Is there a verse that says we can sin all we want to and still be saved?
No, that would be stupid. God isn't trying to encourage anyone to sin. Would any sane parent encourage their own children to wild and dangerously? Of course not.
Why do you keep asking (fantasizing about such a verse) about this?
Why can't you focus on what Jesus said, even though it seems to pain you?
"I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish."
What does that give you so much grief? The result of never perishing is based on being given etenral life. It is that clear.
The problem here is that you believe that fellowship is lost.
Please tell me why that is in error.
This is no big deal and Paul and the other writers would not have written so much about how we should live a holy life. There must surely be a reason for this and it's not because we will be punished HERE,,,it's because we will be punished AFTER.
OK, then you seem to believe that Jesus was mistaken. And what about your "no big deal" comment? Do you really think that God's divine discipline that includes, weakness, sickness and physical death (1 Cor 11:30) is 'no big deal'?? Of course it is.
Heb 12:11 says God's discipline is painful. So, again, 'no big deal'?
Or what Paul said about the incestuous believer in 1 Cor 5:5, that he was being turned over to Satan for the "destruction of the flesh"? Again, 'no big deal'?
Why do Arminians ALWAYS ignore, make fun of, or otherwise reject that God disciplines His children with painful discipline?
You posted John 5:24....just go a few verse down where Jesus states:
John 5:28-29
28“Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
29and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment. ( condemnation).
Do you think these 2 verses negates v.24? Why?
Does condemnation by God sound like loss of fellowship to you?
Yep. Except v.28 and 29 aren't about loss of fellowship of believers. It's about unbelievers going to hell.
Don't be confused about "did the good deeds". That refers to believing the gospel.
If it means anything else, then it is in direct conflict with v.24. Is that your view?
Those that did EVIL DEEDS will be condemned to a resurrection of judgement/condemnation.
This is not speaking to fellowship,,,this is speaking to our very eternal life....eternal life will be lost if we commit evil deeds.
No, it says nothing about eternal life being lost. That's just your imagination talking.
Read and BELIEVE 5:24 again. There CAN'T be loss of eternal life. It's very clear.
Those same deeds that you claim can be committed and we can still be saved.
If you are not referring to believers, then yes. But v.28 and 29 aren't about believers who go to hell.
The N.T., Jesus and all the writers DO NOT agree with you.
No, they don't agree with your Pharisaical religion of works for salvation.
I'd go over each verse you posted,,,but you never reply to mine and this takes a lot of time...so I will not do this unless you do.
Nonsense. Of course I do. That's my style. To explain the verses that Arminians don't understand but quote.
I said:
"So, this proves that salvation cannot be lost for believers."
What does? I can't keep going back to my post to understand you. Please include my answer with your statement...thanks.
john 5:24 and 10:28 proves that salvation cannot be lost. Jesus said so.
But if you scroll down to 1 John 1:5-7 you'll find some conditions in order to stay in fellowship...
1. God is light and in Him there is no darkness.
2. If we say that we walk in fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness..WE LIE AND DO NOT PRACTICE THE TRUTH.
Correct!
In John 8:12 Jesus tells us that HE is the light of the world and he who follows HIM SHALL NOT WALK IN THE DARKNESS, but shall have the light of life.
And He is right.
If we do NOT follow Jesus AND WALK IN THE DARKNESS (practice sin)
we will NOT have the LIGHT OF LIFE.
That is correrct.
3. IF we HAVE FELLOWSHIP WITH THE SON, the blood of Jesus will cleanse us from all sin....1 John 1:7
Yes. And this ties directly to v.9.
IF WE DO NOT HAVE FELLOWSHIP WITH THE SON...we will NOT BE cleansed from all unrighteousness...
Right. It's called being out of fellowship.
As you can see fellowship with God is very important.
No fellowship...
No cleansing of sin...
No salvation.
You were doing so great, up until the last 2 words. That ruined everything.
You keep equating fellowship with relationship. You need more discernment.
This is what I think about marriage and fellowship...
If the offending spouse does this continually ..... at times DIVORCE is sought.
What is God's plan for marriage? It is a PERMANENT relationship. Divorce was granted by Moses because the hearts of the people were hard, according to Jesus.
So, at least you seem to have some understanding between fellowship and relationship. The marriage is the relationship. Fellowship is the status of the relationship.
If there is no fellowship, how is the marriage going? Not well. When believers sin, and do not confess for forgiveness and cleansing, how is their Christian life going? Not well either.
Only when the stupid husband confesses his offense (sin) to his wife, will he be forgiven and "cleansed". And fellowship is restored.
We could also use the example of parent and child, which is also found in Scripture to describe the believer and God relationship.
Can a child UN-do his birth from his parents? No. Neither can a believer undo his new birth. EXACTLY THE SAME THING.
The relationship between parent and child is physical, through DNA. The spiritual DNA is the Holy Spirit living in the new creation (2 Col 5:17).
However, even though the relationship is PERMANENT, the issue between parent and child is one of FELLOWSHIP. That's what can change.