald's food for a period of time, and gained weight, plus developed some serious health issues.

So, although gluttony may be one cause, it is just one of many.

 

[Beanieboy]

This one is just wrong, what theologians are you reading?

Mathew Vines, evangelical, discusses it at length in context, cultural setting, and translation.

Another theologian discussing abomination

Another discussing the 7 clobber passages and how they are misused and misunderstood, including the misuse of the word abomination (unless God also believes pork and shellfish disgusting, hateful things. They are listed in Leviticus, so if one quotes Leviticus, I assume the have read it - but most haven't, and instead, lift it out of context.

1 Corinthians 6:9 ESV
"Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,"

Explains in detail that it doesn't say what you think it says

Examine Romans

Another theologian, a pastor, discussing Romans
Clobber 1: Romans 1:26-27 with Pastor Emmy Kegler

A round table of biblical scholars discussing the "clobber passages"
Clobber Passages roundtable

The Bible condemns homosexuality as a damnable offense in both Testaments and the Old and the New Covenants.

As I stated, theologians are split on the issue. These people study Scripture for a living. One needs to take into account the translation, the cultural context, who was speaking to whom and why. To not read it with that understanding is irresponsible at best, and being deceitful at worst.
To ignore that there are theologians who disagree with your last statement (simoly that there are Christian scholars who disagree, regardless of whether you agree with them) suggests you have never listened to any opposing views to make a better decision, that you know they exist but refuse to listen because you want the bible to say what you want it to say rather than what it says, or you choose to believe a lie that this issue is debated on both sides for "the bible is clear."

Here, the speaker discussed how the word "homosexual" was not in the Bible until 1946. One has to at least wonder, why, in 1946, was that word changed in the translation, see what it previously referred to, and see if it lead to misunderstanding.
YouTube


Are there theologians who believe the bible condemns homosexuality? Yes. It is a truth I can state, rather than believe a lie by denying it. But are there an equal number who oppose it with strong evidence, and intense biblical study? Yes.

There was a time when the Bible was used to support slavery, even from theologians and clergy, the bible used to oppress women and people of color.

But one should at the very least hear each side, and listen to the research done for us, at our fingertips, to understand that both sides, seeking God, have come to different conclusions, and while listening to both, decide if we really want to know what the Bible says about the issue, or prefer to make the bible mean what we want it to, and for what purpose.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

“Excess of food” Pretty clear to me

Not always. A person can eat like a sparrow and still gain weight because it is the wrong type of food; and sugar-based softdrinks and sodas are the worst, because they go straight into the bloodstream and raise blood sugar. These caffeine-based energy drinks are the worst. So I person can eat like a sparrow, and use these energy drinks for energy, and then gain weight.

 

[Curtis.Hilliker]

I’m overweight because of medications, the weight will not go away (even though I drink two of my meals everyday).

 

[Athanasius377]

A couple things I have learned from this thread.
-Fundamentalist is a term that has a historical meaning and usage. In this thread its thrown around like a softer version of fascist. In both cases I doubt that a correct definition could be given of either term.
-It is obvious that some folks do not understand the term "nature" as it relates to natural law.
-The OP does not seem to understand proper use of categories. Gluttony and obesity do not belong in the same category. One is a behavior or action the other is an adjective to describe a state of being. A person can be gluttonous but not obese.
-The charge the church is under the control or at least heavily influenced by the modern Republican party showed up. I would like to see this demonstrated. My guess is the statement sounds really good but has no foundation in reality.
-This last comment is not directed at anyone stuggling with sexual sin and attraction. It seems the whole point of the thread was to rationalize a particular sin by comparing with another sin.

 

[Matty91]

Homosexuality is a special sin because its not natural. It shows a total perversion of one's mind.

How is it a special sin?

Gluttony also refers to wealth, I hope you don't accumulate wealth and give any excesses you don't need to charity.

The hypocrisy among many of you is amazing.

 

[JLHargus]

The bible clearly states that gluttony is a sin and that the body is a temple of the holy spirit and should be honored.

It would seem then that people who are overweight are clearly in sin (barring medical conditions)

So why is it acceptable to be a fat pastor in sin, but not a gay pastor in sin?

I would say most overweight people are not guilty of gluttony. Even a skinny person can be guilty of gluttony.

It is not ok for an active glutton or active gay to be a pastor without repentance.
Both are equally mortal sins.

 

[Curtis.Hilliker]

What worries me I guess is this wave of acceptance that is being pushed for homosexuality. Don’t get me wrong, all sexual sin is bad but there seems to be a real push towards acceptance of homosexuality these days. I’ve struggled with many sexual sins, and the Holy Spirit has changed me!!! It’s just sad to see more and more pushing for acceptance of sin than seeing the Spirit of God changing peoples lives. I wonder, where has the loving conviction of God’s Spirit that produces repentance gone? Or maybe some are just rejecting it? I dunno but I think I’m just rambling now, have a good evening everyone!!!

 

[Matty91]

What worries me I guess is this wave of acceptance that is being pushed for homosexuality. Don’t get me wrong, all sexual sin is bad but there seems to be a real push towards acceptance of homosexuality these days. I’ve struggled with many sexual sins, and the Holy Spirit has changed me!!! It’s just sad to see more and more pushing for acceptance of sin than seeing the Spirit of God changing peoples lives. I wonder, where has the loving conviction of God’s Spirit that produces repentance gone? Or maybe some are just rejecting it? I dunno but I think I’m just rambling now, have a good evening everyone!!!

I'd also like to understand why 1 Timothy 2:12, 1 Peter 3:7, 1 Corinthians 11:9, Ephesians 23-24 and so many more are practically ignored regarding women in the Church and to their husbands?

 

[NBB]

What is next? what is wrong to be a murderer pastor, adulterer, fornicator, etc etc.