Opinion: On Impeachment

HannahT

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I hope that there is video footage as between 50 and 53 Republican Senators commit perjury as they take the oath to be impartial. Let's go after them next.

Attention must be paid when the main defense I have heard coming out of the House and the Senate is that he is "above the law." Since when does the defendant in a trial have veto power over who can provide testimony to his (alleged for now) crimes? It is a very sad moment to see our representative democracy dominated (in the Senate) by those who would support dictatorship and oligarchy over the government our Constitution mandates.

This is a political game, and the Democrats also need to be impartial. Since they have been asking for this even before the man took office? Their impartiality will be hard to prove too. Impartiality on any front is very hard to see from this vantage point. Although, I realize depending on what side you are on - you will claim it is only one side. It's naive but I guess works for some.

I really wasn't impressed with the House side of things. It left more questions than answers, and quite a bit of cutting people off to not go there. This whole thing has been a joke. It's very disappointing. We also had to endure all these lists of crimes committed for a couple of years that were alleged, and then to see the two charges they came up with? Wow. Then it was a rush to get this done, and then it wasn't. I think Pelosi got railroaded into this, because she isn't stupid...but you have to wonder about vulnerable at this point.

If it were a dictatorship or oligarchy? Things wouldn't have gone this far. Heck, if there was any hint of it there it wouldn't have gone this far. Do people know the definition of those words? I have to wonder. I'll fall on the side of using them for melodramatic purposes instead. Otherwise, it wouldn't make any sense to use them. I don't remember any GOP claiming he was above the law, but everyone has heard the DEM's parrot it for weeks now.

This whole thing is just sad. It won't go anywhere, and will stir up the hate to a new level. They are all guilty of that.
 
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The Barbarian

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This is a political game, and the Democrats also need to be impartial. Since they have been asking for this even before the man took office?

Which democrats in the House did that? Checkable sources?

Impartiality on any front is very hard to see from this vantage point.

The non-partisan GAO concluded that Trump broke the law by holding up aid to Ukraine, pending them giving him dirt on Hunter Biden. So there is that, although, I realize depending on what side you are on - you will claim it is only one side. It's naive but I guess works for some.
 
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HannahT

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Which democrats in the House did that? Checkable sources?

It's not that hard to figure out. If you want to pretend they didn't? That's up to you.

The non-partisan GAO concluded that Trump broke the law by holding up aid to Ukraine, pending them giving him dirt on Hunter Biden. So there is that, although, I realize depending on what side you are on - you will claim it is only one side. It's naive but I guess works for some.

What has this got to do with the quote you copied? I stated I don't see any impartiality of either the DEMs or GOP point of view. How does the above change that reality?
 
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Fantine

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You act as if Democrats "hated" Trump from the get go for no reason.

Instead they were astute enough to analyze the facts and see that he was incapable to lead our country.

But they aren't magicians. Trump's accomplices, some appointed and some elected, have successfully obstructed justice, suppressed evidence, and hidden the truth.

You should give Democrats credit for being able to uncover what they did. Imagine what they would have come up.with had the DOJ not been led by an obstructor general.

The fissures are beginning to widen. May the truth set us free.
 
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The Barbarian

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This is a political game, and the Democrats also need to be impartial. Since they have been asking for this even before the man took office?

Barbarian suggests:
Which democrats in the House did that? Checkable sources?

It's not that hard to figure out. If you want to pretend they didn't? That's up to you.

Just pointing out that no one can show that they did. Seems to be completely faked. Unless you can find some evidence. What have you got?

What has this got to do with the quote you copied?

In my case, I have evidence for my assertion. What do you have?
 
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The Barbarian

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The fissures are beginning to widen. May the truth set us free.

Yes, there's been a flood of new revelations. Part of it is caused by Trump's notorious willingness to betray any of his associates to save himself. They often respond to his lack of loyalty, by telling everything.
 
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DavidPT

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After President Trump said that he didn't know Rudy Giuliani associate Lev Parnas, Parnas' attorney Joseph Bondy released a video that shows the two together in a group of people at Mar-a-Lago.



Since Trump is President, he can't even go anywhere without being surrounded by the secret service, or whatever they might be called, can he? And if yes, wouldn't they know whether or not Trump actually personally knows Parnas like Parnas has been claiming? BTW, for the record, unless new evidence surfaces proving Parnas to be an outright liar altogether, currently I am finding him somewhat credible.
 
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The Barbarian

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Since Trump is President, he can't even go anywhere without being surrounded by the secret service, or whatever they might be called, can he? And if yes, wouldn't they know whether or not Trump actually personally knows Parnas like Parnas has been claiming?

Yep. But they don't give interviews it's the "secret" side of the Secret Service. Looks like at least one of them in that video of Trump and Parnas at some kind of a party.

BTW, for the record, unless new evidence surfaces proving Parnas to be an outright liar altogether, currently I am finding him somewhat credible.
 
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hislegacy

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After President Trump said that he didn't know Rudy Giuliani associate Lev Parnas, Parnas' attorney Joseph Bondy released a video that shows the two together in a group of people at Mar-a-Lago.

source citation please

as for Trump being with someone, you do realize he can meet someone in a crowd and not know them, right?

shoot, they could also be working for someone connected with him, and it doesn’t mean he knows them.

in the case of the ‘source’ that is trying to broker a deal. He is not reliable, especially since the Ukrainian officials don’t know who he is either.

First President to be impeached on hearsay.
 
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The Barbarian

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source citation please
Joseph A. Bondy on Twitter

as for Trump being with someone, you do realize he can meet someone in a crowd and not know them, right?

Just like he said he hardly knew Epstein, right?

First President to be impeached on hearsay.

Vindman's eyewitness testimony was supported by the transcript of Trump's attempt at quid pro quo, and the GAO determination that he broke the law by withholding aid to Ukraine pending their agreement to help him find dirt on Biden.

So, no.
 
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The Barbarian

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FBI agents on Thursday visited the Connecticut home and business of Robert Hyde, a Republican congressional candidate whose purported surveillance of the U.S. ambassador in Ukraine last year has become an issue in the impeachment of President Donald Trump.
...
Parnas and Giuliani last year were engaged in an effort to oust Yovanovitch as part of a broader push to get Ukraine to investigate former Vice President Joe Biden, the current front-runner for the Democratic presidential nomination.
...
In a March 23 text message to Parnas, Hyde had written of Yovanovitch, “Wow. Can’t believe Trumo [sic] hasn’t fired this b----. I’ll get right in that.”

“She [sic] under heavy protection outside Kiev,” Hyde texted.

He went on to describe Yovanovitch’s location, her communications and her security level.

“They are moving her tomorrow,” Hyde wrote Parnas on May 25.

Later that same day, Hyde texted: “She’s talked to three people. Her phone is off. Computer is off.”

And then, “She’s next to the embassy.”
FBI visits home of Robert Hyde, Trump donor at center of Ukraine ambassador spy scandal
106340381-1579192906588screenshot2020-01-16at11.39.42am.png

Hyde with an associate.



 
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The Barbarian

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Ukraine opens criminal probe into purported monitoring of ex-U.S. ambassador

The criminal probe stems from newly revealed messages exchanged between Lev Parnas, an associate of Rudy Giuliani, and Robert Hyde, a Republican donor and congressional candidate from Connecticut, which show the two seemingly discussing Yovanovitch's whereabouts. Hyde has said the messages were made in jest and did not represent an actual effort to track Yovanovitch's movements.
Ukraine opens criminal probe into purported monitoring of ex-U.S. ambassador
 
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HannahT

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You act as if Democrats "hated" Trump from the get go for no reason.

Instead they were astute enough to analyze the facts and see that he was incapable to lead our country.

But they aren't magicians. Trump's accomplices, some appointed and some elected, have successfully obstructed justice, suppressed evidence, and hidden the truth.

You should give Democrats credit for being able to uncover what they did. Imagine what they would have come up.with had the DOJ not been led by an obstructor general.

The fissures are beginning to widen. May the truth set us free.

I didn't think either Clinton or Trump were capable of running or leading the country. (Shrugs) I thought we had two rotten choices to be honest.

Their astute ways handed the country Trump. Remember they had all this proof and polls saying he didn't have chance! It would be a landslide. Opps! THey were off a bit there weren't they? Maybe lay off the hate that blinds them and show something more people get behind. They failed at that, and choose melodramatics instead. That path isn't working well for them either.

For a couple of years now we have all heard the claims of all these crimes, and how they had it in the bag. You don't have to be a magician to bring it forward. They kept their vague charges coming to keep people interested, and the media reporting. Their exaggerations have come to roost it seems to me. THe last biggie was Mueller not getting the memo from them about collusion - I will hand them that credit.

All we have is a fight about a Ukraine call and the other charge because they didn't want to go court to force the subject on witness/documents, etc. What happened to all the other stuff they had proof on too? It's not in there. If they had it together they would be throwing everything but the kitchen sink at him - since they have claimed having proof this whole journey. It's ridiculous.

I think Trump is a blowhard, and I thought Obama was arrogant. Those aren't crimes their personality traits. I doubt very much he will get thrown out of office at this point. Things could change I suppose, but I don't see it at this point. You want to hand Democrats credit for coming to trial with NOT enough to win - which they know they don't at this point - go right ahead. That was their choice, and they knew it ahead of time. I don't call that astute at all.
 
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The Barbarian

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Their astute ways handed the country Trump. Remember they had all this proof and polls saying he didn't have chance! It would be a landslide. Opps! THey were off a bit there weren't they?

Hmm... let's take a look...
No, you got it wrong. Even Clinton said it was going to be close. And the polls predicted she'd get about 3% more votes than Trump. She got about 2% more.
RealClearPolitics - Election 2016 - General Election: Trump vs. Clinton

All we have is a fight about a Ukraine call and the other charge because they didn't want to go court to force the subject on witness/documents, etc.

Since the GAO has found that Trump violated the law, that was a pretty good call.

What happened to all the other stuff they had proof on too?

More and more of it's now being made public.
 
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hislegacy

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Vindman's eyewitness testimony was supported by the transcript of Trump's attempt at quid pro quo, and the GAO determination that he broke the law by withholding aid to Ukraine pending their agreement to help him find dirt on Biden.

moment of honesty here.

When Vindman was cross examined and asked if he had first hand knowledge of bribery, or Quid pro quo. What was his answer?
 
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The Barbarian

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But Vindman, who was on the July 25 call, testified that Trump was only willing to give the Ukrainians that meeting if Zelensky’s administration agreed to open an investigation into Burisma, a probe that would impact the Bidens.

“Was there any doubt in your mind as to what the President, our President, was asking for as a deliverable?” Vindman was asked. “There was no doubt,” he replied.
https://www.vox.com/2019/11/8/20955480/impeachment-vindman-testimony-trump-demand-quid-pro-quo

As you see, he clearly stated what Trump did. It doesn't matter what he called it. If he later retracted that testimony, I'd be pleased to see your evidence for it.





 
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