James Disproves Free Will

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JacksBratt

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Then you seem to miss the whole point of my post. My fault, I hope.

The believer loves God. Avoiding damnation is a minor point, more of a reminder or warning, for the believer. Our reaction to our own sin is not so much fear, as sorrow.
I agree... Their logic is similar to "Society is evil because it has prisons"

God doesn't want us to end up in hell.
We are all, by our own choice, sinners and deserving of hell.
God, so much, didn't want that that He sent His son to pay the price so that we don't go to hell.

So, YA.... an evil God? Hardly.

The only thing keeping us from avoiding hell...... our pride and not choosing to be saved.

God doesn't want robotic love... He loved us.. but... He wants US to Choose Him.

Without free will, He could just make us all love Him....

Nobody wants love from someone unless it is a legitimate honest love. You cannot MAKE someone love you.. and ... if you could... it would be worthless.
 
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Dave L

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I do not see any of this... no connection at all to these equations.... and free will.

You just keep saying "equals this" and "equals that"... but none have anything to do with the free will we have our entire lives.
human free will cannot choose the right Christ. It is blind to him. It only chooses idols it thinks is Christ. Sin cannot choose the righteousness it hates.

Only after being born again having a saved will, can we see and follow Christ in truth.
 
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Dave L

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Yep, and free will on both sides of the battle.

Again, you are confusing "Saved by works" with "free will" and confusing "Slave to sin" with "free will" to turn from it.

Without "Free will" we would not be able to make the choice to turn from our sin....We would also not be able to make the choice to follow the nudgings of the Holy Spirit in any work for God that is being asked of us..

A sinner can choose to turn from sin or reject Christ and remain in sin.

A saved person has chosen to submit to Christ and accept the free gift of salvation.

A missionary can choose to go into the mission field that God has willed and called them to.... or.... do what they want.... God will bring glory to both but more glory would be won for God if they followed His will for their ministry.


Free will follows us from sinner to saved to death.
What slave can choose his master?
 
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Dave L

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davel,

1. You are missing the point.
First, I never said we could tame the tongue all the time.
I said we can overcome and tame the tongue with the power of God.
However, we can choose freely not to rely on God and not be able to tame our tongue in different situations.

2. By nature the tongue cannot be tamed.
By nature sinners don’t tame the tongue but they can tame it at times by the power of a freewill choice.
Murders are not good in holding up the value of a life. But it doesn’t mean they can’t do anything good.

3. Since we can have self control which is a fruit of the Spirit and we can overcome by the power of God the tongue can be tamed when we make a freewill choice to trust and obey God.
God is not going to force you to choose to trust him or not, otherwise it is not true love, for his program with free will agents has to be able to choose freely for we are not robots, but creative beings who God gavels brains to be able to understand intelligence information and the power of free will choice. Jerry Kelso
Jerry Kelso
Is James telling the truth or not?
 
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Dave L

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Can I assume that you take the word "tame" to mean "control completely"?

If that's the case, then I doubt that you've tamed your dog, nevermind your tongue. If that isn't the case then the passage you cite does not prove your case. In fact, it would tacitly argue against it.

Can I expect a response to my previous post or are most posts just sort of left to stand on there own on this site?
If I miss a post it's because I'm swamped. If it is important please ask again.
 
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Dave L

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There must be a reason why you can't answer a simple question, and are trying to change the subject.

So then you admit that "free will = you trust in yourself to operate the machinery, not Christ" is something that isn't in the Bible, that you made it up.

So: did Adam and Eve have free-will before the fall? Did they have the ability to choose either good or evil, without experiencing any compulsion towards either or limitation on being able to make the choice?
The church condemned free will as heresy....just sayin'
 
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Mountainmanbob

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What slave can choose his master?

I think you missed it that time?
(since the beginning of time)
Many slaves have been freed
and chose to stay and serve.
M-Bob
 
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Dave L

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I think you missed it that time?
(since the beginning of time)
Many slaves have been freed
and chose to stay and serve.
M-Bob
“In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.” 2 Timothy 2:25–26 (KJV 1900)
 
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chilehed

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The church condemned free will as heresy....just sayin'
There must be a reason why you can't answer a simple question, and are trying to change the subject.

So then you admit that "free will = you trust in yourself to operate the machinery, not Christ" is something that isn't in the Bible, that you made it up.

So: did Adam and Eve have free-will before the fall? Did they have the ability to choose either good or evil, without experiencing any compulsion towards either or limitation on being able to make the choice?
 
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Dave L

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There must be a reason why you can't answer a simple question, and are trying to change the subject.

So then you admit that "free will = you trust in yourself to operate the machinery, not Christ" is something that isn't in the Bible, that you made it up.

So: did Adam and Eve have free-will before the fall? Did they have the ability to choose either good or evil, without experiencing any compulsion towards either or limitation on being able to make the choice?
It is throughout the bible. The OT law is based on free will and responsibility as with all law. But the Gospel in not law. Those accustomed to legalistic thinking turn it into law and see grace as works. But Law cannot save.
 
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chilehed

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It is throughout the bible.
"Free will = you trust in yourself to operate the machinery, not Christ" is nowhere in the Bible. If it was, you could quote the passage where it's found. You've made the entire thing up out of your own head, just as you have the nonsense about the Church condemning free will as a heresy.

You're the only person left who thinks that you know what you're talking about, and I see no reason to think that you're willing to consider even the remote possibility that you're wrong. My job here is done.
 
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Dave L

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"Free will = you trust in yourself to operate the machinery, not Christ" is nowhere in the Bible. If it was, you could quote the passage where it's found. You've made the entire thing up out of your own head, just as you have the nonsense about the Church condemning free will as a heresy.

You're the only person left who thinks that you know what you're talking about, and I see no reason to think that you're willing to consider even the remote possibility that you're wrong. My job here is done.
Did Lazarus operate his will (machinery) when dead? Neither can you unless resurrected into the new birth.
 
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JacksBratt

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human free will cannot choose the right Christ. It is blind to him. It only chooses idols it thinks is Christ. Sin cannot choose the righteousness it hates.

Only after being born again having a saved will, can we see and follow Christ in truth.
Ya, I totally disagree. What is the "right" Christ or "wrong" Christ?

We see the wonders of this world and see the magnificence of His Glory in this world. We have the morals and knowledge of what is righteous written on our hearts..... We are without excuse.

Then, if we hear the gospel... we are made well aware of what Christ has done in order that we may choose Him.

Nobody has an excuse, when they face their creator, when we leave this world, for not understanding and making a choices that we have made.

Every single human being that has the mental capacity to be held responsible for their decisions... will be held to the consequences of the choices they made with their free will.
 
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JacksBratt

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What slave can choose his master?
One that has the choice.... Which we do...

Like Dylan said... You gotta serve somebody... It may be the devil or it may be the Lord.. but you gotta serve somebody...
 
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Dave L

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Ya, I totally disagree. What is the "right" Christ or "wrong" Christ?

We see the wonders of this world and see the magnificence of His Glory in this world. We have the morals and knowledge of what is righteous written on our hearts..... We are without excuse.

Then, if we hear the gospel... we are made well aware of what Christ has done in order that we may choose Him.

Nobody has an excuse, when they face their creator, when we leave this world, for not understanding and making a choices that we have made.

Every single human being that has the mental capacity to be held responsible for their decisions... will be held to the consequences of the choices they made with their free will.
He chooses you, you don't choose him. If you believe count yourself lucky, most cannot.
 
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Dave L

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One that has the choice.... Which we do...

Like Dylan said... You gotta serve somebody... It may be the devil or it may be the Lord.. but you gotta serve somebody...
That was a great album..........
 
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jerry kelso

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Is James telling the truth or not?

davel,

James is telling the truth if you understand his context.
Your hermeneutical perception seems to be plain statement without context and whatever appears to look like.
It is not cut and dry like you make it out to be.

2. James tells the truth in context that man cannot tame the tongue.
God said man can overcome with him all things so is God lying? Jerry Kelso
 
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