Be Prepared, The Coming Years will be Filled With Strife

Euodius

Are you kitten me right meow?
Supporter
Nov 29, 2019
426
341
Stafford
✟49,334.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
In Relationship
... Patriarch Athenagoras, a high ranking Mason, being installed on behest of NATO, with Harry Truman flying him out to be Patriarch...

Just found this today: Greek Archbishop to proto-CIA: "Your directions will be executed faithfully." - Orthodox History


“I have three Bishops, three hundred priests and a large and far flung organization. Every one under my order is under yours. You may command them for any service you require. There will be no questions asked and your directions will be executed faithfully. Please tell Mr. Burns for me that this is so.” -Archbishop Athenagoras (according to OSS agent Ulius L. Amoss)
AthenagorasTruman.jpg
 
Upvote 0

buzuxi02

Veteran
May 14, 2006
8,608
2,513
New York
✟212,454.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
Upvote 0

Euodius

Are you kitten me right meow?
Supporter
Nov 29, 2019
426
341
Stafford
✟49,334.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
In Relationship
I gotta ask only because I have not seen anything, but is there any actual hard evidence that Patriarch Athenagoras was a Mason?

The French book, "The Sons of Light" lists him on p. 313. He never denied the allegations.

According to this it was common knowledge;
Freemasonry in American Orthodox history - Orthodox History

The Grand Lodge of Greece lists him as a distinguished Greek Mason;
Αθηναγόρας | Η Μεγάλη Στοά της Ελλάδος

Demetrios is also thought to have been a Mason, and apparently made it to the cover of a magazine...
Patriarch Demetrios on Masonic magazine.jpg
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

ArmyMatt

Regular Member
Supporter
Jan 26, 2007
41,469
20,025
41
Earth
✟1,455,676.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Upvote 0

ArmyMatt

Regular Member
Supporter
Jan 26, 2007
41,469
20,025
41
Earth
✟1,455,676.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
The French book, "The Sons of Light" lists him on p. 313. He never denied the allegations.

According to this it was common knowledge;
Freemasonry in American Orthodox history - Orthodox History

The Grand Lodge of Greece lists him as a distinguished Greek Mason;
Αθηναγόρας | Η Μεγάλη Στοά της Ελλάδος

Demetrios is also thought to have been a Mason, and apparently made it to the cover of a magazine...
View attachment 267877

the first article admits there is no hard evidence that proves he was one. and I can't read the Greek article.
 
Upvote 0

buzuxi02

Veteran
May 14, 2006
8,608
2,513
New York
✟212,454.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
something more than a Roman Catholic site which just says that he is. a picture in a Lodge doesn't prove he was.
He has been accused of being a freemason while still alive. And various lodges say he was. The biggest piece of evidence that he was indeed a freemason is he never denied it while alive and the Phanar itself has never denied it. Athenagoras being a freemason is a common belief amongst Orthodox and has been printed in Orthodox publications, yet never any denial by any of the official organs of the Phanar. When Bartholomew was accused of being a freemason in Greece the Phanar immediately released a statement that he was not, that same statement never cleared any of the past patriarchs accused of the same.
 
Upvote 0

ArmyMatt

Regular Member
Supporter
Jan 26, 2007
41,469
20,025
41
Earth
✟1,455,676.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
He has been accused of being a freemason while still alive. And various lodges say he was. The biggest piece of evidence that he was indeed a freemason is he never denied it while alive and the Phanar itself has never denied it. Athenagoras being a freemason is a common belief amongst Orthodox and has been printed in Orthodox publications, yet never any denial by any of the official organs of the Phanar. When Bartholomew was accused of being a freemason in Greece the Phanar immediately released a statement that he was not, that same statement never cleared any of the past patriarchs accused of the same.

again, that's not hard evidence. I am not saying he wasn't one, I am just saying I never heard hard evidence that he was one.
 
Upvote 0

E.C.

Well-Known Member
Jan 12, 2007
13,746
1,267
✟134,199.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
This is part of the larger issue that “churched” people walk around all the time with their own ideas, convinced that their ideas are Orthodox when they are demonstrably in conflict with Tradition.
I was talking to a friend this last weekend about the need for adults to have a basic "Orthodoxy 101" type education/catechism. This, is exactly why. A lot of adults were never properly educated because when they were kids because they were kids in a time when the Church was more focused on survival than anything else (and I don't blame the Church for it). Or in the case of the USA, they were kids at a time when the Church leadership didn't realize that there was a need to educate because back in the Old World you were taught all of that in school as part of the curriculum.

One time at my church there was a person who was receiving the Eucharist the Sunday after their Chrismation / Baptism and the candle that they were holding had an "evil eye" pendant / decoration hanging from it. Maybe it's a Greek thing I don't know.
It's a Mediterranean ex-Ottoman holdover thing. I've seen Greeks, Arabs, Jews, and, Turks have it. It is not Orthodox. If the Greeks gripe about headscarves because of supposed Ottoman era connotations (at least that's what another thread said) than one would think they would get rid of THAT :rolleyes:
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

ArmyMatt

Regular Member
Supporter
Jan 26, 2007
41,469
20,025
41
Earth
✟1,455,676.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
If the claim was sufficiently widely known, enough that would warrant a denial, then that would make it fairly damning.
Was the charge widely circulated in media?

even then, that doesn't make it true. the Mandela effect is a real thing.

and again, I am not saying he wasn't one (I admit I can't read the linked article in Greek, so something might be in there), but I think if we are going to accuse a bishop of something, we better have more than people just saying it's common knowledge.
 
Upvote 0

Euodius

Are you kitten me right meow?
Supporter
Nov 29, 2019
426
341
Stafford
✟49,334.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
In Relationship
even then, that doesn't make it true. the Mandela effect is a real thing.

and again, I am not saying he wasn't one (I admit I can't read the linked article in Greek, so something might be in there), but I think if we are going to accuse a bishop of something, we better have more than people just saying it's common knowledge.

The article lists him as a "Distinguished Greek Mason." If you navigate out to the list you can observe Patriarch Benedict and Patriarch Basil III also being listed. Most of the text is just a biography, but unfortunately the lodge of initiation and date of initiation are no longer included.

One needs only to read the words of Athenagoras for proof. For example, Patriarch Athenagoras' Christmas 1967 statement. Throughout his life, Athenagoras continually taught what is easy to recognize as 'masonic' doctrine while Orthodox doctrine is generally absent. His actions, including the dropping of the Anathema against Rome, are in line with the diabolic will of Masonry. Judge him by his fruits and why it is 'common knowledge' is clear.

“We are deceived and we sin, if we think that the Orthodox faith came down from Heaven and that all [other] creeds are unworthy. Three hundred million people have chosen Islam in order to reach their god, and other hundreds of millions are Protestants, Catholics, and Buddhists. The goal of every religion is to improve mankind.” - OrqodoxoV TupoV , No. 94 [December 1968]
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

ArmyMatt

Regular Member
Supporter
Jan 26, 2007
41,469
20,025
41
Earth
✟1,455,676.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
The article lists him as a "Distinguished Greek Mason." If you navigate out to the list you can observe Patriarch Benedict and Patriarch Basil III also being listed. Most of the text is just a biography, but unfortunately the lodge of initiation and date of initiation are no longer included.

One needs only to read the words of Athenagoras for proof. For example, Patriarch Athenagoras' Christmas 1967 statement. Throughout his life, Athenagoras continually taught what is easy to recognize as 'masonic' doctrine while Orthodox doctrine is generally absent. His actions, including the dropping of the Anathema against Rome, are in line with the diabolic will of Masonry. Judge him by his fruits and why it is 'common knowledge' is clear.

“We are deceived and we sin, if we think that the Orthodox faith came down from Heaven and that all [other] creeds are unworthy. Three hundred million people have chosen Islam in order to reach their god, and other hundreds of millions are Protestants, Catholics, and Buddhists. The goal of every religion is to improve mankind.” - OrqodoxoV TupoV , No. 94 [December 1968]

yeah, but that's not hard evidence. a bishop who agrees with certain tenants or whatever of the Masons, doesn't actually make one a Mason.
 
Upvote 0

Euodius

Are you kitten me right meow?
Supporter
Nov 29, 2019
426
341
Stafford
✟49,334.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
In Relationship
yeah, but that's not hard evidence. a bishop who agrees with certain tenants or whatever of the Masons, doesn't actually make one a Mason.
Which is the greater? The organization or the organism?

Which is condemnable? Membership to an organization of occultism or complete ideological alignment to western occultism?
 
Upvote 0

ArmyMatt

Regular Member
Supporter
Jan 26, 2007
41,469
20,025
41
Earth
✟1,455,676.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Which is the greater? The organization or the organism?

Which is condemnable? Membership to an organization of occultism or complete ideological alignment to western occultism?

they are both condemnable, but that's another issue. the issue is whether or not he actually was a Mason, and if there is actual hard evidence for it.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Barney2.0

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Dec 1, 2017
6,003
2,336
Los Angeles
✟451,221.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Oh yes. They embedded latin monks in Christian strongholds through out the Levant starting in the 1600's. The Maronites never resisted they just said, 'we never broke communion with you guys' so they quickly joined. Maronites were monothelete hold overs. Under the Ottomon empire christian education was poor and the liturgical books were falling apart as there were no scribes or printing press. The clergy in these areas had to know Greek and Arabic (and aramaic and some arabic for the syriac) but their education was handed down and poor. The Latins provided new books and sent them to be educated in Rome, they eventually became uniate. That's why there are both Melkite Catholics and also Syriac non-chalcedonians (western syriac rite) catholics and also maronites who were monotheletes.
Also its worth noting that the Melkites were once identical in liturgy and worship to the Syriac Orthodox, the Chalcedonian Church of Antioch once used Syriac in the liturgy along with their Non-Chalcedonian counterparts before they adopted the Byzantine liturgy at the influence of the Eastern Roman Empire. Also just a slight correction the imbedding of Latin monks in the Levant actually started in the first crusade when the Latin Church controlled large parts of the Levant under the crusaders. The Latins sway you with with their power and richness, many easterners like myself either nearly fell for that or did intact fall for it. I came to realize, however that grandeur doesn’t equal truth. It’s sometimes really comforting for middle eastern Christians to know that they have a big, huge, super rich, and powerful Church looking after them from Islamic domination rather then being in communion with Churches that are under Islamic rule themselves. For many of us it’s a huge factor for why you end up turning into an arm of the Latins. I wanted to do it myself for that same reason, but it’s better to be poor and suffer and hold to Orthodoxy then to be rich and powerful and hold to heresy.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

rusmeister

A Russified American Orthodox Chestertonian
Dec 9, 2005
10,394
5,011
Eastern Europe
Visit site
✟432,491.00
Country
Montenegro
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
they are both condemnable, but that's another issue. the issue is whether or not he actually was a Mason, and if there is actual hard evidence for it.
I think your standard of “hard evidence” to be a bar set too high. At the very least, there is evidence that says that it is VERY possible, even likely, that the Patriarch was a Mason. You are right that we cannot say for absolute certainty. But the evidence seems already sufficiently weighty that it must be seriously considered. A statement like the 1968 one quoted is a serious thing, if it be true. It is very difficult to say why multiple Masonic lodges would claim as a member one who was decidedly not, or why the Phanar would have swiftly denied membership of one Patriarch, and of another not at all. It makes the possibility a strong one, and not one to be dismissed just because the evidence is not “hard”, which would evidently require that the Patriarch have publicly stated that he was a Mason, something that it does not seem any hierarch would ever publicly admit, true or not.
 
Upvote 0

ArmyMatt

Regular Member
Supporter
Jan 26, 2007
41,469
20,025
41
Earth
✟1,455,676.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
I think your standard of “hard evidence” to be a bar set too high. At the very least, there is evidence that says that it is VERY possible, even likely, that the Patriarch was a Mason. You are right that we cannot say for absolute certainty. But the evidence seems already sufficiently weighty that it must be seriously considered. A statement like the 1968 one quoted is a serious thing, if it be true. It is very difficult to say why multiple Masonic lodges would claim as a member one who was decidedly not, or why the Phanar would have swiftly denied membership of one Patriarch, and of another not at all. It makes the possibility a strong one, and not one to be dismissed just because the evidence is not “hard”, which would evidently require that the Patriarch have publicly stated that he was a Mason, something that it does not seem any hierarch would ever publicly admit, true or not.

well, no. there actually are records of Patriarch Meletios as a Mason and as a member of certain Lodges. plus earlier in this thread someone posted that his public burial, he was in his Masonic garb. asking for something similar for Patriarch Athenagoras isn't setting a bar too high.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

rusmeister

A Russified American Orthodox Chestertonian
Dec 9, 2005
10,394
5,011
Eastern Europe
Visit site
✟432,491.00
Country
Montenegro
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
well, no. there actually are records of Patriarch Meletios as a Mason and as a member of certain Lodges. plus earlier in this thread someone posted that his public burial, he was in his Masonic garb. asking for something similar for Patriarch Athenagoras isn't setting a bar too high.
That just begs the question, bar for what? We agree that there is no definitive proof beyond the shadow of a doubt. I would only disagree if you are saying we may not consider the very real possibility that he was one, or consider it likely. I see enough to consider it very likely. But I grant that it’s not the final word and that we cannot affirm that he certainly was.

The likelihood is serious enough to consider its impact, if true, on us.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Euodius
Upvote 0