True saving faith is proven by your repentance

[renniks]

The Law of Moses is no more. We are under a New Covenant with New Commands. If you have other more worrisome sins to confess than traffic laws, I would encourage you to confess them with the intent that you will be forgiven of them if you confess them because that is what 1 John 1:9 says. You believe that you are forgiven even before confessing them. But 1 John 1:9 paints a different picture or reality than what you say and believe.

I confess sins in a general way most every night, and some that God brings to mind whenever. But confessing them doesn't save me. That was a done deal when I first accepted Christ. Confessing is important because it keeps our communication with God honest.

 

[alan650]

It is very dangerous to not repent as a Christian. I don't know about you but when I am aware of a sin against my Savior and have the conviction from the Holy Spirit I immediately want to confess it and repent to God! There is an easy believing out there that is teaching that we must only nod our head to "Yes Jesus is the Savior" and that is all we need to do to get saved but the Bible teaches otherwise. Many people have already shown examples here. Being a Christian is a daily walk of humbling ourselves before God and repenting. We must have the Holy Spirit working in our hearts or we aren't really saved!

 

[aiki]

That's a relationship. When we're born again, we're born sons of God. What is that if not a relationship?

Where have I suggested otherwise? Of course, being adopted by God into His family establishes a new, spiritual relationship between the believer and God. Every person created by God has a relationship to Him as the product of His creative power, sustained at every moment by Him, but the born-again person enters into a more intimate relationship with God when they become His child. That relational intimacy, that fellowship, can be greatly increased by the believer walking well with God, or it can be greatly hindered by sin and/or ignorance. It is this intimate communion with God that a believer risks, not their membership in His family, when they sin.

You are trying to make a distinction where none exists because to admit a relationship mangles your pretext that Christians cannot lose their salvation.

And you are deflecting my point here by trying to assign a motive to my comments.

He didn't have a relationship. Without fellowship there is no relationship.

This is nonsense. The father of the Prodigal acknowledged the existence of the father-son relationship when he said that his son was "dead." Not some stranger, some person utterly unrelated to him, but his son, which is a title denoting relationship. It seems you're so desperate to avoid having to admit you're mistaken that you'll assert nonsense rather than do so.

From a dead relationship. One called dead explicitly in the text.

Where? Where does the father ever say his relationship to his son was dead? Nowhere. The father never says this; it's a construction you're imposing upon his words. Again, every time the father referred to the Prodigal as his son, he was testifying to his relationship to his son (and vice versa). No, it was not their relationship that was "dead" but their intimate communion, their fellowship, with one another that simulated the same circumstance actual death would have imposed upon it.

Jesus said that children must be received in his name. Meaning that he considered children his. Since they haven't yet fallen into sin, they're all his children. They die when they sin. In other words our relationship dies when we sin.

Where does Jesus indicate, exactly, that receiving children in his name meant that he regarded them as born-again, adopted children of God? I think you're doing some more imposing of meaning upon the text of Scripture. You've also conveniently ignored the two verse I cited that indicate all people are born in sin.

 

[Al Touthentop]

This is nonsense. The father of the Prodigal acknowledged the existence of the father-son relationship when he said that his son was "dead." Not some stranger, some person utterly unrelated to him, but his son, which is a title denoting relationship. It seems you're so desperate to avoid having to admit you're mistaken that you'll assert nonsense rather than do so.

Blood relationship. Not active relationship. Dead relationship. The son was himself alive but his relationship to his father was effectively dead.

Where? Where does the father ever say his relationship to his son was dead? Nowhere. The father never says this; it's a construction you're imposing upon his words. Again, every time the father referred to the Prodigal as his son, he was testifying to his relationship to his son (and vice versa). No, it was not their relationship that was "dead" but their intimate communion, their fellowship, with one another that simulated the same circumstance actual death would have imposed upon it.

You have already admitted that the son was not literally dead and that he was still was his father's son. Yet the father said, "my son was dead."

Dead TO him. No relationship. No fellowship. They are the same thing. You are trying to change definitions because it suits your doctrinal belief that there is some distinction. If there is a distinction, show me in the text where God makes a distinction between relationship and fellowship.

Where does Jesus indicate, exactly, that receiving children in his name meant that he regarded them as born-again, adopted children of God? I think you're doing some more imposing of meaning upon the text of Scripture. You've also conveniently ignored the two verse I cited that indicate all people are born in sin.

Since I didn't say what you're asserting here, I don't have to prove anything to your false standard. Children are born the first time, sinless. You didn't cite a verse saying that we're all born in sin because there isn't one.

There is a verse in the Psalms where David intimates that he was conceived in sin which is a statement about his parents, not himself. If you read Samuel, you can see that he didn't look like his brothers. They all looked like warriors. God told Samuel, don't judge by appearances and then had him anoint David. Apparently, David had suspicions or discovered that one of his parents had an adulterous relationship.

Nowhere in the bible does it say that children are born sinful. Sin is disobedience to God. It is the result of our action, not our birth. Paul makes that abundantly clear in Romans. "Because every man sinned."
Not every child or infant.

 

[Al Touthentop]

You clearly don't understand grace. I just remembered I made an illegal u-turn a week or so ago. On that trip, I also went over the speed limit multiple times, to keep with the flow of traffic. Now, does that mean I have to remember and confess every single time I broke the law of the land?

Grace does not mean that God overlooks sins. It means that he provided a way to cleanse our sins. Why do you think that God would forgive you for a sin you don't believe is a sin?

Have I been under condemnation and bound for hell for a week because I didn't confess these violations? Truth is, they never even crossed my mind in the context of asking God to forgive them. I had plenty of more worrisome sins to confess.

No sin is more or less worrisome than another.

If we lose our salvation every time we break the law, every Christian that travels to work loses their salvation every morning.

Nonsense. People can obey the laws and they can break them. If their conscience doesn't bother them it is because they have destroyed their own conscience by constant disobedience. If one constantly fornicates he can also convince himself that his fornication is acceptable.

You can't live by the law, and neither can I. It's impossible. All you've done is substitute the old testament law for a new series of rules. Rule keeping can't save you, only the blood of Christ can.

This is taking Paul right out of context. He said that you can't live by the law of Moses and be justified because that law is obsolete and was replaced with a new law.

 

[renniks]

Nonsense. People can obey the laws and they can break them. If their conscience doesn't bother them it is because they have destroyed their own conscience by constant disobedience. If one constantly fornicates he can also convince himself that his fornication is acceptable.

I would assume then, that you never sin? Unless you have been perfect in every single way since your salvation, by your theology, you are hell bound.

 

[Al Touthentop]

I would assume then, that you never sin? Unless you have been perfect in every single way since your salvation, by your theology, you are hell bound.

That isn't what the bible teaches. I never said that I haven't sinned. You're claiming something about "my" theology that I never said. So I don't need to respond to your strawman.

The bible teaches that even the saved need to ask for forgiveness when they sin.

John explains explicitly that when one sins and says he hasn't sinned, he's a liar and the truth isn't in him. So when we sin, we need to confess and ask for forgiveness. And he is faithful to forgive. That's what the bible says. I just happen to believe it.

 

[renniks]

Grace does not mean that God overlooks sins. It means that he provided a way to cleanse our sins. Why do you think that God would forgive you for a sin you don't believe is a sin?

Yes, he did, once for all sins. I think God will forgive me because he already provided atonement for every sin I will ever commit.
Where did I say I didn't believe it was a sin?
Yes, we definitely should confess sins that God reveals to us. It keeps our communication with him honest. But if we have to confess every one, including all the ones we don't even remember, we're all doomed.

 

[renniks]

[

John explains explicitly that when one sins and says he hasn't sinned, he's a liar and the truth isn't in him. So when we sin, we need to confess and ask for forgiveness. And he is faithful to forgive. That's what the bible says. I just happen to believe it.

Well... I didn't say I didn't sin.? In fact I confessed some of my sins before the whole forum.

 

[Al Touthentop]

[

Well... I didn't say I didn't sin.? In fact I confessed some of my sins before the whole forum.

We don't matter. You confess sins to God and ask for forgiveness. You don't confess your sins in public and then tell people it's stupid to think that God would hold you accountable for that sin because "everybody does it."

 

[Al Touthentop]

Yes, he did, once for all sins. I think God will forgive me because he already provided atonement for every sin I will ever commit.

What you're saying is that God gives you a license to sin. The bible teaches the opposite.

Yes, we definitely should confess sins that God reveals to us. It keeps our communication with him honest. But if we have to confess every one, including all the ones we don't even remember, we're all doomed.

The bible teaches the opposite of doom in this scenario. Confession and asking for forgiveness cleanses us of our sin. Every one. Your attitude about his is exactly the opposite of what John was teaching. Your sin matters but God gives you grace and you clean up your condition so that you can remain in fellowship with God.

"God is light and there is NO darkness in him." Not even one darkness.

 

[renniks]

We don't matter. You confess sins to God and ask for forgiveness. You don't confess your sins in public and then tell people it's stupid to think that God would hold you accountable for that sin because "everybody does it."

Now, I really confused. It's stupid of me to think God will hold me accountable for my sin? Ok?

 

[Al Touthentop]

Now, I really confused. It's stupid of me to think God will hold me accountable for my sin? Ok?

YOU said that. You said that because everyone breaks the law on their way to work, your breaking of the law is no big deal and it's just silly to require you to ask for forgiveness for every single little sin.

You are asserting that God just automatically forgives you of sin without any action on your part.

 

[renniks]

The bible teaches the opposite of doom in this scenario. Confession and asking for forgiveness cleanses us of our sin. Every one. Your attitude about his is exactly the opposite of what John was teaching. Your sin matters but God gives you grace and you clean up your condition so that you can remain in fellowship with God.

"God is light and there is NO darkness in him." Not even one darkness.

I'm not sure what you think my attitude is. I agree, my sin matters but God gives me grace to clean up my condition so that you can remain in fellowship with God.
Which is pretty much what I said before.

 

[renniks]

YOU said that. You said that because everyone breaks the law on their way to work, your breaking of the law is no big deal and it's just silly to require you to ask for forgiveness for every single little sin.

Nope, I didn't say that. I suggest you go back and read it again.

 

[renniks]

YOU said that. You said that because everyone breaks the law on their way to work, your breaking of the law is no big deal and it's just silly to require you to ask for forgiveness for every single little sin.

You are asserting that God just automatically forgives you of sin without any action on your part.

Ok, since you seem to have misunderstood me, I will try to explain further. I definitely don't think my sins don't matter. What I do think is that every one of us have a whole bunch of sins, that we rarely ever confess, because we don't even usually recognize them as sin. And this is especially true for legalistic Christians. They are meticulous about keeping away from the obvious ones, while having lots of sins that are more harmful than the ones that abstain from. I conclude that if I tried to confess every sin, with my faulty memory, and as far as it depends on me, I would definitely miss a few hundred of them. If it depends on me to confess every one to maintain salvation, it's not happening.
Fortunately God has more grace than we tend to think he does.

 

[Al Touthentop]

Ok, since you seem to have misunderstood me, I will try to explain further. I definitely don't think my sins don't matter. What I do think is that every one of us have a whole bunch of sins, that we rarely ever confess, because we don't even usually recognize them as sin.

Ok, what you're doing here is defining what other people think. Based on what I'm not sure. But I do think you're right that some people have a damaged conscience. That's the whole purpose of thinking about what we do, knowing God's law and DOING what he asked of us.

And this is especially true for legalistic Christians. They are meticulous about keeping away from the obvious ones, while having lots of sins that are more harmful than the ones that abstain from.

You're merely accusing people who think that every law is important of not thinking every law is important. That's contradictory on its face. You can see that can't you?

I conclude that if I tried to confess every sin, with my faulty memory, and as far as it depends on me, I would definitely miss a few hundred of them. If it depends on me to confess every one to maintain salvation, it's not happening.
Fortunately God has more grace than we tend to think he does.

Well, since God said that you must remember and confess, then you're just telling God that his plan is too hard for you.

25 “Yet you say, ‘The way of the Lord is not fair.’ Hear now, O house of Israel, is it not My way which is fair, and your ways which are not fair? 26 When a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, commits iniquity, and dies in it, it is because of the iniquity which he has done that he dies. 27 Again, when a wicked man turns away from the wickedness which he committed, and does what is lawful and right, he preserves himself alive. 28 Because he considers and turns away from all the transgressions which he committed, he shall surely live; he shall not die. 29 Yet the house of Israel says, ‘The way of the Lord is not fair.’ O house of Israel, is it not My ways which are fair, and your ways which are not fair?

 

[renniks]

Ok, what you're doing here is defining what other people think. Based on what I'm not sure. But I do think you're right that some people have a damaged conscience. That's the whole purpose of thinking about what we do, knowing God's law and DOING what he asked of us.




You're merely accusing people who think that every law is important of not thinking every law is important. That's contradictory on its face. You can see that can't you?


Well, since God said that you must remember and confess, then you're just telling God that his plan is too hard for you.

25 “Yet you say, ‘The way of the Lord is not fair.’ Hear now, O house of Israel, is it not My way which is fair, and your ways which are not fair? 26 When a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, commits iniquity, and dies in it, it is because of the iniquity which he has done that he dies. 27 Again, when a wicked man turns away from the wickedness which he committed, and does what is lawful and right, he preserves himself alive. 28 Because he considers and turns away from all the transgressions which he committed, he shall surely live; he shall not die. 29 Yet the house of Israel says, ‘The way of the Lord is not fair.’ O house of Israel, is it not My ways which are fair, and your ways which are not fair?

You know that we are not under the law anymore, right?
17For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

 

[Al Touthentop]

You know that we are not under the law anymore, right?
17For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

Ezekiel 18 is a general statement about God's treatment of those who follow his commands. We're not under the law Moses. But we are under a law. James calls it the "perfect law of liberty." It's a law and we are called to obey it.

 

[renniks]

Ezekiel 18 is a general statement about God's treatment of those who follow his commands. We're not under the law Moses. But we are under a law. James calls it the "perfect law of liberty." It's a law and we are called to obey it.

"Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. 3 For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit."

Yes, we are now called to obey a law of love. Do we do that perfectly?

1 John 1:8
8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

You may believe that you have always confessed everything perfectly if you wish. I suspect that believing one can do anything perfectly is a sin in itself, because it's pride.