Trump ties with Obama as most admired man.

The Barbarian

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Sorry, but the Bible is clear about Jesus being the only way to the Father.

That's right. And He can save anyone, even if they aren't in my club or your club. That's easily proven, unless you just don't believe the Bible.

Matthew 7:21 Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.


Also, recall the story about the rich man that approached Jesus about how to obtain eternal life? He said he kept all the commandments, but when Jesus told him to give his riches away and follow him, he wouldn't do it. This once again, proves works alone will not save you.

Neither works nor faith alone. God says:

James 2:24 Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only?

As far as the good Samaritan, the rift between the Jews and the Samaritans was the location they worshiped God, not what God they worshiped.

The same differences between Jews, Christians, and Muslims. They get some things wrong about God, even important things. But if they are sincere, they love Him, and seek to serve Him. And that is what matters in the end. A heretic who has love and compassion for his fellow men is far more fortunate than one who is theologically correct, but has no such compassion. Please get this right; theology will not save you. Loving God and loving your fellow man will save you.

The parable was in response to a person asking "Who is my neighbor?". Jesus wasn't teaching people they could just worship whoever they wanted and they would be saved, as long as they were nice to one another.

Matthew 22:37 Jesus said to him: Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart, and with thy whole soul, and with thy whole mind. [38] This is the greatest and the first commandment. [39] And the second is like to this: Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. [40] On these two commandments dependeth the whole law and the prophets.

This is basic Christianity.

Jesus says that at Judgement, there will be people who are saved but are puzzled and ask; "when did I do anything for you?" because they didn't get the theology right. And He will tell them that they did the will of God by caring for others, and are thereby saved.

Matthew 25:37 Then shall the just answer him, saying: Lord, when did we see thee hungry, and fed thee; thirsty, and gave thee drink? [38] And when did we see thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and covered thee? [39] Or when did we see thee sick or in prison, and came to thee? [40] And the king answering, shall say to them: Amen I say to you, as long as you did it to one of these my least brethren, you did it to me.
 
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Jermayn

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That's right. And He can save anyone, even if they aren't in my club or your club. That's easily proven, unless you just don't believe the Bible.

Matthew 7:21 Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.




Neither works nor faith alone. God says:

James 2:24 Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only?



The same differences between Jews, Christians, and Muslims. They get some things wrong about God, even important things. But if they are sincere, they love Him, and seek to serve Him. And that is what matters in the end. A heretic who has love and compassion for his fellow men is far more fortunate than one who is theologically correct, but has no such compassion. Please get this right; theology will not save you. Loving God and loving your fellow man will save you.



Matthew 22:37 Jesus said to him: Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart, and with thy whole soul, and with thy whole mind. [38] This is the greatest and the first commandment. [39] And the second is like to this: Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. [40] On these two commandments dependeth the whole law and the prophets.

This is basic Christianity.

Jesus says that at Judgement, there will be people who are saved but are puzzled and ask; "when did I do anything for you?" because they didn't get the theology right. And He will tell them that they did the will of God by caring for others, and are thereby saved.

Matthew 25:37 Then shall the just answer him, saying: Lord, when did we see thee hungry, and fed thee; thirsty, and gave thee drink? [38] And when did we see thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and covered thee? [39] Or when did we see thee sick or in prison, and came to thee? [40] And the king answering, shall say to them: Amen I say to you, as long as you did it to one of these my least brethren, you did it to me.

You still did not address this verse:

1 John 2:22-23 22And who is a liar? Anyone who says that Jesus is not the Christ.f Anyone who denies the Father and the Son is an antichrist.g 23Anyone who denies the Son doesn’t have the Father, either. But anyone who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

Muslims, and all other non-Christian religion, DOES NOT accept Jesus as the Christ. Notice this verse has no gray area. You can be the most compassionate person on earth, but if you do not acknowledge Jesus as the Christ, YOU DO NOT HAVE THE FATHER. If you do not build your foundation on the rock (Jesus), you will be washed away when the floods come. You may not be saved by faith alone, but that doesn't mean you don't have to have faith. Do me a favor and go ask a Muslim, Atheist, or other non-Christian if they think Jesus is the Christ. When they say no, re-read the 2 verses above. I don't think this can be any clearer.
 
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The Barbarian

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1 John 2:22-23 22And who is a liar? Anyone who says that Jesus is not the Christ.f Anyone who denies the Father and the Son is an antichrist.g 23Anyone who denies the Son doesn’t have the Father, either. But anyone who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

I don't see it as cancelling out what Jesus says about who will be saved. As he says, it won't be those who called Him Lord, but those who did what God wants.

It's why Jesus said it was better to be a Samaritan with charity than a believer without charity.

Again, theology will not save you. Your charity, or lack of it, will determine your eternal home. Assuming that Jesus is right.
 
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tulc

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You still did not address this verse:

1 John 2:22-23 22And who is a liar? Anyone who says that Jesus is not the Christ.f Anyone who denies the Father and the Son is an antichrist.g 23Anyone who denies the Son doesn’t have the Father, either. But anyone who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

Muslims, and all other non-Christian religion, DOES NOT accept Jesus as the Christ. Notice this verse has no gray area. You can be the most compassionate person on earth, but if you do not acknowledge Jesus as the Christ, YOU DO NOT HAVE THE FATHER. If you do not build your foundation on the rock (Jesus), you will be washed away when the floods come. You may not be saved by faith alone, but that doesn't mean you don't have to have faith. Do me a favor and go ask a Muslim, Atheist, or other non-Christian if they think Jesus is the Christ. When they say no, re-read the 2 verses above. I don't think this can be any clearer.
uhmmm...you might want to read that whole chapter with those Scriptures in context before you start trying to tell people what those two isolated verses mean:
1 John 2 said:
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.

8 Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.

9 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.

10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.

11 But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.

12 I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake.

13 I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father.

14 I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.

15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.

21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.


24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.

25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.

27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.
the bolded portions are the two verses you used, but if you look at it in the context of the whole chapter you might see it's not actually saying what you want it to say. :wave:
tulc(would remind people "a text, without a context, is a pretext for a proof text")
 
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Jermayn

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I don't see it as cancelling out what Jesus says about who will be saved. As he says, it won't be those who called Him Lord, but those who did what God wants.

It's why Jesus said it was better to be a Samaritan with charity than a believer without charity.

Again, theology will not save you. Your charity, or lack of it, will determine your eternal home. Assuming that Jesus is right.

Jesus says in John 3:16 who will be saved. Those that believe in him. It's stated over and over again throughout the Bible that Jesus is the only way to salvation, which involves BELIEF in him as well as living faith, or faith coupled with works.
 
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Jermayn

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uhmmm...you might want to read that whole chapter with those Scriptures in context before you start trying to tell people what those two isolated verses mean:

the bolded portions are the two verses you used, but if you look at it in the context of the whole chapter you might see it's not actually saying what you want it to say. :wave:
tulc(would remind people "a text, without a context, is a pretext for a proof text")

This whole chapter says exactly what I stated. Look at verse 21.

"21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth."

John was writing to the church; people that already believed in Jesus as the Christ. He's telling them that people who deny Jesus are antichrists and do not have the Father in them. Again, there's an abundance of passages stating that living faith, or faith coupled with works, in Jesus are required for salvation. Faith alone will not cut it, but works alone will not either.
 
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The Barbarian

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Jesus says in John 3:16 who will be saved. Those that believe in him.

Let's take a look...

Matthew 25:31 And when the Son of man shall come in his majesty, and all the angels with him, then shall he sit upon the seat of his majesty. [32] And all nations shall be gathered together before him, and he shall separate them one from another, as the shepherd separateth the sheep from the goats: [33] And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left. [34] Then shall the king say to them that shall be on his right hand: Come, ye blessed of my Father, possess you the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. [35] For I was hungry, and you gave me to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave me to drink; I was a stranger, and you took me in:

[36] Naked, and you covered me: sick, and you visited me: I was in prison, and you came to me. [37] Then shall the just answer him, saying: Lord, when did we see thee hungry, and fed thee; thirsty, and gave thee drink? [38] And when did we see thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and covered thee? [39] Or when did we see thee sick or in prison, and came to thee? [40] And the king answering, shall say to them: Amen I say to you, as long as you did it to one of these my least brethren, you did it to me.



Jesus says you're wrong. It's stated over and over again throughout the Bible that what you do will determine your eternal home.

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Set pride aside, and believe what He tells you. Theology will not save you. But doing as He tells you in Matthew 25:31 will save you. You have His word on it.
 
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Jermayn

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Let's take a look...

Matthew 25:31 And when the Son of man shall come in his majesty, and all the angels with him, then shall he sit upon the seat of his majesty. [32] And all nations shall be gathered together before him, and he shall separate them one from another, as the shepherd separateth the sheep from the goats: [33] And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left. [34] Then shall the king say to them that shall be on his right hand: Come, ye blessed of my Father, possess you the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. [35] For I was hungry, and you gave me to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave me to drink; I was a stranger, and you took me in:

[36] Naked, and you covered me: sick, and you visited me: I was in prison, and you came to me. [37] Then shall the just answer him, saying: Lord, when did we see thee hungry, and fed thee; thirsty, and gave thee drink? [38] And when did we see thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and covered thee? [39] Or when did we see thee sick or in prison, and came to thee? [40] And the king answering, shall say to them: Amen I say to you, as long as you did it to one of these my least brethren, you did it to me.



Jesus says you're wrong. It's stated over and over again throughout the Bible that what you do will determine your eternal home.

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Set pride aside, and believe what He tells you. Theology will not save you. But doing as He tells you in Matthew 25:31 will save you. You have His word on it.

All these verses you are throwing out are written to people that believe. Matthew 7:21 is referring to the difference in people that believe and don't do. Do you really think someone can go do all kinds of good works in the name of Allah or Shiva and be saved? I really hope your aren't teaching other people that, because you are leading them down a path of destruction if you are.

Also, I'd like to hear your interpretation of this verse.

Romans 9:10 "Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved."
 
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The Barbarian

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All these verses you are throwing out are written to people that believe.

Nowhere does it say so. That's just your addition to scripture. In Matthew 25, Jesus says that some of the people will be puzzled and ask Him when they did anything for Him. A Christian would know that. So that excuse won't work.

Matthew 7:21 is referring to the difference in people that believe and don't do. Do you really think someone can go do all kinds of good works in the name of Allah or Shiva and be saved?

Since "Allah" is the word Arabic-speaking Christians use for God (and did, long before Islam existed), that much is clearly true. Perhaps you don't know that "God" is what Germanic-speaking Christians use in the same manner. But as you learned, Jesus makes all this clear:

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Romans 9:10 "Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Fits precisely into God's message:
James 2:24 Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only?

Let it be God's way, not yours.


 
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Ricky M

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Democrats, including Obama, have stated multiple times that Christians need to change their beliefs on abortion, that they cling to religion because they are bitter, and they should not be allowed to hold public office. This is the perfect example of removing the beam from your own eye before removing the mote from your brothers.
True. Republicans serve mammon, democrats serve most every other ungodly thing.

Which is why it is time to dump both parties.
 
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Ricky M

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i love Trump and honestly cannot figure out why he is hated by those who follow or claim to follow Jesus (no sure you are in that group?). He has done many things to uphold the rights of Christians the Left want to take away. No, they won't say they are doing that, but...
As a Christian, at this point I believe we must abandon BOTH parties.
 
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jgarden

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I could see that. Barack's star has really fallen since 2017 while President Trump is expanding his own base more and more every day. It makes sense that Barack's decline and President Trump's rise would eventually put the two in parity with each other.
21wilentz-articleLarge.jpg


With all due respect, Presidents Andrew Johnson, James Buchanan, Warren Harding and Franklin Pierce can all now rest peacefully in their graves, secure in the knowledge that with the election of Donald Trump, they will no longer be judged by history as America's worst president(s)!
 
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The Barbarian

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I disagree with him being correct. We, as Christians, don't place our faith in Jesus because we are bitter at some situation we've found ourselves in.

Which is why so many evangelicals put their faith instead, in Donald Trump. Bitter people often go for demagogues who will promise everything.

The economy and job market are coming back to life,

Yep. Since...
Dow Jones up since 2010
large_RD6VcO8jJ8SKukU43ZxdpB8uKIhvQf-3c79wZCTGu4Y.png

Unemployment falling since 2009
large_nDWE7h1krmfo1bdgvXVC33xy812orMKKYz5-Z6Ev1CU.png

Median Wage Growth up since 2010, but sluggish and growing slower than normal:
large_oeBiJgwb9CYH3mczFFZe8FtTzJNbFS9JGHRvm6MQEEo.png

The troubling things are, the yield curve has now inverted, which usually predicts a recession, and income inequality is getting closer to third-world levels, which predicts economic decline.
The state of the US economy in 11 charts

and the government still hasn't, nor ever will, replace Jesus in our lives.

For the evangelical leaders who embraced Trump's way, it's already happened.
 
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The Barbarian

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True. Republicans serve mammon, democrats serve most every other ungodly thing.

Mammon seems to be just one of the things the republicans serve. Their hero serves adultery, lying, fraud, sexual assault and racism, all of which he has been caught doing, or openly boasted about doing.
 
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Jermayn

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Which is why so many evangelicals put their faith instead, in Donald Trump. Bitter people often go for demagogues who will promise everything.



Yep. Since...
Dow Jones up since 2010
large_RD6VcO8jJ8SKukU43ZxdpB8uKIhvQf-3c79wZCTGu4Y.png

Unemployment falling since 2009
large_nDWE7h1krmfo1bdgvXVC33xy812orMKKYz5-Z6Ev1CU.png

Median Wage Growth up since 2010, but sluggish and growing slower than normal:
large_oeBiJgwb9CYH3mczFFZe8FtTzJNbFS9JGHRvm6MQEEo.png

The troubling things are, the yield curve has now inverted, which usually predicts a recession, and income inequality is getting closer to third-world levels, which predicts economic decline.
The state of the US economy in 11 charts



For the evangelical leaders who embraced Trump's way, it's already happened.

Look at that almost non-existent growth during Obama's years. The only reason everything started going up in 2015 was because everyone knew he was on his way out.
 
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The Barbarian

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Look at that almost non-existent growth during Obama's years.

Let's take a look at that belief...

5d7f744a2e22af10585ae3e6


Looks like you've been played. Obama took an economy in the dumpster and brought it around. Trump hasn't done quite as well, and he did it only at the cost of a huge tax cut for the rich that raised the debt to huge levels. Where Obama began to reduce deficits, Trump had greatly increased them.
5ddd33ccfd9db2267f31a477


The only reason everything started going up in 2015 was because everyone knew he was on his way out.

You were lied to there, also. As you now see, he began turning the economy around almost immediately.
 
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Jermayn

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Nowhere does it say so. That's just your addition to scripture. In Matthew 25, Jesus says that some of the people will be puzzled and ask Him when they did anything for Him. A Christian would know that. So that excuse won't work.



Since "Allah" is the word Arabic-speaking Christians use for God (and did, long before Islam existed), that much is clearly true. Perhaps you don't know that "God" is what Germanic-speaking Christians use in the same manner. But as you learned, Jesus makes all this clear:

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Romans 9:10 "Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Fits precisely into God's message:
James 2:24 Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only?

Let it be God's way, not yours.

I would understand your point of view if James 2:24 said this: Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith. But it doesn't. It says this Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only? And now your saying that any name a person has for God is the same God as in the Bible? There are people that worship Satan. Are you saying that's the same God as in the Bible? Some of those people are also great people by the world's standards. Will they still be saved even though they've built the foundation of their house upon the enemy and no Jesus Christ? Stop trying to twist the Bible to suit your political ideology.

Now, I hope this breakdown of the parable of the wise and foolish builders, found in Matthew 7:24-27 will help open your eyes to the truth that salvation is not obtained by works.

Jerry and Bill are building a house. Jerry finds an area of land with a nice solid foundation made of rock and says "Look Bill, Lets build our house here. This rock won't erode and will hold up our houses in the event a big storm comes. Bill says "Nah Jerry, I found this spot down by the beach. It's got a beautiful view, it's nice and warm, and I'm using on the best materials with the best safety practices while I build it. Jerry goes ahead and builds his house on the solid rock foundation. It wasn't the prettiest house and it didn't really have that great of a view. Not many people wanted to visit Jerry's house. Meanwhile, Bill built a luxurious house down on the white sandy beach with a perfect view of the sunset. He cut no corners in its construction. Everyone loved to visit Bills house. One day a hurricane came blowing in from the sea, but Bill wasn't worried because his house was built strong and sturdy. "This house could withstand 200 mile per hour winds" Bill said. He invited all his family and friends over to ride out the storm. They felt safe. He tried to get Jerry to come over too, knowing his house wasn't built near as strong, but Jerry wouldn't leave his own home. "Poor Jerry" everyone thought, "His house will surely fall in this storm". The winds came and the storm surge rose and beat upon the sides of Bill's house as the water slowly eroded the sand beneath. For all his hard work and all his investment to ensure his house was as strong as possible, Bills house collapsed into the sea when the foundation was gone, and all the people inside were swept away by the sea. Back at Jerry's house, the wind beat on the sides of his house and the storm surge rose and crashed against the rock foundation, and when the storm had cleared, his house was still standing because the rock foundation never eroded away.

Jesus is the rock foundation, the house is the works of Jerry and Bill during their life. Jerry placed his faith in Jesus and built on the rock. Bill placed his faith elsewhere and built upon the sand. Even though Bills works looked better than Jerry's, Bills did all that work on a weak foundation, and his works collapsed for it, while Jerry's stood strong. Telling people they just need to be a "good person" and they'll be saved is attractive and makes everyone feel comfortable, but in the end, if you're not "building" those good works on the rock (Jesus), your foundation is going to wash away.
 
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Jermayn

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Let's take a look at that belief...

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Looks like you've been played. Obama took an economy in the dumpster and brought it around. Trump hasn't done quite as well, and he did it only at the cost of a huge tax cut for the rich that raised the debt to huge levels. Where Obama began to reduce deficits, Trump had greatly increased them.
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You were lied to there, also. As you now see, he began turning the economy around almost immediately.


Even the Washington Post won't give credit to Obama for Trumps booming economy. Even Obama himself acted like getting 3% growth was going to require a "Magic Wand".

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/05/23/what-biden-gets-wrong-about-trump-economy/
 
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The Barbarian

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Even the Washington Post won't give credit to Obama for Trumps booming economy.

Notice that it was booming before Trump every became president. The data clearly shows you were misled.

The difference is that while Obama was reducing the deficit almost every year, Trump has ballooned the debt once again. A tax cut without cutting spending is merely loading up your credit cards, trying to spend yourself rich. At some point,the debt has to be repaid. Trump has enacted a huge tax increase on future taxpayers.

No point in denying it.
 
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The Barbarian

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I would understand your point of view if James 2:24 said this: Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith.

But that's not what I told you. As you now realize, "faith alone" will not save. God says that one is justified by faith and works and not by faith only.

And now your saying that any name a person has for God is the same God as in the Bible?

I'm showing you that "Allah" is the word Arabic-speaking Christians have been using for God, long before there was a Muslim religion. We use "God" in the same way; Abraham would not have recognized "God", although "El" ("Allah" is a cognate of "El") as a title for God.

There are people that worship Satan.

But they don't call him "Allah" or "God"; are you saying that's the same God as in the Bible? Some of those people are also great people by the world's standards. Stop trying to twist the Bible to suit your political ideology.

Accept that Jesus was telling the truth that He will save those who do the the will of the Father. Set pride aside, and just let it be His way.
 
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