A warning about False Teaching in the churches!

[Jamdoc]

None of us are ever going to deserve salvation, we're all guilty, grace is grace. If God does not extend His grace to us after we repent and place our faith in Jesus, there is literally nothing we can do to save ourselves. Our fate is in the hands of the Lord. No works can make us deserve salvation. You can emulate the life of Jesus Christ as much as possible, and avoid sin as much as you can and unless God has extended His grace to you, you go into the lake of fire, the second death, call it what you will.
You do what's right and avoid sin not because you think it's going to secure your salvation or avoid punishment, but because you Love God and want to please Him, it's not about you.

If a Thief being nailed to a cross next to Jesus Christ can admit he's a sinner, admit he is getting the death he deserves, and then places his fate in the hands of Jesus Christ, having faith that Jesus will remember him when He comes into His Kingdom, and Jesus PROMISES him that he's going to be with Him in Paradise that day (Luke 23:40-43), then that's all salvation takes. That thief didn't walk the life, that thief didn't live a profitable life, he lived a horrible life. He didn't deserve to go to Paradise at all.
He REPENTED
He Put His faith in Jesus and asked Him to save him
and that's it. God doesn't break promises.

If I do those things, and I still go to Hell, then there was nothing I could have done to change that. That is in God's hands, God's decision, my works won't add up to dirt, they won't save me. It's what I deserve, it's what you deserve, it's what all of us deserve and no works will change that. But I have faith that that will not happen, because I put my faith in Jesus Christ paying for my sins, as many as they have been, and as many as I will continue to do, try as hard as I can not to, I'm gonna sin, I'm sorry Lord, I'll try but I'll fail because I'm not the Lord, and imperfection and sin is my nature. I put my faith in Jesus Christ paying for your sins, as many or few as they have been, but you've done them, and you will continue to do them (Romans 3:23)

 

[dqhall]

The 2 most critical False Doctrines in today’s churches

● Once saved, always saved
There are many NT verses that threaten the loss of salvation!

● The pre-tribulation rapture
You aren’t going anywhere … except through economic collapse,
famine, persecution, and the great tribulation of the antichrist.
So, get ready … spiritually, mentally, emotionally, and physically!

The appearance of an antichrist is not significant.

1 John 2 (WEB)
18 Little children, these are the end times, and as you heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have arisen. By this we know that it is the final hour. 19 They went out from us, but they didn’t belong to us; for if they had belonged to us, they would have continued with us. But they left, that they might be revealed that none of them belong to us.

Those who first read John’s letter did not have many decades before their lives on earth ended.

 

[BCsenior]

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An addition has been made at the bottom of the OP.

 

[BCsenior]

If not obeying means that someone does not love Christ,
they were never saved in the first place.
You can't lose something that you never had ...

What God expects of us is a correct and acceptable heart attitude
towards loving Him and thus obeying Him.
IMO, He considers doing our best as perfection, which is what He asks for.

God's grace in Ephesians 2:8-9, for example, is about
when we initially receive the precious Holy Spirit.
Then, it is the believer's responsibility to maintain his/her salvation.
Hence, all of the many dire warnings about losing our salvation
(those verses which almost everyone today ignores and/or rejects).

 

[reformed05]

I've always known you were off ... and you've proved it again (to me).
You're a cessationist, aren't you?

Here's a cute one for you ... I enjoy this!
The 5-fold ministry of church leadership is given in Ephesians 4:11.
Cessationists accept that pastor and teachers are still for today,
butski NOT evangelists, prophets, and apostles.
Total insanity? ... or just deceived?

Who is insane or deceived? You or everyone who disagrees with you?

 

[BCsenior]

Practicing sin/habitually is to willingly sin without repentance, and to do so often.

Yes, and the NT is full of dire warnings about this!

Just for example ...
Those who choose to be involved in habitual sin cannot enter the kingdom of God
(1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Galatians 5:19-24, Ephesians 5:3-6).

How do like one of my favorites? ...
"He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son.
But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers,
idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone,
which is the second death.” (Revelation 21:7-8)
Can believers who do these things get away with it,
while non-believers go to hell for doing them?
Can you see how ridiculous that would be?

BTW ... 1 John was written to believers!
They are told that if they confess their sins,
they will be cleansed from all unrighteousness.
But, this must be followed up with repentance,
which is stopping the sin(s) and forsaking them.

 

[BCsenior]

I think you will bear more fruit for Christ going out with the gospel to unbelievers.

Yes, that may be true ... and I still do evangelize non-believers where I live.
But, God has called me to WARN many who think they are saved, but are not.
Who these are exactly, of course, I know not.

 

[Ricky M]

C'mon, man. How come you're so certain you're not included in the broad brush stroke with which you paint so many others? Do you ever doubt yourself? Are you so certain that you have everything right and they everything wrong?

Do you gobble up grace and yet refuse to extend it to others? Maybe you have false assurance? It's easy to feel right when you spend your efforts pointing out where everyone else is wrong.

How about coming down off the Holy Mountain and joining the rest of us sinners? The water is fine and the grace is sufficient.

When adopting a doctrine one thing people must ask is "what if I'm wrong". If you believe in OSAS, what if you are wrong? Your salvation may not be as sure as you think. If you believe salvation can be forfeited, what if you are wrong? Your salvation is more sure than you think. If you believe in pre-trib, what if you are wrong? You'll be subjected to horrors you never prepared for. If you believe in post-trib, what if you're wrong? You escape a horror you prepared to see.

On any subject, just consider what would be if in your human understanding you are wrong.

 

[Ricky M]

The best way to expose what is false is not by ranting about it. The best way to expose what is false is by demonstrating what is true.

People don't recognize truth any more. How do you think Trump got into office?

 

[Ricky M]

There is a slight problem with your warning. It doesn't go along with the spirit of the New Testament. And the prophet function that you are using ceased at the death of John the Baptiser in 30AD.

Again, what if you are wrong?

 

[Ricky M]

Another false teaching, or something that may easily let false teaching in, is the "I am passing on a message/warning from God to you", teaching.
First of all it implies special status/revelation on the part of the messenger - almost making them untouchable. I.O.W, "don't blame/argue with me, this is what God says".
Secondly, the "message" is sometimes the messenger's own beliefs, illustrated with a few selected verses of Scripture.

In my experience, anyone with a gift of prophecy, or who has a word from the Lord, says, "this is what I believe the Lord is saying; I may be wrong, please pray about this, or, if it affects the church put it to the leadership team, and ask for discernment/confirmation."

The "this IS from God and you need to listen to what I am saying", approach is how we get false teachers in the first place - e.g cult leaders.

If a prophecy is from God, God will confirm it by a second and possibly third witness.

 

[BCsenior]

How do you think Trump got into office?

FYI, God told several people before the election that
He would put Trump into office ...
to give America 4 more years to repent and be saved.
Now, He might just give an additional 4 years.

God has been saying ...
The church needs to repent BIG-TIME.
The abortion law needs to be changed BIG-TIME.
These are the 2 most MAJOR issues!

 

[public hermit]

On any subject, just consider what would be if in your human understanding you are wrong.

I agree. I would go a bit further and admit to myself that even though I don't believe I am wrong, I could be. There is a place for conviction concerning the truth, even revealed truths, but it is good to stay in touch with our own fallibility. If I am in touch with the possibility that I could be wrong (even though I don't think I am), I will be more generous and gracious to those with whom I disagree. The reality is, we live by faith and that faith entails the possibility that we could be wrong. If that possibility didn't entail, it would not be faith.

No one who understands the terms and whose cognitive equipment are functioning properly believes that 2+2 does not equal 4. We know it equals four, as everyone does. When it comes to religious doctrines there isn't anything close to that kind of agreement. So, we all know (or at least should know) that we could be wrong when it comes to doctrine. I imagine this idea won't sit well with some, and I understand why. We stake so much on these beliefs that to be wrong would (might) create an existential crisis. But that is the risk we all take when it comes to faith (and this risk when it comes to faith includes the atheist who is all too certain there is no God).

 

[Ricky M]

FYI, God told several people before the election that
He would put Trump into office ...
to give America 4 more years to repent and be saved.

Sorry, didn't mean to derail.

 

[Ricky M]

I agree. I would go a bit further and admit to myself that even though I don't believe I am wrong, I could be. There is a place for conviction concerning the truth, even revealed truths, but it is good to stay in touch with our own fallibility. If I am in touch with the possibility that I could be wrong (even though I don't think I am), I will be more generous and gracious to those with whom I disagree. The reality is, we live by faith and that faith entails the possibility that we could be wrong. If that possibility didn't entail, it would not be faith.

No one who understands the terms and whose cognitive equipment are functioning properly believes that 2+2 does not equal 4. We know it equals four, as everyone does. When it comes to religious doctrines there isn't anything close to that kind of agreement. So, we all know (or at least should know) that we could be wrong when it comes to doctrine. I imagine this idea won't sit well with some, and I understand why. We stake so much on these beliefs that to be wrong would (might) create an existential crisis. But that is the risk we all take when it comes to faith (and this risk when it comes to faith includes the atheist who is all too certain there is no God).

Truth is only available to those who are willing to question what they believe.

 

[Neogaia777]

This (new posted thread):

Woe to you, you who are seeking to justified by the law, you have fallen from Grace...

God Bless!

 

[CharismaticLady]

Are you insinuating that Paul, one of Jesus' 12 disciples, was not saved nor Christian? The quote I referenced took place after he'd been converted.

Romans 7:9
9 I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died.

Are you insinuating that Paul was over 1300 years old? Was he alive before the law was given to Moses? Paul, in using first person is talking about mankind. Good grief girl, reason this out, and above all read this in context. It's nice to believe one verse and stand on it, as long as all of the surrounding verses are in context. If you don't you will fall into false doctrines, such as "we will always sin." That statement is by a teacher who is clueless to what it means to be born again of the Spirit.

Paul has been talking about the LAW ever since chapter one. This is the conclusion of his teaching on the old covenant law, but even so preparing them along the way as in chapter 6 to a better way to keep the holy requirements of the Law, for we are no longer under the law, as it was impossible to keep because of man's sin nature.

Romans 7:12-13
12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good. 13 Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful.

The law spoken of here in chapter 7 is the law of sin and death.

In the next chapter, which is part of the CONTEXT, Paul introduces being in the SPIRIT, and It freeing us from the law of sin and death. Understand? Here look:

Romans 8:
There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Don't you understand that to say we will always sin declares that you haven't received the new birth that changes your sin nature to the divine nature. (2 Peter 1). And by saying "of course we will do better" is by your own willpower just like those still under the law in Romans 7 which you relate to, along with 1 John 1:8. Doing better is your own righteousness of filthy rags! We must be born again to be saved.

Romans 8:9
But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

In other words, if we haven't been baptized in the Holy Spirit and received the new birth, we do not belong to Christ.

(I'll read and respond to the rest of your post when I come back later.)

 

[His student]

..........Today, one of the dangerous false teachings is antinomianism:........

I'm not a big believer in just cutting and pasting for my posts - something that BCsenior does in thread after thread. But in this case I think a definition is necessary and some writers say things as well or better than I could.

In addition I have found you extremely irritating in the past because of your misrepresentation of the beliefs of others. So I have pretty much vowed to limit my contact with you because I don't want to give you a further platform to spew your falsehoods than you already have.

Definitions of antinomian
1 : one who holds that under the gospel dispensation of grace the moral law is of no use or obligation because faith alone is necessary to salvation
2 : one who rejects a socially established morality

antinomianism (n.)
1.the theological doctrine that by faith and God's grace a Christian is freed from all laws (including the moral standards of the culture)

I have been a Christian for over 60 years now and in all my years I have never met another supposed Christian who identified as one who subscribes to those definitions.

Considering your well known agenda and your propensity for misrepresenting the teachings of others I think the following is appropriate.

From "Theopedia":
"Antinomianism comes from the Greek meaning lawless. In Christian theology it is a pejorative term for the teaching that Christians are under no obligation to obey the laws of ethics or morality. Few, if any, would explicitly call themselves "antinomian," hence, it is usually a charge leveled by one group against an opposing group.......
Antinomianism may be viewed as the polar opposite of legalism, the notion that obedience to a code of religious law is necessary for salvation. In this sense, both antinomianism and legalism are considered errant extremes............Theological charges of antinomianism typically imply that the opponent's doctrine leads to various sorts of licentiousness, and imply that the antinomian chooses his theology in order to further a career of dissipation. The conspicuous austerity of life among surviving groups of Anabaptists or Calvinists suggests that these accusations are mostly for rhetorical effect."

 

[CharismaticLady]

Dead right. Any other view of it comes from a faulty exegesis of the passage, and a faulty theology concerning the conflict between the flesh and the Spirit in a person because of the new heart and spirit in a sinful mortal body.

Before Paul was converted he had no such conflict, because he did not have the Holy Spirit in him. He was completely in the flesh, so there could not have been a conflict. He said himself that he considered himself blameless according to the Law. So, if a person considers himself blameless, how can he have a conflict between what he wants in his heart with the Law? His heart was evil, and so, being entirely in the flesh and his spirit was dead, there couldn't have been any conflict at all. He believed he was totally righteous according to the Law, and totally correct in his quest to imprison and murder Christians.

It was only after his conversion to Christ that he saw himself as the chief of sinners. It was only after he was transformed by the Holy Spirit, with a new heart and an enlivened spirit, that he had the conflict between his renewed spirit, indwelt by the Holy Spirit and his sinful mortal body which had urges and desires that were contrary to the new Law of the spirit of life in Christ.

I think the faulty theology comes from the theology of the Holiness movements, where Pentecostalism grew out from, which has at its root entire sanctification by faith. In this theology, followers believe they are totally holy and have total victory over sin by faith. The problem with this theology is that every time they fall into temptation, they have to get sanctified by faith all over again. This means that they are always sinning, repenting, sinning, repenting, and so on, and never really achieve stability in their spiritual walk, often losing their assurance of salvation every time they get angry and kick the cat!

I should know. I cut my teeth in the Christian faith under that Holiness theology and it took over 40 years to be deprogrammed from it, and come to the place where I know that my salvation is ensured through my faith alone in Christ and not through any achievement in holy good deeds. And that the Holy Spirit is working within me to develop better sanctification which will become perfect when I meet the Lord face to face!

LOL Oscarr, my friend. Read my reply to her regarding what you said "Dead right" to, my last post above this one. Even old dogs can learn new tricks. XO

It is really sad that you even admit that you have been brainwashed out of the truth. For without holiness, no man shall see God.

 

[topher694]

People don't recognize truth any more. How do you think Trump got into office?

Seriously you are taking it there?

Actually it just proves my point. People, like yourself apparently, are looking for truth in the wrong places. We don't demonstrate what is right by acting like the world, we demonstrate what is right by rising above it. Politics, on both sides, is the gold standard of worldly behavior.