The beginning of all things-How something came out of nothing

[joshua 1 9]

You can't have a big bang, (which is not actually a bang at all but an expansion of energy) with out having something to go bang.

The universe is expanding or contracting. One or the other. The more you compact the universe the hotter it becomes. Neil Degrasse wrote about this in his book: "Astrophysics for people in a Hurry". You can say Degrasse talks nonsense if you want but he is still a PhD and he is still considered to be an expert. Although Max Planck is considered to be the father of quantum mechanics and he set the standard. Classic physics has their own standard. For example a finite system has constraints but you can still have an infinite number of divisions. My son is very advanced in mathematics. He can come up with a simple formula for most anything you would ever want or need.

 

[joshua 1 9]

My comment referred to your statements, which don't come from the Bible.

Ok if what you are talking about is in the Bible then give the the reference chapter and verse so we can do a Bible study.

 

[Resha Caner]

Ok if what you are talking about is in the Bible then give the the reference chapter and verse so we can do a Bible study.

Quote me something I said, and we can discuss it. I'm not sure what you're talking about.

 

[joshua 1 9]

You're starting to sound very gnostic, which is a heresy Christians have been fighting since the letters of the Apostle John.

I thought you wanted to study the Bible. Ok if you want to read about a reprobate mind we are talking about Romans 1:28 "And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient" Strong's Greek: 96. ἀδόκιμος (adokimos) -- 8 Occurrences

1cor2:10 "But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory" Strong's Greek: 3466. μυστήριον (mustérion) -- a mystery or secret doctrine

These are the scriptures I am talking about. Perhaps your understanding or interpretation is different then mine. If you are accusing people of "gnostic heresy" whatever that is you may want to be careful because usually people are guilty of what they accuse others of. I have studied a little bit of Kaballah but mostly I study the Hebrew letters that make up the ancient Hebrew language that the Bible was written in. A language very much like our English language today.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Quote me something I said, and we can discuss it. I'm not sure what you're talking about.

You were the one that stepped into the middle of a conversation. We were talking about: "something can come out of nothing". If you want to substantiate that then I need a chapter and verse or an expert witness. My brother gets paid $500 an hour as an expert witness.

 

[Cis.jd]

The only way something can come out of nothing is through thought.

Every invention and art all began in someones mind. In short, from nothing.

 

[Shema_Ysrael]

By proposing the 'Big Bang' theory, the scientists agree that something can come out of nothing but do not understand how something came out of nothing. The bible has the answer. This video by harvest media explains how it is possible for something to come out of nothing. Watch it by clicking the link below and share your views.

I believe so. How do we explain "Dark matter" and "Dark Energy" to which the Scientists cannot have explanation until now, despite all the modern technology available to us today?

Just as God, who created all things are invisible, so does the 95% percent (approximately) of the universe we see is made of invisible matter. If we believe the Bible, then we know that all things are possible with an "Omniscient God".

By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible.
Hebrews 11:3 NKJV

 

[Resha Caner]

We were talking about: "something can come out of nothing".

We were. Did I say something you disagreed with?

... if you want to read about a reprobate mind we are talking about Romans 1:28 "And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient"

I didn't want to talk about it. You brought it up. But, yep, that's what Romans 1:28 says.

1cor2:10 "But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory"

Yep. Likewise, that's what 1 Corinthians 2:10 says. Yet nothing about angels bringing you the mystery from a secret heavenly library while others are left in the dark.

... "gnostic heresy" whatever that is ...

Among other things, it's a belief that only those with special characteristics can see hidden mysteries. The word "gnosis" means "hidden knowledge". As I said, from the beginning the church has considered that idea a heresy. Whatever hidden things the Bible speaks of are hidden to everyone, and whenever the mystery is revealed, it is revealed to everyone.

I have studied a little bit of Kaballah ...

Why does that interest you?

 

[joshua 1 9]

We were. Did I say something you disagreed with?

My question for the third time is: What scripture do you get "something out of nothing" from? If we are talking about the Bible then what verse in the Bible are we talking about?

Yep. Likewise, that's what 1 Corinthians 2:10 says. Yet nothing about angels bringing you the mystery from a secret heavenly library while others are left in the dark.

Wisdom, knowledge and books are all searchable words in our Bible. My favorite verse is Psalm 139:15,16: "My frame was not hidden from You when I was made in secret, when I was woven together in the depths of the earth. Your eyes saw my unformed body; all my days were written in Your book and ordained for me before one of them came to be"

Notice all of the words I use are in the Bible: "secret", "knowledge", "wisdom", "understanding","books" are words we read in our Bible. In Psalm 139:16 we are told that God writes a book for every man, women & child that was ever conceived. That is a LOT of books. There are 8 billion people alive right now, so there are 8 billion books written in secret for them. It maybe true the Bible does not use the word: "Library" I took the liberty of saying all of these massive volumes of books are kept in a library.

This does not even get into the books that were written at the foundation of the world. "And all who dwell on the earth will worship the beast— all whose names have not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain." (Rev13:8)

I got a house full of people talking to me, I got to quit in the middle of this

 

[Resha Caner]

My question for the third time is: What scripture do you get "something out of nothing" from? If we are talking about the Bible then what verse in the Bible are we talking about?

John 1:3
Colossians 1:16-17

Wisdom, knowledge and books are all searchable words in our Bible ... Notice all of the words I use are in the Bible: "secret", "knowledge", "wisdom", "understanding","books" are words we read in our Bible.

Oh my.

I got a house full of people talking to me, I got to quit in the middle of this

Yeah, it's probably a good idea to end this discussion.

 

[fhansen]

In that case where did the big bang come from?

Well, from something, obviously.

 

[renniks]

The universe is expanding or contracting. One or the other. The more you compact the universe the hotter it becomes. Neil Degrasse wrote about this in his book: "Astrophysics for people in a Hurry". You can say Degrasse talks nonsense if you want but he is still a PhD and he is still considered to be an expert. Although Max Planck is considered to be the father of quantum mechanics and he set the standard. Classic physics has their own standard. For example a finite system has constraints but you can still have an infinite number of divisions. My son is very advanced in mathematics. He can come up with a simple formula for most anything you would ever want or need.

I never said it wasn't expanding. I said you can't have an expansion without first having something to expand. So the big bang does not explain how everything came from nothing.

 

[renniks]

I would agree God is the ultimate cause. But if you ask a physicist, you'll likely get one of two answers: 1) I don't know, or 2) it was just one in an infinite series of big bangs. Again, science (as a method) takes a different approach. It will never lead to God.

That's just circular reasoning taking us nowhere.
"fors the scientist who has lived by faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance, he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries."
Robert Jastrow

 

[JackRT]

The Big Bang theory just proves that something came out of a big bang, not that everything came out of nothing.

We have no problem believing in a God uncreated and eternal so why is it so difficult to say "There was never nothing."?

 

[Resha Caner]

That's just circular reasoning taking us nowhere.
"fors the scientist who has lived by faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance, he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries."
Robert Jastrow

"Scientist" and "Theologian" are not mutually exclusive categories. Neither guarantees success and neither guarantees failure. Whether or not scientists and theologians end up sitting on the same mountaintop usually has very little to do with science or theology. I happen to dabble in both - one more professionally than the other - but still … both.

 

[fwGod]

The Big Bang theory just proves that something came out of a big bang, not that everything came out of nothing.

The law of cause and effect cannot be ignored. If all things came out of the Big Bang, then what caused the B.B.?

When they don't say what caused the Big Bang they are saying that everything came out of nothing. The law of cause and effect states that something coming out of nothing is impossible.

What is created cannot come from a causeless effect.

 

[PaulCyp1]

Maybe they should go back to science 101, which teaches us that no natural entity can exist without an origin, that is, without coming into existence. And, that no natural event can occur without a pre-existing cause. Not that you have to be a scientist to appreciate these obvious principles. Any rational person recognizes that they are true. Obviously scientists do not recognize how this happened, because science is the study of the natural universe in natural terms, and there is no natural explanation for the origin of matter, energy, time and space, which was a supernatural event.

 

[klutedavid]

In that case where did the big bang come from?

From the singularity.

 

[klutedavid]

The law of cause and effect cannot be ignored. If all things came out of the Big Bang, then what caused the B.B.?

When they don't say what caused the Big Bang they are saying that everything came out of nothing. The law of cause and effect states that something coming out of nothing is impossible.

What is created cannot come from a causeless effect.

Science cannot observe, measure, or even hypothesize, any process or event before the universe itself originated.

I don't think science believes that before the Big Bang there was absolutely nothing in existence. I do think that science would be silent regarding anything existing before the big Bang.

Not even the Genesis account declares that nothing existed before the first day. It was not until God created light that the first day took place. Before that first day the earth and the waters of the deep were dark and formless.

How long was the earth formless and dark?

 

[joshua 1 9]

So the big bang does not explain how everything came from nothing.

Because the big bang does not begin with nothing. That is not a part of the big bang theory. Science does not tell us where the laws come from that regulate the universe. They do a good job of explaining those natural laws though. The Greeks said we have: earth, air, fire and water. Now Science tells us that the universe started out: hydrogen & helium with trace amounts of lithium & beryllium. They do not say where these four elements came from. They just say that all the other elements came from these four. They do not tells us where the natural laws come from that regulate the entire universe. They do tells us that the laws are universal and are the same anywhere you go in the universe. Again Neil DeGrasse Tyson talks a lot about this in his book: Astrophysics for People in a Hurry.