True saving faith is proven by your repentance

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
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Jesus also said to love our enemies. Is He only referring to those enemies in the Church?

Yes, I already mentioned this point to you before, as well. I said to you before that Jesus said that He wants us to love our enemies. Even in my recent post you are quoting I have stated that Jesus does not want us to hate anyone. But He does use the word "hate" in the sense of loving others less in regards to loving Him.

The point I wanted to make that you are not getting is that you quoted the words "thou shall not hate" as being words actually spoken by Jesus. Please show me the Scripture verse or passage where Jesus specifically states these EXACT words. You will not find them. It is dangerous to say that Jesus said something He never actually said. Sure, we may both agree that Jesus does not want us to hate anyone in the sense that we understand the word "hate," but Jesus did not specifically say the words "thou shall not hate."
 
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Good. Then you don't teach that our past, present, and future sins are forgiven like some Protestants teach?

Free Will Baptists believe in the same way our friend ("rennicks") does here. Free Will Baptists are Protestants. Even Charismatics are Protestants. The word "Protestant" is a loose term to suggest that one is merely protesting against the Catholic church.

Pentecostalism - Wikipedia
Charismatic movement - Wikipedia

Jacob Arminius who was a Protestant and agreed with the five Solas did not hold to the same view of sin and salvation as Martin Luther did. Martin Luther (the father of Protestantism) essentially said a believer could sin a thousand times a day and still be saved. Jacob Arminius did not believe that because he held to the view that a person can fall away from the faith via by sin.

I think there are varying different degrees of Protestantism that have changed from what Martin Luther taught (including his original articles of protest against the Catholic church). In one sense, I think Protestants all generally agree in Protesting against the Catholic church, but they do not all agree with what Martin Luther taught in regards to his original view of Protestantism. I prefer to be called Non-Denominational, but there are certain views I do hold to that include certain names. I lean more towards Arminianism, but I would not call myself a strict Arminianist (Note: I am strongly against all 5 points of Calvinism). So please rest assured I am not a Calvinist. Anyways, Arminianism is under the loose umbrella of Protestantism. So it is hard for me to escape being under the Protestant label even if I may claim to not wanting to be under it by claiming "Non-denominational." However, I can take comfort in seeking to hold to the Bible alone and not in what men teach.

Anyways, I hope that what I said here helps;
And may God bless you today.
 
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Al Touthentop

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I stated what I meant. I should know. You telling me what I meant is a baseless accusation.

You did notice that there was a question mark there. Your statement or frustration had nothing to do with me. I am not attempting to justify sin in my life or anyone else's. So your implication that I might be doing that is baseless.

When we're saved from our past sins, we are not given special power to keep from any kind of sin, be it intentional or unintentional. What we're given is mercy and it is up to us to repent from sin and stop doing it. The Holy Spirit doesn't prevent us from sinning outside our own will, it provides the words and the instruction on how we can control our own actions. If the Holy Spirit gave us through supernatural means the special power not to intentionally sin, there is no reason that the apostles would have kept teaching that we must cease from sin. It would be an automatic thing barred through the gift of the Spirit. But we don't read about anything like this in the New Testament. We're called to obedience. We still have free will.

Saying this does not excuse anything nor is it a means by which I could justify my own sin. Stop accusing me of that and we won't have any problem.
 
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Al Touthentop

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If the only thing that is keeping one in Christ is the fear of punishment, I would doubt that they were in him to begin with.

There is nothing wrong with this. Some people are motivated by fear and Paul says that this is fine in more than one place. He didn't always preach to that but he sometimes did. Being fearful and respectful of God's determination to punish sinners is not evidence that we're not in Christ.
Perfect love drives out fear... Who would want to live with someone but they were deathly afraid of?

Do you want to be in the same house with someone that might kill you just because you said the wrong word?
That speaks to immediate punishment in the fleshly sense. But if fear were to cause a person to be repentant, I don't see why it isn't a good result, especially if the end is that the person is saved.

Psalms 111:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom; all those who practice it have a good understanding. His praise endures forever!

Acts 10:1-2 At Caesarea there was a man named Cornelius, a centurion of what was known as the Italian Cohort, a devout man who feared God with all his household, gave alms generously to the people, and prayed continually to God.

Romans 8:15 For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!”


There is a beneficial fear and a destructive fear. The Bible isn't contradicting itself when it teaches that fear is both bad and good, it is teaching that there are distinct kinds of fear. Fear of God is good.

We shun sin out of love for God. If it's only out of fear, it's done for the wrong reason. And what is not done from faith is sin.

One can believe that his sin will bring punishment. That is faith too because it's true. Thus it cannot be a "wrong reason." The truth can never be a wrong reason to repent and ask for forgiveness of sin. It shouldn't be the only reason, but it is a fine reason as the rest of the bible teaches us. A fear that prevents you from asking for forgiveness would be terrible.

Faith involves unfailing trust that Christ is enough. Not that I am perfect, that is arrogance.

Faith also involves the belief that unrepentant sinners are condemned. If one doesn't believe that, then he has license to sin, something Paul taught that we do not have.
 
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Al Touthentop

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yes, and no. Which "created"?

Born of the womb. Yes. If we weren't created with the ability to obey God, then there can be no condemnation when we don't. You can't charge a person for a crime he is forced to commit. That would be unjust.
 
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renniks

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other words, you are not looking at the whole counsel of God's Word, and you are simply seeking a more comforting message that does not exist.
Christ's love is a comforting message. If it isn't, you don't understand his love and grace. Fear will get you to confess initially, only love will keep you in him.

" there is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love."

Our " fear" as children of God is awe at God's Holiness and majesty.
 
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Al Touthentop

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Christ's love is a comforting message. If it isn't, you don't understand his love and grace. Fear will get you to confess initially, only love will keep you in him.

" there is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love."

Our " fear" as children of God is awe at God's Holiness and majesty.

And our belief that he will do exactly what he said, among other things, punish unrepentant sinners.
 
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renniks

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Again, the problem with your belief is that it does turn God's grace into a license for immorality on some small level. You don't believe you have to keep God's laws perfectly
No one ever has. Unless you are the first, you are just talking nonsense.
 
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Al Touthentop

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No one ever has. Unless you are the first, you are just talking nonsense.

"Be perfect, for your father in heaven is perfect." Jesus, the first man to perfectly keep God's law told us we should strive for perfection. He came down here to show us that it was possible. Nobody has said that you can't repent and be cleansed of your sin. But we are told perfection is what we must strive for. If that isn't what you're striving for, then I don't think you fully believe God.
 
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Christ's love is a comforting message. If it isn't, you don't understand his love and grace. Fear will get you to confess initially, only love will keep you in him.

" there is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love."

Our " fear" as children of God is awe at God's Holiness and majesty.

Again, you have to ignore verses like 1 John 2:5, Philippians 2:12, Acts of the Apostles 5:11, and Matthew 10:28 in order to make your belief work here.
 
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No one ever has. Unless you are the first, you are just talking nonsense.

But you are not taking under consideration these verses in light of your belief:

Galatians 5:24, 1 Peter 4:1-2, 2 Corinthians 7:1, 1 Peter 1:16, John 5:14, John 8:11, 1 Corinthians 10:13, Psalms 119:11, etc.

These verses have to be distorted, ignored, or changed in some way in order to make your belief work.
 
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CharismaticLady

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Born of the womb. Yes. If we weren't created with the ability to obey God, then there can be no condemnation when we don't. You can't charge a person for a crime he is forced to commit. That would be unjust.

I agree we were created with free will to choose. But I also know the importance of being born again - a new creation.
 
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renniks

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don't think this view is that constructive. Becoming a disciple of Christ heals you. Why continue to feel broken?
Because we all are. Our healing will not be completed until we are in heaven.
"For You do not delight in sacrifice, otherwise I would give it; You are not pleased with burnt offering. The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit; A broken and a contrite heart, O God, You will not despise."
 
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Al Touthentop

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I agree we were created with free will to choose. But I also know the importance of being born again - a new creation.

OK. Awesome. To be born again is to be born as a child, with no sin. To go back to the state we were in when first born. And it is our job as Christians to stay that way and if we fall short, Jesus has provided the sacrifice that makes it possible for those sins to be forgiven if they occcur. The Holy Spirit doesn't cause us, against our will, to obey God. We take his instruction and put it to life in our actions. And Christians are capable of sinning after they've been saved from their past sins. They can deliberately sin, as Ananias and Saphira, the man at the church at Corinth, Peter, and Simon the Sorcerer all are examples.

Nowhere does it say that a person who becomes a disciple is prevented from deliberate sin by the Holy Spirit. We shouldn't. And doing so would be wrong. And I'm not advocating that anyone do this. The opposite is the case.
 
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renniks

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Good. Then you don't teach that our past, present, and future sins are forgiven like some Protestants teach?
I believe ALL my sins are forgiven, yes. That alone, should make one humble. It's not about what I have done. It's about what God does for me. Does this mean I don't need to confess when he prompts me? Of course not ! If I want to remain close to his side, I need to have honest communication with him daily, about my needs and my sins.
 
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renniks

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There is nothing wrong with this. Some people are motivated by fear and Paul says that this is fine in more than one place. He didn't always preach to that but he sometimes did. Being fearful and respectful of God's determination to punish sinners is not evidence that we're not in Christ.
If someone who is a mature Christian is still serving God out of fear, he's missing out on so much.
Isaiah 43:1 "Don't fear, for I have redeemed you; I have called you by name; you are Mine."

Psalm 18 : I love you, O LORD, my strength. The LORD is my rock, my fortress and my deliverer; my God is my rock, in whom I take refuge. He is my shield and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold.

This is one of my favorite verses.
 
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renniks

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Faith also involves the belief that unrepentant sinners are condemned. If one doesn't believe that, then he has license to sin, something Paul taught that we do not have.
Unrepentant sinners, by definition, are not his children... We are and have nothing to fear.

I don't know how fear would keep one from sinning, anyway. I've seen the results of that kind of fire and brimstone preaching. Initial repentance, ( whether true repentance or not, I don't know) and then going right back to where they were once the fear wears off.
The way to remain in Christ is to fall in love with him.
 
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Al Touthentop

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Unrepentant sinners, by definition, are not his children... We are and have nothing to fear.

If we continue in sin we have a lot to fear. It is not evidence that we were never saved.

I don't know how fear would keep one from sinning, anyway. I've seen the results of that kind of fire and brimstone preaching. Initial repentance, ( whether true repentance or not, I don't know) and then going right back to where they were once the fear wears off.
The way to remain in Christ is to fall in love with him.

Well the bible teaches that we are to fear God and that love is demonstrated by keeping his commandments.
 
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Al Touthentop

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If someone who is a mature Christian is still serving God out of fear, he's missing out on so much.
Isaiah 43:1 "Don't fear, for I have redeemed you; I have called you by name; you are Mine."

Psalm 18 : I love you, O LORD, my strength. The LORD is my rock, my fortress and my deliverer; my God is my rock, in whom I take refuge. He is my shield and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold.

This is one of my favorite verses.

Do you think that the verses on fear are to be ignored?
 
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