Regeneration and Faith

[Jonaitis]

Does regeneration precede faith, or does faith precede regeneration?

My position is that they occur together spontaneously, yet if you were to find an order it would be first regeneration then faith. I understand the moment of our conversion as the quickening of the soul, by the sole power of the Holy Spirit, to faith and repentance in Christ under the faithful preaching of the gospel (1 Pet. 1:23; John 1:13; 6:44; etc). A true faith must be brought forth by the same power that transforms us, while our Lord describes the man with a temporal faith as one who had the good word sown in their rocky soil-like heart, who immediately sprang up, because the ground was shallow, and withered away, because it did not have root (Matt. 13:5-6). God must create a "new heart" in you for you to ever want to come to him in evangelical obedience (Ezek. 36:25-27).

If you have a different definition for regeneration, such as that it is the same as the permanent indwelling of the Holy Spirit, provide your references and exegesis.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Well, faith is a gift from the Father in heaven.

Regeneration is something only He does.

Man cannot accomplish either apart from the Father, nor can man do either even with help.

The Father must grant faith, and also He is the One to accomplish regeneration of a man;

perhaps analogous to the circumcision of heart, not accomplished by human hands ?

 

[Jonaitis]

Well, faith is a gift from the Father in heaven.

Regeneration is something only He does.

Man cannot accomplish either apart from the Father, nor can man do either even with help.

The Father must grant faith, and also He is the One to accomplish regeneration of a man;

perhaps analogous to the circumcision of heart, not accomplished by human hands ?

Are you able, then, to be regenerate without faith or have faith without regeneracy?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Are you able, then, to be regenerate without faith or have faith without regeneracy?

Since both are God's Doing,
it is up to Him, isn't it?

 

[Jonaitis]

Since both are God's Doing,
it is up to Him, isn't it?

It is.

 

[redleghunter]

Does regeneration precede faith, or does faith precede regeneration?

My position is that they occur together spontaneously, yet if you were to find an order it would be first regeneration then faith. I understand the moment of our conversion as the quickening of the soul, by the sole power of the Holy Spirit, to faith and repentance in Christ under the faithful preaching of the gospel (1 Pet. 1:23; John 1:13; 6:44; etc). A true faith must be brought forth by the same power that transforms us, while our Lord describes the man with a temporal faith as one who had the good word sown in their rocky soil-like heart, who immediately sprang up, because the ground was shallow, and withered away, because it did not have root (Matt. 13:5-6). God must create a "new heart" in you for you to ever want to come to him in evangelical obedience (Ezek. 36:25-27).

If you have a different definition for regeneration, such as that it is the same as the permanent indwelling of the Holy Spirit, provide your references and exegesis.

Yes the difference between a logical order and what we would consider the temporal order.

 

[Daniel C]

How about:

Hearing the Gospel
Having faith
Regeneration

 

[jahel]

Considering when the seed is sown it would seem that condition of the soil comes first. Only one quarter of the land was furrowed ground, good for producing a harvest. All received the seed, which is incorruptible. But the condition of hardheartedness etc prevented growth. Perhaps it’s only those who have faith that have the power to continue.
To be regenerated means to have the light within ( human spirit ) come alive again.
That’s like Jesus breathing on the disciples to receive the Holy Spirit for understanding. The understanding can only be from the Holy Spirit and those who are unregenerate have no understanding. That’s just a normal Christian life that everyone in the world is justified to receive. How they receive it depends on how they keep the word-seed. Whether they let the cares of the world/ drought etc carry them back to Egypt type of thing.
Sanctification proceeds or doesn’t, from there.

 

[Jonaitis]

How about:

Hearing the Gospel
Having faith
Regeneration

Why do you say that?

 

[Jonaitis]

Considering when the seed is sown it would seem that condition of the soil comes first. Only one quarter of the land was furrowed ground, good for producing a harvest. All received the seed, which is incorruptible. But the condition of hardheartedness etc prevented growth. Perhaps it’s only those who have faith that have the power to continue.
To be regenerated means to have the light within ( human spirit ) come alive again.
That’s like Jesus breathing on the disciples to receive the Holy Spirit for understanding. The understanding can only be from the Holy Spirit and those who are unregenerate have no understanding. That’s just a normal Christian life that everyone in the world is justified to receive. How they receive it depends on how they keep the word-seed. Whether they let the cares of the world/ drought etc carry them back to Egypt type of thing.
Sanctification proceeds or doesn’t, from there.

If the condition of the soil matters when the sowers sows, wouldn't the condition of a man's soul matter when the word is preached? How can you choose to "come alive" by your own faith if you spiritually dead?

 

[jahel]

If the condition of the soil matters when the sowers sows, wouldn't the condition of a man's soul matter when the word is preached? How can you choose to "come alive" by your own faith if you spiritually dead?

Christ’s messages were not just confined to the synagogue where they were not in need of a physician. Only the disciples of His were breathed upon. Maybe He was wasting His breath on the others. Suppose I’ll vote “IDN"

 

[Daniel C]

Why do you say that?

Because like Reformed I believe God is needed to save a person but he works through his word:

Romans 10:17
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

I don't think a person can just pick up a Bible and read it and be saved,an already saved person needs to evangelize the scripture and the spirit of God works through the saved preacher/evangelist.So we hear the Gospel and then some believe. When they believe they are born again.

Of course the main question is what determines who believes and who doesn't? A question far beyond me!

 

[The Liturgist]

Are you able, then, to be regenerate without faith or have faith without regeneracy?

I think not. Grace enables faith which leads to baptismal regeneration and the sanctification of the baptized, through grace conveyed sacramentally in the Eucharist and more generally through the Holy Spirit.

 

[98cwitr]

Does regeneration precede faith, or does faith precede regeneration?

My position is that they occur together spontaneously, yet if you were to find an order it would be first regeneration then faith. I understand the moment of our conversion as the quickening of the soul, by the sole power of the Holy Spirit, to faith and repentance in Christ under the faithful preaching of the gospel (1 Pet. 1:23; John 1:13; 6:44; etc). A true faith must be brought forth by the same power that transforms us, while our Lord describes the man with a temporal faith as one who had the good word sown in their rocky soil-like heart, who immediately sprang up, because the ground was shallow, and withered away, because it did not have root (Matt. 13:5-6). God must create a "new heart" in you for you to ever want to come to him in evangelical obedience (Ezek. 36:25-27).

If you have a different definition for regeneration, such as that it is the same as the permanent indwelling of the Holy Spirit, provide your references and exegesis.

As two plants grow together, their roots entangle and their branches intertwine. So I believe it is with regeneration and faith, so that when it is finished, the two appear to simply be a single tree.

I believe all of this, biblically, is covered in Ezekiel 36 and reiterated in Jeremiah 31 though.

 

[Knee V]

I say the point is moot.

Regeneration or rebirth is intimately linked with baptism in the New Testsment. Whatever regeneration *is*, it occurs at baptism, and I would say that the Reformed read far too much into that word and over-define it.

 

[ViaCrucis]

It doesn't really make sense to speak of either faith or regeneration preceding the other. When we were baptized we were regenerated (John 3:5, Titus 3:5), and it is through God's Means of Grace that we receive faith. As St. Paul says in Romans 10:17, "Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ". It is impossible to separate faith and baptism, it is impossible to separate faith and regeneration; it is God's work upon us and in us which accomplishes and appropriates these things for us, so that, by His grace we are saved.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[BobRyan]

Does regeneration precede faith, or does faith precede regeneration?

"Saved through faith" - Eph 2.
Not "faith through being saved"
Rom 10 "believes RESULTING in salvation"

God does not "make you be a born again Christian then later you wake up and having found yourself to already be a born again Christian - decide to be a Christian"