Head Coverings and Proper Church Attire

[ArmyMatt]

Some of the Arabs in my parish say this same thing.

makes sense

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I don’t think most Orthodox faithful see a woman wearing a head covering as a lustful struggle nor do I think having female altar boys is a wonderful idea. This post sounds a bit too “woke” for my taste.

You know - my priest's dad was also a priest and his mom hung out in circles with St. John of Kronstadt. He says that his mother claimed head covering was not a thing that was emphasized or required in Russia at that time, and she even saw female acolytes. So trying to get parishes to do it "right" seems more than a little silly. This isn't an issue that a parishioner (especially a male one) needs to worry about. If you're struggling with lust to such a degree that seeing a woman's hair during worship is causing you to stumble, you should definitely bring that up with your priest.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

This whole “scarves make us look Muslim” stuff is lame. I guess dimes on our temples, kneeling prayers, beards, and chanting make us sound Muslim, too.

 

[~Anastasia~]

This whole “scarves make us look Muslim” stuff is lame. I guess dimes on our temples, kneeling prayers, beards, and chanting make us sound Muslim, too.

My dear brother ...

Just think a moment though. I'm a woman leaving my house alone, traveling across two cities to get to Church, in a small town where - let's just say the established "good ole boys" don't look favorably on anyone different, and don't feel very constrained by the sensibilities of most of the US. That's great maybe if you're fed up with political correctness. But to be seen (potentially) as a Muslim ... well seriously it's a bit intimidating at times. As to people who might see me in my own neighborhood, it doesn't help that my husband is obviously not "white American".

Mind you - I still cover my head to go to Church. It doesn't stop me. But it's a valid concern, ime.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

You drive in a head scarf across town? All the folks at my parish don’t put the scarf on until they’re walking to the doors of the church?

My dear brother ...

Just think a moment though. I'm a woman leaving my house alone, traveling across two cities to get to Church, in a small town where - let's just say the established "good ole boys" don't look favorably on anyone different, and don't feel very constrained by the sensibilities of most of the US. That's great maybe if you're fed up with political correctness. But to be seen (potentially) as a Muslim ... well seriously it's a bit intimidating at times. As to people who might see me in my own neighborhood, it doesn't help that my husband is obviously not "white American".

Mind you - I still cover my head to go to Church. It doesn't stop me. But it's a valid concern, ime.

 

[ArmyMatt]

This whole “scarves make us look Muslim” stuff is lame. I guess dimes on our temples, kneeling prayers, beards, and chanting make us sound Muslim, too.

yep, who do you think Islam stole that from?

 

[AMM]

You drive in a head scarf across town? All the folks at my parish don’t put the scarf on until they’re walking to the doors of the church?

It is the more traditional orthodox practice for women to always veil, right? Or historically was it only in church? I’ve never really thought to ask about that specific detail, but I assumed it was the former (women almost always veiled, even outside church)

 

[~Anastasia~]

You drive in a head scarf across town? All the folks at my parish don’t put the scarf on until they’re walking to the doors of the church?

I prefer scarves I can wear around my neck, and just pull them up as I go into Church. But it depends on the kind of scarf. Some have to be done before I leave home.

A square kerchief type can be tied quickly. I love infinity scarves. But most of mine are long rectangles and anything that will make them stay in place needs to be done at home.

It is the more traditional orthodox practice for women to always veil, right? Or historically was it only in church? I’ve never really thought to ask about that specific detail, but I assumed it was the former (women almost always veiled, even outside church)

I don't know specifically about Orthodoxy, but it's a traditional practice since before Christ to cover all the time. Many married Jewish women do (though some cover their real hair with wigs so you might not be able to tell).

I know a few Orthodox women who cover full time.

 

[Bessie]

I don’t think most Orthodox faithful see a woman wearing a head covering as a lustful struggle nor do I think having female altar boys is a wonderful idea. This post sounds a bit too “woke” for my taste.

I am not suggesting that we should have female altar boys (and my parish absolutely doesn't). My point is that what happened in Russia in the past, or what happens there now, is not the standard by which we can determine what the "right" way to do things is. And yeah, when covering your hair is framed as being about modesty then lust is part of the picture.

Incidentally, 99% of the time I do cover my hair. Our matushka doesn't, and neither do most of the women in my parish. This is a personal decision unless your priest says otherwise.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

“Infinity scarves!?” Sounds like so etching Hulk, Iron Man, Cap, and the gang would be trying to retrieve to save mankind!

I prefer scarves I can wear around my neck, and just pull them up as I go into Church. But it depends on the kind of scarf. Some have to be done before I leave home.

A square kerchief type can be tied quickly. I love infinity scarves. But most of mine are long rectangles and anything that will make them stay in place needs to be done at home.



I don't know specifically about Orthodoxy, but it's a traditional practice since before Christ to cover all the time. Many married Jewish women do (though some cover their real hair with wigs so you might not be able to tell).

I know a few Orthodox women who cover full time.

 

[rusmeister]

I am not suggesting that we should have female altar boys (and my parish absolutely doesn't). My point is that what happened in Russia in the past, or what happens there now, is not the standard by which we can determine what the "right" way to do things is. And yeah, when covering your hair is framed as being about modesty then lust is part of the picture.

Incidentally, 99% of the time I do cover my hair. Our matushka doesn't, and neither do most of the women in my parish. This is a personal decision unless your priest says otherwise.

I can’t have a lot of sympathy for this perspective, as it doesn’t seem to take what I have said into consideration. Especially the part about any tradition that affirms the distinctiveness of the sexes in a world gone mad on denying those distinctions.

 

[~Anastasia~]

“Infinity scarves!?” Sounds like so etching Hulk, Iron Man, Cap, and the gang would be trying to retrieve to save mankind!

LOL!!!

No, they are just joined at the ends to form a loop. If they are long enough, it can be doubled and worn around the neck circled twice. Then going into Church, I only take one loop and pull it over my head to cover, and the other one stays around my neck to hold it (somewhat) in place.

There's something of a minor science to headcoverings. The simple kerchiefs look silly tied on me because I have long thick hair and may end up distracting people. But I don't like to fuss with the complicated wraps to keep everything in place. So yes, infinity scarves are my favorite so far.

I'm a little envious of the Ethiopian women who have a nice cover over their head and shoulders that never seems to slip and covers all their hair. I should ask them for help.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Ok ok....I’ll call the Avengers and cancel the emergency!

LOL!!!

No, they are just joined at the ends to form a loop. If they are long enough, it can be doubled and worn around the neck circled twice. Then going into Church, I only take one loop and pull it over my head to cover, and the other one stays around my neck to hold it (somewhat) in place.

There's something of a minor science to headcoverings. The simple kerchiefs look silly tied on me because I have long thick hair and may end up distracting people. But I don't like to fuss with the complicated wraps to keep everything in place. So yes, infinity scarves are my favorite so far.

I'm a little envious of the Ethiopian women who have a nice cover over their head and shoulders that never seems to slip and covers all their hair. I should ask them for help.