True saving faith is proven by your repentance

Monksailor

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There is little point using scripture if you are not going to explain it

what do you think is that non wilful sin, covertness? He used that previously
I ALREADY EXPLAINED it in a previous post. The point for this thread is as I stated, that apparently, the Apostle Paul struggled with sin also going by the PRESENT TENSE. Any other point, as to conjecturing what kind of sin is moot here and a tangent-ary waste of time. The point is, he was struggling with sin, as a Christian.
 
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Guojing

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I ALREADY EXPLAINED it in a previous post. The point for this thread is as I stated, that apparently, the Apostle Paul struggled with sin also going by the PRESENT TENSE. Any other point, as to conjecturing what kind of sin is moot here and a tangent-ary waste of time. The point is, he was struggling with sin, as a Christian.

So you cannot think of any examples of non-wilful sin? Okay then.
 
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Blade

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"you were only forgiven of the sins you had committed up to that point in time!" "pushes over carts"
There is no verse in the bible that says this. And no one that I know of would or does use 1 Peter 1:9-11.
Well no where in Peters letters does it say that. Nor any other book. So before I was born Christ NEW all the sins I would ever do BUT its only until I believe? So the blood of a GOD was not enough.. so Paul or the holy Spirit was right. This puts Chris to open shame.
 
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CharismaticLady

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arent u the one who distinguished between wilful and non wilful? You don’t want to elaborate on the difference?

I attend a charismatic church if that answer is important to you

Yes I do teach what the Bible says about it. We need to know how God views sin, not how man-made denominations teach about it to fill their pews.

Besides sins unto death, and sins not unto death, what do you want to know? 1 John 5:14-15 And the sin unto death here is not the "blasphemy against the Holy Spirit."
 
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Monksailor

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Jesus became a man and proved that a man could be completely sinless. It wasn't his "Godness" that prevented him from sin, it was his obedience.

When you compare Jesus to man you need to keep in mind the following:
  • Jesus was not only man, He was part man/part God, conceived of the Holy Spirit.
  • Jesus was/is the "Word Incarnate" or "the Word made flesh" and the "true light" and the ONLY BEGOTTEN SON of God, the Father of the gospel John ch. 1 (Bible Gateway passage: John 1:1-18 - New International Version) and ch 3
  • There is only one piece of offensive armor mentioned in Ephes 6 to arm oneself with against the powers of darkness as a Christian ......the Word of God, Jesus is the Word made flesh. There is no way satan could defeat Him. Because of his partial humanity He could be tempted and feel it as we but it was over with before satan began, in his limited ability he just did not know it for the three temptations or for the power of the cross.
  • Yes, Jesus was perfectly obedient, but He was God the Father's ONLY begotten Son, God, the Son, Himself. Gentiles are "grafted" into the heritage and all believers are "adopted" children. And ALL of God's children, other than Jesus, are 100% human, Adam's offspring, 100%.
 
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aiki

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They are in fact synonymous. The word John used is κοινωνιαν - which essentially means to have things in common. That's what a relationship is.

No, in fact, fellowship and relationship are not synonymous - not as far as I'm concerned, anyway. Very disparate things, things quite unrelated to each other, may have things in common. For instance, I share in common with every black hole in the universe a presence in the universe. I am in the universe and so are black holes; we have this in common, but we have no direct relationship to each other - certainly not in the sense meant in Scripture when it says believers have fellowship with Jesus Christ and God the Father (1 John 1:3), believers who in other places are called God's children and branches, denoting intimate communion between God and the Christian believer.

The other ways that this word is defined is "partnership", "sharing," "partakers," and of course "fellowship."

As I said in my last post, there is some overlap between the two terms (fellowship and relationship) - one cannot have fellowship with someone with whom one does not first have a relationship - but "fellowship" speaks of intimate communion in a way the word "relationship" does not. This intimacy between a believer and God is spelled out in other places in Scripture quite clearly (John 15:5; Romans 8:15-17; Galatians 3:26, Ephesians 5:1, etc.).

In fact, you won't find the word relationship in the new testament. The bible wasn't written yesterday and it wasn't written in English.

No kidding. I suppose the next thing you'll tell me is that the sky is blue or that a circle has no right angles.

Fellowship and partaking of things in common is what relationship is.

Nope. See above.

The son had no relationship with his father.

Of course he did: He was his father's son. Even if he'd died, he'd still have been so. What he didn't have with his father was intimate communion - fellowship - with him.

The father still loved him but it was the restoration of the relationship which caused the father to rejoice.

Fellowship is a form of relating but that which is distinguished by intimate communion. Such communion the father and son did not have, though they were inextricably related to each other as father and son.

The father let the son, of his own free will, separate himself from that relationship.

From what relationship? No matter how far the son might have strayed, he was always and ever his father's son.

It was the son's repentance which caused him to seek out his father.

Yes. Is someone denying this? I haven't.

We are born sons of God. It is our leaving of our father through sin which causes the initial separation (death) and it isn't until we repent that we can restore this relationship (life). That's what Jesus and the new testament authors taught.

As far as I'm aware, nowhere in the New Testament does the statement "we are born sons of God" appear in reference to the unsaved person. All people are born in sin (Romans 5:18-19; Psalms 51:5), cursed by the Fall, "dead in trespasses and sins." But when they come into relationship with God as His beloved children by faith in Christ as their Lord and Saviour, they are forever His, accepted in the Beloved (Ephesians 1:6) (and ONLY accepted thereby) with whom God is always pleased. And it is because this is so, because the believer is accepted by God on the merits of Christ, not on their own merits, they can rest assured their acceptance by God never wavers, never dissolves.
 
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CharismaticLady

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@CharismaticLady

Even the apostle Paul admits that he was still sinful in Romans 6 and Romans 7.

Are you more Holy than he is?

Where in six?

As for seven, you just needed to read 2 more verses to see that he has been freed from sin.
 
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Guojing

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Yes I do teach what the Bible says about it. We need to know how God views sin, not how man-made denominations teach about it to fill their pews.

Besides sins unto death, and sins not unto death, what do you want to know? 1 John 5:14-15 And the sin unto death here is not the "blasphemy against the Holy Spirit."

So, what is your example of a sin that is non wilful? Surely you can come out with at least one, if you believe there is such a distinction?
 
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ChetSinger

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Good grief, these threads stir people up.

Of course Jesus wants us to repent. If a man comes to Christ and is a tax cheat, Jesus wants him to repent. If he's been beating his wife, Jesus wants him to repent. That list could go on and on. Imo that is a no-brainer.

But while repentance of some sins can occur immediately after salvation, other sins are more deeply ingrained in us. In fact, the Holy Spirit quickens our consciences so that behaviors we once considered normal we now perceive as sinful. Thus we battle between the flesh and the spirit.

What I would like to see emphasized more strongly in these threads is the other half of the gospel, which is that we are adopted children of God, that he loves us deeply, and that he's eager to help us cleanse ourselves as we walk along in our lives. And that he is slow to anger and abounding in steadfast love. And that it is the Father's good pleasure to give us the kingdom (which I think is one of the most amazing statements in the NT, so amazing that I would think it unbelievable without coming out of the mouth of Jesus himself).

When we sin we still have access to that same divine forgiveness we did when first calling upon him. Asking God for continued forgiveness is so fundamental that Jesus included it in the Lord's Prayer.

So I wrestle, and sometimes I fail. And when I fail I confess my failure, ask forgiveness, and by the grace of God pick myself up and continue on.
 
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Neogaia777

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Good grief, these threads stir people up.

Of course Jesus wants us to repent. If a man comes to Christ and is a tax cheat, Jesus wants him to repent. If he's been beating his wife, Jesus wants him to repent. That list could go on and on. Imo that is a no-brainer.

But while repentance of some sins can occur immediately after salvation, other sins are more deeply ingrained in us. In fact, the Holy Spirit quickens our consciences so that behaviors we once considered normal we now perceive as sinful. Thus we battle between the flesh and the spirit.

What I would like to see emphasized more strongly in these threads is the other half of the gospel, which is that we are adopted children of God, that he loves us deeply, and that he's eager to help us cleanse ourselves as we walk along in our lives. And that he is slow to anger and abounding in steadfast love. And that it is the Father's good pleasure to give us the kingdom (which I think is one of the most amazing statements in the NT, so amazing that I would think it unbelievable without coming out of the mouth of Jesus himself).

When we sin we still have access to that same divine forgiveness we did when first calling upon him. Asking God for continued forgiveness is so fundamental that Jesus included it in the Lord's Prayer.

So I wrestle, and sometimes I fail. And when I fail I confess my failure, ask forgiveness, and by the grace of God pick myself up and continue on.
Some think you believe and repent, or repent and believe, and then your done and never ever sin again ever, or you forfeit or lose your salvation if you do, etc. They think that ongoing, continuing continual repentance just shows or proves your not saved, etc, and they think they have no need of it or that and that they are saved but you are not because you do or do see a need for it still, etc. And they are very quick to tell you so, or to do and try their best to point it out to you (judge you) every single time, and/or teach this or spread this "heresy" or "false gospel" in any way they can, or always in "one form or another", constantly changing their methods and/or forms of it or words, but never changing their ideas or ideologies or "stance" on this at all ever, etc... Just constantly coming up with new and more subtle ways to say it and/or try to teach and/or say and/or spread it, etc...

And it's a false gospel and anti-gospel and any true Christian should be vehemently against it always, etc...

God Bless!
 
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Neogaia777

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Some think you believe and repent, or repent and believe, and then your done and never ever sin again ever, or you forfeit or lose your salvation if you do, etc. They think that ongoing, continuing continual repentance just shows or proves your not saved, etc, and they think they have no need of it or that and that they are saved but you are not because you do or do see a need for it still, etc. And they are very quick to tell you so, or to do and try their best to point it out to you (judge you) every single time, and/or teach this or spread this "heresy" or "false gospel" in any way they can, or always in "one form or another", constantly changing their methods and/or forms of it or words, but never changing their ideas or ideologies or "stance" on this at all ever, etc... Just constantly coming up with new and more subtle ways to say it and/or try to teach and/or say and/or spread it, etc...

And it's a false gospel and anti-gospel and any true Christian should be vehemently against it always, etc...

God Bless!
And now they are probably going to try to tell you that not all sin is equal or willful or is not all the same, etc, which is another anti false gospel and teaching, etc, cause in God's eyes they all are "is" or is always are always, etc...

They do this to, again, to try to justify themselves and look down on or at others, etc...

And if your not 100% against that or any of this that they do, etc, then I don't see how you call call yourself a true Christian or say you are standing up for "the truth" in general at all either, etc...

Cause they lie and are liars also, etc...

Anyway,

God Bless!
 
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Neogaia777

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And now they are probably going to try to tell you that not all sin is equal or willful or is not all the same, etc, which is another anti false gospel and teaching, etc, cause in God's eyes they all are "is" or is always are always, etc...

They do this to, again, to try to justify themselves and look down on or at others, etc...

And if your not 100% against that or any of this that they do, etc, then I don't see how you call call yourself a true Christian or say you are standing up for "the truth" in general at all either, etc...

Cause they lie and are liars also, etc...

Anyway,

God Bless!
And then, now they will probably tell you you are saying this cause you are a sinner and are trying to "justify sin", etc, another one of their tactics, etc, when in reality that is not true at all, you just know the truth and are vehemently against the "anti-truth" and all the "lies" they are teaching and saying and speaking and spreading, etc...

God Bless!
 
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Neogaia777

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In short, and in truth, if you do not see the need for daily, ongoing repentance till the day you die here or leave this world here, than I do not see how you call call yourself a true Christian or claim to one of His, cause I don't think you are and I think you are actually most definitely are not, etc, and that's just "the truth", etc...

Especially when they do what they do to look down on or at other people or fell better or somehow superior, etc...

They are the very opposite of "humble", etc, proud, arrogant, haughty, full of themselves and self-assuming, probably "braggarts" too, etc...

Anyway, that's enough of my rant for now...

God Bless!
 
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Neogaia777

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In short, and in truth, if you do not see the need for daily, ongoing repentance till the day you die here or leave this world here, than I do not see how you call call yourself a true Christian or claim to one of His, cause I don't think you are and I think you are actually most definitely are not, etc, and that's just "the truth", etc...

Especially when they do what they do to look down on or at other people or fell better or somehow superior, etc...

They are the very opposite of "humble", etc, proud, arrogant, haughty, full of themselves and self-assuming, probably "braggarts" too, etc...

Anyway, that's enough of my rant for now...

God Bless!
Just one more thing... If you think you can honestly say that you don't have anything about you to have or be ongoingly repentant about, then your not only probably not looking hard enough, for one, but you are also more than likely lying to other people, God, and yourself, in all truth and in perfect honesty, etc...

OK, done for right now...

God Bless!
 
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CharismaticLady

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When we sin we still have access to that same divine forgiveness we did when first calling upon him. Asking God for continued forgiveness is so fundamental that Jesus included it in the Lord's Prayer.

Only trespasses are in the Lord's Prayer, not willful sins of lawlessness.
 
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Neogaia777

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Which 2 verses specifically?
For that matter what does it mean to be "free from sin" and how do you attain it...?

I'll give a little clue, it is not what you (or rather "they") think it means, and how you attain it is the "complete and opposite way" that they are going or try to go about it, etc...

God Bless!
 
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CharismaticLady

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In short, and in truth, if you do not see the need for daily, ongoing repentance till the day you die here or leave this world here, than I do not see how you call call yourself a true Christian or claim to one of His, cause I don't think you are and I think you are actually most definitely are not, etc, and that's just "the truth", etc...

Especially when they do what they do to look down on or at other people or fell better or somehow superior, etc...

They are the very opposite of "humble", etc, proud, arrogant, haughty, full of themselves and self-assuming, probably "braggarts" too, etc...

Anyway, that's enough of my rant for now...

God Bless!

Can you tell me why you would commit sins you need to repent of in the first place after receiving the Holy Spirit to guide you?
 
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