Book of Common Prayer editions/versions

Tigger45

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So a quick back story. My wife and I have been investigating a small ACNA congregation but we only have a basic knowledge of the history and usage of the BCP. Hopefully I’m not opening up a can of worms but would appreciate input on the reasoning behind developing new versions. Are there preferences associated with Anglo-Catholic vs the Evangelical side of the spectrum of Anglicanism? How about cradle Anglicans/Episcopalians vs converts?
 
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Julian of Norwich

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So a quick back story. My wife and I have been investigating a small ACNA congregation but we only have a basic knowledge of the history and usage of the BCP. Hopefully I’m not opening up a can of worms but would appreciate input on the reasoning behind developing new versions. Are there preferences associated with Anglo-Catholic vs the Evangelical side of the spectrum of Anglicanism? How about cradle Anglicans/Episcopalians vs converts?

I like the '28 BCP due to it's sentimental value (my early years were under the '28 BCP) and it's traditional language). That said, I do like parts of the "79 BCP as it goes better with my AngloCatholic sensibilities.
 
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Tigger45

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I like the '28 BCP due to it's sentimental value (my early years were under the '28 BCP) and it's traditional language. That said, I do like parts of the "79 BCP as it goes better with my AngloCatholic sensibilities.
Which is the official version of your congregation the ‘28 or the ‘79? Also do you have an example where the ’79 is more favorable to your AngloCatholic sensibilities?
 
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Athanasius377

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When I was attending an Anglican Parish we used the 1928 BCP. It is the successor to the original 1549 BCP largely composed by Thomas Cranmer. Historically, the most used edition of the BCP is the English 1662 and tends to be favored by Evangelicals because of its Reformed theology. The US 1928 BCP does reflect some anglo-catholic ideas and uses the Scottish BCP order of communion (or 1549 BCP order). Our parish was more anglo-catholic leaning so the clergy basically used the Anglican Missal which can be found here. The missal is basically the Tridentine missal adapted from the readings and collects of the BCP. The clergy sad to say were mostly theologically uneducated and married wannabe tridentine catholic priests. I am speaking of one jurisdiction in particular not named the ACNA.

IMO, 1662 typically Low church evangelicals, 1928, even split, 1979, a bit more anglo-catholic. To be fair I don't have much experience with the 1979 bcp or the churches that use it. I am aware that ACNA just published a revision of the BCP for 2019 though I haven't read through it to be able to comment.
 
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Julian of Norwich

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Which is the official version of your congregation the ‘28 or the ‘79? Also do you have an example where the ’79 is more favorable to your AngloCatholic sensibilities?

The Episcopal church I go to at the moment uses the '79 BCP. I spent almost 20 years in the RCC and switching from the Episcopal church with the '79 was seamless. I changed back to the Anglican Church. I thought I'd like the nearby continuing church, but they were even more conservative than I am plus, after the RCC, the '28 BCP they use was way too protestant for me. So I'm going to the Episcopal church and will ignore their interpretation of Scripture. I do wish they used the Anglican Service Book (that's essentially the '79 but in traditional language, from my understanding).
 
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Tigger45

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The Episcopal church I go to at the moment uses the '79 BCP. I spent almost 20 years in the RCC and switching from the Episcopal church with the '79 was seamless. I changed back to the Anglican Church. I thought I'd like the nearby continuing church, but they were even more conservative than I am plus, after the RCC, the '28 BCP they use was way too protestant for me. So I'm going to the Episcopal church and will ignore their interpretation of Scripture. I do wish they used the Anglican Service Book (that's essentially the '79 but in traditional language, from my understanding).
Right, my wife and I would be considered AngloCatholic both in practice and theology but centrists politically. I’m hoping we can find a home in the ACNA but I’m sure political dynamics can swing either way depending upon the particular congregation.
 
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Julian of Norwich

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Right, my wife and I would be considered AngloCatholic both in practice and theology but centrists politically. I’m hoping we can find a home in the ACNA but I’m sure political dynamics can swing either way depending upon the particular congregation.

I'd like to try an ACNA parish, unfortunately, there's none in this area. There is one Anglican parish about 45 min. away that is ACC, however I just can't get myself to get up early enough on a weekend.:oops:
 
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PloverWing

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So a quick back story. My wife and I have been investigating a small ACNA congregation but we only have a basic knowledge of the history and usage of the BCP. Hopefully I’m not opening up a can of worms but would appreciate input on the reasoning behind developing new versions. Are there preferences associated with Anglo-Catholic vs the Evangelical side of the spectrum of Anglicanism? How about cradle Anglicans/Episcopalians vs converts?

One good (but not overly long) summary of the ideas embodied in the 1979 BCP revision appears in The Oxford Guide to the Book of Common Prayer, in the chapter "The Episcopal Church in the U.S.A." Some of the changes that the author notes are:

- Allowing multiple forms for some of the liturgies. For example, the 1979 book has Rite I and Rite II, with prayers A, B, C, and D, for the Eucharist.
- Reshaping some of the forms of the Eucharistic liturgy to reflect more ancient liturgies and to have a particular theologically coherent structure.
- Making the Eucharist more central to worship, with the assumption that it will be the normal service every Sunday morning (rather than Morning Prayer).
- Some use of gender-inclusive language. For example, "For us men and for our salvation" became "For us and for our salvation". Masculine language was still retained for God.
- Use of modern English (rather than Elizabethan English) in most of the rites.

An additional change that stands out to me, but that the Oxford Guide does not mention, is the inclusion of two "Catholic" services -- Compline and the Easter Vigil -- in the 1979 BCP. The Easter Vigil is my favorite service in the church year.

Since you asked about people's backgrounds: I am not a cradle Episcopalian. I came to the Episcopal Church in 1985, after the 1979 BCP was already in use. I never used the 1928 BCP in worship (though I have one on my bookshelf), so its language never had the long-term familiarity for me that it does for cradle Episcopalians of my generation. My sensibilities are a complicated combination of Anglo-Catholic and Evangelical, which I can elaborate on in a separate post if you're interested; briefly, I like lots of "smells and bells" in worship, but I also think that a personal commitment to Jesus is very important. I very much like the 1979 BCP. I bought a copy back when I was still a Baptist, and I was attracted by the beauty of its prayers and liturgy. I have occasionally wondered if I would have become Episcopalian if the 1928 BCP had still been in use when I was exploring churches, but that's impossible to answer; possibly, I might have ended up Lutheran instead.
 
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Albion

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Right, my wife and I would be considered AngloCatholic both in practice and theology but centrists politically. I’m hoping we can find a home in the ACNA but I’m sure political dynamics can swing either way depending upon the particular congregation.
...and the ACNA itself, which has never decided what it wants to be.
 
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Tigger45

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...and the ACNA itself, which has never decided what it wants to be.
Yeah I get that but like you know my other opinion is just too liberal. So far I’ve attended several services and listened to just about every sermon they have uploaded to their website and haven’t heard anything too extreme either way politically speaking although they are pro-life which works for me.
 
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Albion

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Yeah I get that but like you know my other opinion is just too liberal.
Yes, I did realize.

So far I’ve attended several services and listened to just about every sermon they have uploaded to their website and haven’t heard anything too extreme either way politically speaking although they are pro-life which works for me.
 
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Athanasius377

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I have occasionally wondered if I would have become Episcopalian if the 1928 BCP had still been in use when I was exploring churches, but that's impossible to answer; possibly, I might have ended up Lutheran instead.
This is exactly what happened to me. Great observation.
 
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Paidiske

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A bit of my own history, for context:

- I started attending church in the late 90s (in my late teens), well after the Anglican Church in Australia had adopted new liturgies. Although I have been to services from the old (1662) book, it has never been my regular worship, and frankly, nor would I want it to be. In particular I consider the wedding and funeral services to be vastly improved in the newer books.

Some observations:

- We are now in a world where many, many Anglicans do not speak English, and do not worship in English. In my own diocese, we have congregations worshipping in Mandarin, Cantonese, Malayalam, Tamil, Arabic, Farsi, Dinka, Karen, Indonesian, Maori... that's off the top of my head, there would be others. So given that diversity, the idea that all Anglicans would say exactly the same words in prayer seems to me to belong to another, much more colonial era.

- Also, we see the need for worship to be contextualised to local context and culture. Frankly, I think the Australian church needs to do more of that, rather than being so heavily influenced by English or American sources.

My own view is that diversity in liturgy represents the God-given rich variety of our communion, and that we ought to embrace and celebrate it; not trying to tie ourselves to a particular moment in history which does not speak well to our current context. Cranmer's work was beautiful, but for many people now it is not at all accessible.
 
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Tigger45

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One good (but not overly long) summary of the ideas embodied in the 1979 BCP revision appears in The Oxford Guide to the Book of Common Prayer, in the chapter "The Episcopal Church in the U.S.A." Some of the changes that the author notes are:

- Allowing multiple forms for some of the liturgies. For example, the 1979 book has Rite I and Rite II, with prayers A, B, C, and D, for the Eucharist.
- Reshaping some of the forms of the Eucharistic liturgy to reflect more ancient liturgies and to have a particular theologically coherent structure.
- Making the Eucharist more central to worship, with the assumption that it will be the normal service every Sunday morning (rather than Morning Prayer).
- Some use of gender-inclusive language. For example, "For us men and for our salvation" became "For us and for our salvation". Masculine language was still retained for God.
- Use of modern English (rather than Elizabethan English) in most of the rites.

An additional change that stands out to me, but that the Oxford Guide does not mention, is the inclusion of two "Catholic" services -- Compline and the Easter Vigil -- in the 1979 BCP. The Easter Vigil is my favorite service in the church year.

Since you asked about people's backgrounds: I am not a cradle Episcopalian. I came to the Episcopal Church in 1985, after the 1979 BCP was already in use. I never used the 1928 BCP in worship (though I have one on my bookshelf), so its language never had the long-term familiarity for me that it does for cradle Episcopalians of my generation. My sensibilities are a complicated combination of Anglo-Catholic and Evangelical, which I can elaborate on in a separate post if you’re interested; briefly, I like lots of "smells and bells" in worship, but I also think that a personal commitment to Jesus is very important. I very much like the 1979 BCP. I bought a copy back when I was still a Baptist, and I was attracted by the beauty of its prayers and liturgy. I have occasionally wondered if I would have become Episcopalian if the 1928 BCP had still been in use when I was exploring churches, but that's impossible to answer; possibly, I might have ended up Lutheran instead.
Yes your personal theological preferences would be helpful related to how they line up with the BCP choices. :oldthumbsup:
 
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Tigger45

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This is exactly what happened to me. Great observation.
Interesting if I understand you correctly. What was it about the BCP ‘28 that didn’t meet your religious preferences?
 
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Athanasius377

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Interesting if I understand you correctly. What was it about the BCP ‘28 that didn’t meet your religious preferences?
It wasn’t that at all. I still have my worn copy of the BCP/bible combo on my nightstand. I was teaching catechism and adult Sunday school when I realized scripture taught doctrine that was opposed to the Tridentine Catholicism we were being taught. We were doing a romp through the Epistles and reading the Fathers that came to this realization. So I did what what any good Anglican would do and sought the help of my priest. It was then I also realized he was a fraud. The bishop seemed to know this but did nothing. So I left. I went to a Reformed Episcopal Church parish. It was there I realized I believed scripture taught things like the True Presence in the elements of communion and baptismal regeneration. So I could not stay there. So I was having lunch with a former Anglican priest who suggested I read the Augsburg confession. Which I did. I decided that I had had to find a church that could affirm this confession. That was an LCMS parish.

To be clear, I think Anglicanism and Lutheranism are very close. I do not disparage the Anglican Church. I learned so much from reading the Anglican divines like Ridley and Hooker. Truth is if there wasn’t an LCMS parish close by I would have found an ACNA parish. So it wasn’t the 1928 BCP that was the problem. It was a lack of adherence there of.
 
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PloverWing

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Yes your personal theological preferences would be helpful related to how they line up with the BCP choices. :oldthumbsup:

Pardon the length, but I don't fit into boxes very easily. :)

Some thoughts on the "Catholic" side:

I view the apostolic succession in the Anglican churches as every bit as legitimate as that in Catholic and Orthodox churches -- though I think that's uncontroversial among Anglicans.

The Incarnation is central to my spirituality. The sacraments are similarly important to me in worship. God often touches us through the physical world. This includes but is not limited to the seven official sacraments.

The Eucharist is one of the most important ways that God becomes present to us. It should be a part of most of our gatherings for worship as Christians -- certainly every Sunday, barring unusual circumstances, but in many of our other gatherings as well.

I'm uncomfortable with some of the more "Protestant" sections of the 39 Articles, and I don't think I could affirm them as written. I ask the saints for their prayers on occasion, I pray for my loved ones who have died, and I think there may well be something like Purgatory in the afterlife.

I like a lot of the high-church elements of worship: Bowing, kneeling, vestments, incense, chanting, and so on. These actions of my body and senses offer worship in ways that mere words cannot.

Some thoughts on the "Evangelical" side:

Like the Evangelicals, I think it's important for a person to make their own deliberate commitment to follow Jesus and to accept the forgiveness that comes through the work of Christ. I don't want to limit God here -- I think that God's grace can come to all people, even those who don't believe or understand -- but for Christians, following the normal path of the Christian life, it's important to choose for one's self to be Christian, and not just follow along automatically with what the family and community are doing.

Like the Evangelicals, the Bible is very important to me. I don't see the Bible as inerrant (here, I part ways with the Evangelicals), but it has to be studied and wrestled with. Christians should read, study, and know the Bible thoroughly.

An additional personal quirk:

I have a preference for believer's baptism, a holdover from my Baptist days. This puts me at odds with common Anglican practice, though it puts me in agreement with baptism as the rite of full membership in the church. (I understand the church's reasons for infant baptism, and I do welcome baptized infants as full members of the church.)

How does this relate to the 1979 BCP?

Not everything here relates to the 1979 revision. The Episcopal Church has always maintained apostolic succession; that's not new. The Episcopal Church has always read large passages of Scripture in each Sunday service, whether Eucharist or Morning Prayer; that's not new either.

I do appreciate that elements of Catholic and pre-Schism liturgy were incorporated into the new Prayer Book. One of the reasons I came to the Episcopal Church was to be a part of a church that was deeply rooted in history, and our history goes back much further than the English Reformation.

I appreciate that the 39 Articles were placed in an appendix of Historical Documents in the back of the book. They are important as history, but I would not want to see them as binding on us, because of the issues noted above.

Some additional points about the 1979 BCP:

Liturgy in the vernacular was an important insight of the Reformers. Revision of the liturgy into 20th-century English was good and important. The Oxford Guide article mentioned that this was considered especially important in the rites that involve vows (baptism, marriage, confirmation, and ordination). "This is my solemn vow" sends shivers down my spine in a way that "Thereto I plight thee my troth" does not. The 1979 BCP marriage vow has the immense weight of a sacred, sacramental undertaking, exactly because it is written in well-chosen powerful contemporary wording.

Inclusive language means a great deal to me as a woman in the church. I could wish the 1979 authors had gone even a little farther here, but they did well for 1979.

There's a little more grace in the 1979 book. Some places in the 1928 liturgy feel to me like we're grovelling in a self-conscious and artificial way; I noticed it when our parish used Rite I during Lent last year. In the 1979 liturgy, we confess, are absolved, and then having been forgiven we move forward to commune with God. That feels more appropriate to me, and more genuine.

Again, apologies for the length, but these are some of my thoughts about the "new" BCP and how it fits with my own spirituality.
 
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Tigger45

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Pardon the length, but I don't fit into boxes very easily. :)

Some thoughts on the "Catholic" side:

I view the apostolic succession in the Anglican churches as every bit as legitimate as that in Catholic and Orthodox churches -- though I think that's uncontroversial among Anglicans.

The Incarnation is central to my spirituality. The sacraments are similarly important to me in worship. God often touches us through the physical world. This includes but is not limited to the seven official sacraments.

The Eucharist is one of the most important ways that God becomes present to us. It should be a part of most of our gatherings for worship as Christians -- certainly every Sunday, barring unusual circumstances, but in many of our other gatherings as well.

I'm uncomfortable with some of the more "Protestant" sections of the 39 Articles, and I don't think I could affirm them as written. I ask the saints for their prayers on occasion, I pray for my loved ones who have died, and I think there may well be something like Purgatory in the afterlife.

I like a lot of the high-church elements of worship: Bowing, kneeling, vestments, incense, chanting, and so on. These actions of my body and senses offer worship in ways that mere words cannot.

Some thoughts on the "Evangelical" side:

Like the Evangelicals, I think it's important for a person to make their own deliberate commitment to follow Jesus and to accept the forgiveness that comes through the work of Christ. I don't want to limit God here -- I think that God's grace can come to all people, even those who don't believe or understand -- but for Christians, following the normal path of the Christian life, it's important to choose for one's self to be Christian, and not just follow along automatically with what the family and community are doing.

Like the Evangelicals, the Bible is very important to me. I don't see the Bible as inerrant (here, I part ways with the Evangelicals), but it has to be studied and wrestled with. Christians should read, study, and know the Bible thoroughly.

An additional personal quirk:

I have a preference for believer's baptism, a holdover from my Baptist days. This puts me at odds with common Anglican practice, though it puts me in agreement with baptism as the rite of full membership in the church. (I understand the church's reasons for infant baptism, and I do welcome baptized infants as full members of the church.)

How does this relate to the 1979 BCP?

Not everything here relates to the 1979 revision. The Episcopal Church has always maintained apostolic succession; that's not new. The Episcopal Church has always read large passages of Scripture in each Sunday service, whether Eucharist or Morning Prayer; that's not new either.

I do appreciate that elements of Catholic and pre-Schism liturgy were incorporated into the new Prayer Book. One of the reasons I came to the Episcopal Church was to be a part of a church that was deeply rooted in history, and our history goes back much further than the English Reformation.

I appreciate that the 39 Articles were placed in an appendix of Historical Documents in the back of the book. They are important as history, but I would not want to see them as binding on us, because of the issues noted above.

Some additional points about the 1979 BCP:

Liturgy in the vernacular was an important insight of the Reformers. Revision of the liturgy into 20th-century English was good and important. The Oxford Guide article mentioned that this was considered especially important in the rites that involve vows (baptism, marriage, confirmation, and ordination). "This is my solemn vow" sends shivers down my spine in a way that "Thereto I plight thee my troth" does not. The 1979 BCP marriage vow has the immense weight of a sacred, sacramental undertaking, exactly because it is written in well-chosen powerful contemporary wording.

Inclusive language means a great deal to me as a woman in the church. I could wish the 1979 authors had gone even a little farther here, but they did well for 1979.

There's a little more grace in the 1979 book. Some places in the 1928 liturgy feel to me like we're grovelling in a self-conscious and artificial way; I noticed it when our parish used Rite I during Lent last year. In the 1979 liturgy, we confess, are absolved, and then having been forgiven we move forward to commune with God. That feels more appropriate to me, and more genuine.

Again, apologies for the length, but these are some of my thoughts about the "new" BCP and how it fits with my own spirituality.
Thank you so much you’ve been very helpful :oldthumbsup:
 
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Tigger45

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...and the ACNA itself, which has never decided what it wants to be.
I know the ACNA's stance on women's ordination is convoluted, is there anything else that is worth being mindful of?
 
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