How many times can one be regenerated?

How many times can one be regenerated?

  • As many of times until I feel His presence everyday

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  • I don't know, I dont understand what born again really is

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    15
  • Poll closed .

GodsGrace101

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FreeGrace2 said:
You don't know??? The answer should be obvious.

2 Thess 3:14 - Take special note of anyone who does not obey our instruction in this letter. Do not associate with them, in order that they may feel ashamed.

You had asked the reason for shunning an immoral believer. The red words give the reason.

I did address 1 For 5:10-11, but I'll repeat myself for your benefit.

10 not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world.
11 But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.

In v.10, "the people of this world" refers to unbelievers. And Paul gives the reason he doesn't mean them; if he did, he would be telling believers to leave this world.

In v.11 he is telling believers to shun immoral believers.

The reason I know Paul was distinguishing between unbelievers and believers as to who to shun is found in the next 2 verses:

12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?
13 God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.”

Back in Paul's day, unbelievers didn't attend churches, like they do today.
I really dislike using commentaries...
but this would require too much time,,,so here's one:

Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers
(10) Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world.—This is a limitation and explanation of the command given not to associate with fornicators. It would have been almost impossible for the command to be literally obeyed without the Christian withdrawing altogether from the business of life, so the Apostle explains that it is the fair fame and purity of the Church which he is anxious to preserve. There are so many fornicators, and covetous, and idolaters in this world (i.e., the heathen world) that men must meet with them. But the Christian must tolerate no such sins among themselves; they must exclude from the social circle any brother who, bearing the name of Christ, indulges in the vices of the heathen world. The Church is to be the light of the world, and not the recipient of the world’s darkness.

Perhaps you could explain again what you think Paul is saying in 1 corinthians 5:10-11 since your reasoning is very questionable.
 
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GodsGrace101

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The OBVIOUS danger is being in conflict with the words of the Lord Jesus, which seems to not bother Arminians at all.

Jesus said those He gives eternal life shall never perish. Arminians claim that recipients of etenral life CAN perish.

If you don't see a huge conflict here, you have zero discernment.
We'll see who had discernment at the end of our life.
However, you keep bringing up Arminianism....
Could I ask: Are you reformed? A calvinist?
 
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GodsGrace101

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Well, that's just your own opinion about the parenthesis. In fact, the parenthesis is IRRELEVANT, since there are NO verses that include "contrition" in the requirement for receiving eternal life. If you think there is, please share.


I don't see ANY relevance between your parenthesis and Christ's death for sins.

It is because of your claim that "sinners won't enter heaven" that I said what I said.

If Christ died for ALL sins, which He did, then sin CANNOT be an issue in getting saved.

Because Christ removed the sin barrier between God and man. That's why Paul wrote 2 Cor 5:19 - that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.


I'll post what I think is relevant.


Again, please provide any verse that links being "contrite" to salvation.


Why would anyone think this is about salvation. Didn't you read the previous 8 verses? And to whom was John writing his epistle to? According to biblical scholars, it was "to all Christians".


Of course He doesn't accept sin. That would be really bizarre. But the issue in ch 1 is fellowship with God; not establishing a relationship with him.

But, unfortunately, Arminians do not understand (discern) the difference between relationship and fellowship. Until one gains discernment, they cannot understand much of Scripture.


He always does. And He does more than forgive. He cleanses His children (saved people) which restores fellowship.


Do you understand any of this? All believers have the Holy Spirit (God Himself) in them. So, because God cannot deny Himself, just the same He cannot deny His children, who have the Spirit in them. Just another verse on eternal security.


His word. All that He says, and promises.


Sure. And justice. btw, I never said nor suggested nor believe that God treats His children as though they were faithful if they weren't. He disciplines them, which is painful, including physical death. We've been over this many times.


Yes. Accepted back in fellowship. But you seem to think this is about getting saved, or getting saved all over again.

You couldn't be more wrong.


Absolutely!! That's been my point about disobedient believers. They will be punished, including loss of eternal reward.

btw, the underlined words indicate loss of reward. There are 2 other parallel passages on this subject.

In 1 Cor 6 we find the same phrase "not inherit the kingdom", but in Eph 5:5 we find "have no inheritance IN the kingdom".

To 'have no inheritance IN the kingdom' doesn't say or mean "won't ENTER the kingdom" but "won't have an inheritance IN the kingdom".

I highlight the word "IN" because it's important. It clearly doesn't say anything about not getting into the kingdom.

And since Eph 5:5 is parallel to Gal 5 and 1 Cor 6, other than the wording about the kingdom, they all mean the same thing.

To "inherit the kingdom" is parallel to 2 Tim 2:12 - if we endure, we will also reign with him. If we deny him, he will also deny us;

So, to "reign with Him" means to inherit the kingdom. But being denied the privilege of reigning with Him is the same as "having NO inheritance IN the kingdom, or "not inheriting the kingdom".

The same principle is found in Rom 8:17b - co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.

I hope you can see that "sharing in His glory" is the same as "reigning with Him" or "inheriting the kingdom".
You'll post what YOU think is relevant and will not accept my request to post my ENTIRE statement?

It's up to YOU to decide what is relevant and what isn't?

I'm sure the rest of what you wrote is also pretty irrelevant since you do not seem to understand God or Jesus or the N.T. or the Holy Spirit or any of the writers.
 
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FreeGrace2

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Is there a verse that says we can sin all we want to and still be saved?
No, that would be stupid. God isn't trying to encourage anyone to sin. Would any sane parent encourage their own children to wild and dangerously? Of course not.

Why do you keep asking (fantasizing about such a verse) about this?

Why can't you focus on what Jesus said, even though it seems to pain you?

"I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish."

What does that give you so much grief? The result of never perishing is based on being given etenral life. It is that clear.

The problem here is that you believe that fellowship is lost.
Please tell me why that is in error.

This is no big deal and Paul and the other writers would not have written so much about how we should live a holy life. There must surely be a reason for this and it's not because we will be punished HERE,,,it's because we will be punished AFTER.
OK, then you seem to believe that Jesus was mistaken. And what about your "no big deal" comment? Do you really think that God's divine discipline that includes, weakness, sickness and physical death (1 Cor 11:30) is 'no big deal'?? Of course it is.

Heb 12:11 says God's discipline is painful. So, again, 'no big deal'?

Or what Paul said about the incestuous believer in 1 Cor 5:5, that he was being turned over to Satan for the "destruction of the flesh"? Again, 'no big deal'?

Why do Arminians ALWAYS ignore, make fun of, or otherwise reject that God disciplines His children with painful discipline?

You posted John 5:24....just go a few verse down where Jesus states:

John 5:28-29
28“Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
29and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment. ( condemnation).
Do you think these 2 verses negates v.24? Why?

Does condemnation by God sound like loss of fellowship to you?
Yep. Except v.28 and 29 aren't about loss of fellowship of believers. It's about unbelievers going to hell.

Don't be confused about "did the good deeds". That refers to believing the gospel.

If it means anything else, then it is in direct conflict with v.24. Is that your view?

Those that did EVIL DEEDS will be condemned to a resurrection of judgement/condemnation.

This is not speaking to fellowship,,,this is speaking to our very eternal life....eternal life will be lost if we commit evil deeds.
No, it says nothing about eternal life being lost. That's just your imagination talking.

Read and BELIEVE 5:24 again. There CAN'T be loss of eternal life. It's very clear.

Those same deeds that you claim can be committed and we can still be saved.
If you are not referring to believers, then yes. But v.28 and 29 aren't about believers who go to hell.

The N.T., Jesus and all the writers DO NOT agree with you.
No, they don't agree with your Pharisaical religion of works for salvation.

I'd go over each verse you posted,,,but you never reply to mine and this takes a lot of time...so I will not do this unless you do.
Nonsense. Of course I do. That's my style. To explain the verses that Arminians don't understand but quote.

I said:
"So, this proves that salvation cannot be lost for believers."
What does? I can't keep going back to my post to understand you. Please include my answer with your statement...thanks.
john 5:24 and 10:28 proves that salvation cannot be lost. Jesus said so.

But if you scroll down to 1 John 1:5-7 you'll find some conditions in order to stay in fellowship...

1. God is light and in Him there is no darkness.
2. If we say that we walk in fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness..WE LIE AND DO NOT PRACTICE THE TRUTH.
Correct!

In John 8:12 Jesus tells us that HE is the light of the world and he who follows HIM SHALL NOT WALK IN THE DARKNESS, but shall have the light of life.
And He is right.

If we do NOT follow Jesus AND WALK IN THE DARKNESS (practice sin)
we will NOT have the LIGHT OF LIFE.
That is correrct.

3. IF we HAVE FELLOWSHIP WITH THE SON, the blood of Jesus will cleanse us from all sin....1 John 1:7
Yes. And this ties directly to v.9.

IF WE DO NOT HAVE FELLOWSHIP WITH THE SON...we will NOT BE cleansed from all unrighteousness...
Right. It's called being out of fellowship.

As you can see fellowship with God is very important.

No fellowship...
No cleansing of sin...
No salvation.
You were doing so great, up until the last 2 words. That ruined everything.

You keep equating fellowship with relationship. You need more discernment.

This is what I think about marriage and fellowship...
If the offending spouse does this continually ..... at times DIVORCE is sought.
What is God's plan for marriage? It is a PERMANENT relationship. Divorce was granted by Moses because the hearts of the people were hard, according to Jesus.

So, at least you seem to have some understanding between fellowship and relationship. The marriage is the relationship. Fellowship is the status of the relationship.

If there is no fellowship, how is the marriage going? Not well. When believers sin, and do not confess for forgiveness and cleansing, how is their Christian life going? Not well either.

Only when the stupid husband confesses his offense (sin) to his wife, will he be forgiven and "cleansed". And fellowship is restored.

We could also use the example of parent and child, which is also found in Scripture to describe the believer and God relationship.

Can a child UN-do his birth from his parents? No. Neither can a believer undo his new birth. EXACTLY THE SAME THING.

The relationship between parent and child is physical, through DNA. The spiritual DNA is the Holy Spirit living in the new creation (2 Col 5:17).

However, even though the relationship is PERMANENT, the issue between parent and child is one of FELLOWSHIP. That's what can change.
 
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FreeGrace2

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We'll see who had discernment at the end of our life.
However, you keep bringing up Arminianism....
Could I ask: Are you reformed? A calvinist?
Absolutely not. They have their own problems. Their "TULIP" is unbiblical.
 
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FreeGrace2

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You'll post what YOU think is relevant and will not accept my request to post my ENTIRE statement?
Here's the deal. Some posts are VERY long. If I include every comment, I can't post, and then have to chop up the response.

It's up to YOU to decide what is relevant and what isn't?
Of course. Don't you do the same thing? Don't you decide what is true or not? Relevant or not?

I'm sure the rest of what you wrote is also pretty irrelevant since you do not seem to understand God or Jesus or the N.T. or the Holy Spirit or any of the writers.
yeah, yeah, yeah.

Talk about not understanding! Arminians (OSNAS types) either don't believe, don't understand, or refuse to believe John 5:24 and 10:28. These 2 verses are the clearest among the many verses that teach eternal security.

But Arminians are too hung up on "getting away with" sin to care that their view isn't even biblical.
 
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corinth77777

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The whole issue of justification in James 2 is regarding the perspective of PEOPLE, not God. If it were about God's perspective, then James and Paul WOULD HAVE been in conflict.

Human and Divine perspective

Romans 12:17 - Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everyone.

This is about the perspective of everyone.

Rom 14:18 - because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and receives human approval.

This is about the perspective of both God and humans.

2 Cor 5:12 - We are not trying to commend ourselves to you again, but are giving you an opportunity to take pride in us, so that you can answer those who take pride in what is seen rather than in what is in the heart.

This is about the perspective of others.

2 Cor 8:21 - For we are taking pains to do what is right, not only in the eyes of the Lord but also in the eyes of man.

This is about perspective of the Lord and of man.

1 Tim 3:7 - He must also have a good reputation with outsiders, so that he will not fall into disgrace and into the devil’s trap.

This is about perspective of outsiders.

1 John 3:18 - Dear children, let us not love with words or speech but with actions and in truth.

This is directly related to James 2:15-18.

1 Thess 4:12 - so that your daily life may win the respect of outsiders and so that you will not be dependent on anybody.

This is about perspective of outsiders. To “win the respect of outsiders” is to be justified in the eyes of outsiders.

And...2:15,16 PROVES this. From the perspective of the cold and hungry brothers/sisters who were given only lip service by another believer, the faith of that believer would seem dead to them.

It really doesn't require a whole lot of discernment to understand this.

God is omniscient, if you didn't know that. So He doesn't need to see or observe anyone's faith by deeds in order to KNOW they have faith.

However, human beings DO need to see or observe deeds in order to see their faith.

That's exactly what 2:18 is teaching.


Yes. Like a branch that isn't producing fruit. John 15


No, it's not. Not even close. There is no such thing as "demonic believing".


I keep asking but you keep ignoring; what is it that the "demons believe" in 2:19?
I have a question...
But first let me state, I am a learner..and I come on to have discussions so to fill in some blanks..hoping to find those who live the truth.

I confess I have been on the other side of the fence.
Now since the arguments seems to be surrounded around salvation. Can you offer a direct scripture that states God saves us so we can have heaven when we die.

My understanding when I learned the Gospel is Jesus Christ.

And there is no other foundation that can be layed.

Another words....understanding comes from this basic knowledge of who He is.

Brb
 
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FreeGrace2

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I have a question...
But first let me state, I am a learner..and I come on to have discussions so to fill in some blanks..hoping to find those who live the truth.
That's a very good reason to be here. Unfortunately, many come here to argue and do so with very closed minds. When truth is presented clearly from verses, they just won't budge from their refuted positions.

I confess I have been on the other side of the fence.
? What do you mean by "the other side of the fence", and please describe the side you are now on. Thanks.

Now since the arguments seems to be surrounded around salvation. Can you offer a direct scripture that states God saves us so we can have heaven when we die.
Not in those specific words. But the meaning is clear in many verses. First, we have to understand what God is saving us from. That would be the "second death" or the lake of fire.

John 3:18 - Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

Condemnation here refers to being sent to hell, the lake of fire.

My understanding when I learned the Gospel is Jesus Christ.
I'm not sure of this sentence. Of course the Gospel is Jesus Christ. But what is your understanding?

And there is no other foundation that can be layed.
Right. Paul said so in 1 Cor 3.

Another words....understanding comes from this basic knowledge of who He is.

Brb
Yes, that's the start.

Now, I look forward to your question. :)
 
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corinth77777

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That's a very good reason to be here. Unfortunately, many come here to argue and do so with very closed minds. When truth is presented clearly from verses, they just won't budge from their refuted positions.


? What do you mean by "the other side of the fence", and please describe the side you are now on. Thanks.


Not in those specific words. But the meaning is clear in many verses. First, we have to understand what God is saving us from. That would be the "second death" or the lake of fire.

John 3:18 - Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

Condemnation here refers to being sent to hell, the lake of fire.


I'm not sure of this sentence. Of course the Gospel is Jesus Christ. But what is your understanding?


Right. Paul said so in 1 Cor 3.


Yes, that's the start.

Now, I look forward to your question. :)
I use to think some people were closed minded, then I found out it was me :)

So why does God then, save us from this lake?
 
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JLB777

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FreeGrace2 said:
You need to stop lying. I was very clear. There won't be ANY disobedient believers around by the time the mark of the beast occurs.

But it seems you were too distracted by your own false doctrine to notice.

I am WELL aware of the fact that those who take the mark will end up in hell. So your charge is as false as can be.

Of course it was you. Why would you think otherwise?


I haven't lied. That act belongs to you. But since you claim that I said something, please proceed and prove it by citing the post #.


Wow. You really have a handle on totally MISUNDERSTANDING the English language.

I never said that. This is what I DID say. By the time the mark of the beast will be introduced, there WON'T be any rebellious or disobedient Christians around.

Why not? Because the wrath of God will have eliminated (through physical death) them along with all the unbelievers that will die during the various judgments.


From you.


The resurrection and rapture occur at His coming, not before.


Only those who endure to the end will be saved.


But he who endures to the end shall be saved. Matthew 24:13



JLB
 
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JLB777

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The whole issue of justification in James 2 is regarding the perspective of PEOPLE, not God. If it were about God's perspective, then James and Paul WOULD HAVE been in conflict.

Human and Divine perspective

Romans 12:17 - Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everyone.

This is about the perspective of everyone.

Rom 14:18 - because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and receives human approval.

This is about the perspective of both God and humans.

2 Cor 5:12 - We are not trying to commend ourselves to you again, but are giving you an opportunity to take pride in us, so that you can answer those who take pride in what is seen rather than in what is in the heart.

This is about the perspective of others.

2 Cor 8:21 - For we are taking pains to do what is right, not only in the eyes of the Lord but also in the eyes of man.

This is about perspective of the Lord and of man.

1 Tim 3:7 - He must also have a good reputation with outsiders, so that he will not fall into disgrace and into the devil’s trap.

This is about perspective of outsiders.

1 John 3:18 - Dear children, let us not love with words or speech but with actions and in truth.

This is directly related to James 2:15-18.

1 Thess 4:12 - so that your daily life may win the respect of outsiders and so that you will not be dependent on anybody.

This is about perspective of outsiders. To “win the respect of outsiders” is to be justified in the eyes of outsiders.

And...2:15,16 PROVES this. From the perspective of the cold and hungry brothers/sisters who were given only lip service by another believer, the faith of that believer would seem dead to them.

It really doesn't require a whole lot of discernment to understand this.

God is omniscient, if you didn't know that. So He doesn't need to see or observe anyone's faith by deeds in order to KNOW they have faith.

However, human beings DO need to see or observe deeds in order to see their faith.

That's exactly what 2:18 is teaching.


Yes. Like a branch that isn't producing fruit. John 15


No, it's not. Not even close. There is no such thing as "demonic believing".


I keep asking but you keep ignoring; what is it that the "demons believe" in 2:19?


Faith works by obedience.

The obedience of faith.

Only those who obey the Gospel will be saved.


For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God? 1 Peter 4:17


JLB
 
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FreeGrace2

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I use to think some people were closed minded, then I found out it was me :)

So why does God then, save us from this lake?
Why indeed. You will have to ask Him.

All I know is from the Bible. And the Bible says that He saves us from hell.

Maybe this is for another thread, but 1 Pet 1:12 teaches that even angels long to look into (inquire of) our salvation. That can only mean that angels learn about God's atrributes and character through humanity.
 
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FreeGrace2

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The resurrection and rapture occur at His coming, not before.
Agreed!

Only those who endure to the end will be saved.
Stop. If "saved" here means saved from the lake of fire, then all the verses that say that salvation is by faith cannot be true.

So then, what does "saved" mean in that particular verse? Read the context. It is about the 7 year period called the Tribulation. And the context speaks of physical death. So those who endure to the end (of the Trip) will be delivered from physical death.

But he who endures to the end shall be saved. Matthew 24:13
1 Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings.
2 “Do you see all these things?” he asked. “Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.”
3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”
9 “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me.
10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other,
11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people.
12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold,
13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.

Just 4 verses before v.13 we have physical death. So the blue words refer to the red words. Those who endure will be delivered from physical death.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Are you admitting that salvation is by works and deeds?
Since Yahweh in His Word says that anyone who says they are HIS, but do not do what HE SAYS,
therefore it is clear
that those who have no light are lost. (yet we all were once without light) .....
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Not to interrupt the thread, but for clarity, which is it? (according to you in your posts)

There won't be any disobedient Christians around,
or
there won't be any disobedient believers around.
All the quotes below are from the same post.
Note that "even the demons believe, (thus are technically "believers" but never Christian)
and shudder because they know their judgment is soon" ....

By the time the mark of the beast will be introduced, there WON'T be any rebellious or disobedient Christians around.

Why not? Because the wrath of God will have eliminated (through physical death) them along with all the unbelievers that will die during the various judgments.

I was very clear. There won't be ANY disobedient believers around by the time the mark of the beast occurs.

Further, when true Ekklesia (martyrs) are told to get the mark, and refuse to take it, they are executed.
Others, whether they were once Christians, or once believers , or not, will take the mark to spare their life, thus losing their own souls forever.

Wouldn't they count as "disobedient" ?
 
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FreeGrace2

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Since Yahweh in His Word says that anyone who says they are HIS, but do not do what HE SAYS,
therefore it is clear
that those who have no light are lost. (yet we all were once without light) .....
Let's not be vague. Those who have been given the gift of etenral life (John 10:28) and the Holy Spirit (Acts 1:5) are saved.

By "light" I assume you must mean have believed in the Lord Jesus Christ. So yes, those who have no light do not have the Lord. And are lost. Unsaved.
 
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