Did the Early Church Fathers teach "Calvinism?"

[rnmomof7]

It is the finer points of it that I object to. What the Bible says is true. I believe the Bible's account. I don't know what Augustine said but I disagree with Calvin for sure.

What did Calvin say that was not biblical?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

What did Calvin say that was not biblical?

Can this type of thing BE DEBATED/ ARGUED in THIS SECTION of the FORUM / according to the RULES of the SITE ?

 

[rnmomof7]

Because that is where high Calvinism takes us...see AW Pink for example, who did not believe God loves the non elect. It's all determinism, not a good God who died for all.

I happen to be a fan of Pink Scripture is full of places that tell us that God hates some people...as always said, we have to" define " hate.. ... We also have to define "determinism".. We need to define all as well ... How did the hearers understand the word "all "

 

[rnmomof7]

I was asking clarification ..that is not "allowed"?

 

[Sam91]

What did Calvin say that was not biblical?

I choose not to get into this debate today. It is fruitless. It is not like people want to dismiss the theology that they have been told by man and read His word with an open heart under the direction of the Holy Spirit. To read it just to get to know Him better. To read in fellowship with Him, humbly and at peace.

A post of mine from August was quoted. I replied. It isn't about who is right or wrong, it is about the Glorious and Great I AM. All praise, glory and honour belong to Him.

 

[Sam91]

I was asking clarification ..that is not "allowed"?

However, I have actually just stumbled upon this post in the first thread that I recall looking at after this one. If I have looked at one in between I'm just mistaken. I am awfully fatigued tonight and my short term memory is appalling.

A skim read of the first half of his post seems to be explanatory. I haven't read the second half. Maybe this will answer some of your question. Hope it helps.

Osas and apostasy

 

[BABerean2]

What did Calvin say that was not biblical?

He agreed with Augustine's claim that infants could become the elect through water baptism. Since the child had not come to faith, it must be based on another. It could have nothing to do with the will of the child.

.

 

[renniks]

I happen to be a fan of Pink Scripture is full of places that tell us that God hates some people...as always said, we have to" define " hate.. ... We also have to define "determinism".. We need to define all as well ... How did the hearers understand the word "all "

God is love. 1John 4:7. It's not just an attribute, it's his essence. I would not say that scripture is " full" of places where God says he hates people. There are verses that say God hates, always related to what people do. God's desire as revealed in the cross, is that all who do the deeds he hates would be saved.

 

[fhansen]

Dr. Ken Wilson reveals how Augustine's doctrine of "election" is the true source of what has come to be known as "Calvinism".

Augustine was attempting to explain how infants could become the "elect" through water baptism.
Since the child had not come to faith, it must be based on the will of another.
It must be determined by God, instead of the infant.

.

While the church accepted and already practiced the teaching that baptism was necessary for the remission of original sin, for regeneration, she's never necessarily accepted all of Augustine's reasoning on various aspects of this and other matters. To this day, the salvation of baptized infants is considered to be related to the will and actions of the family and community, just as "whole households" were said to be saved in Acts 16:31:
"They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved--you and your household."

The faith of others stand in, as modeled by our Lord. Then the person would be expected to hold to their baptismal vows, with the onus on themselves and their faith as they reached the age of reason and proceeded to live their lives with whatever time and grace were allowed them.

 

[BABerean2]

While the church accepted and already practiced the teaching that baptism was necessary for the remission of original sin, for regeneration, she's never necessarily accepted all of Augustine's reasoning on various aspects of this and other matters. To this day, the salvation of baptized infants is considered to be related to the will and actions of the family and community, just as "whole households" were said to be saved in Acts 16:31:
"They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved--you and your household."

The faith of others stand in, as modeled by our Lord. Then the person would be expected to hold to their baptismal vows, with the onus on themselves and their faith as they reached the age of reason and proceeded to live their lives with whatever time and grace were allowed them.

Yes. All of those who truly believe, as in the verse below, will be saved.


Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,


Jesus told Nicodemus in John chapter 3 that no person will inherit the kingdom of God, unless they are "born again" of the Spirit of God. Romans 8:9 confirms this fact.


Nobody gets into the New Covenant through another person's faith in Christ.



The New Covenant: Bob George

 

[reformed05]

I have studied it intensely and am still not a Calvinist. In fact the more I studied it, the more I realized how illogical the whole system was.

It would be great if you would go letter by letter of TULIP and tell us what Your understanding of it is. What it is you think Calvinists believe. I ask because I have had many people claim they have studied Reformed Theology and understand it but then they say things that show, no they don't.

 

[reformed05]

Is it a Christian spin-off of the Jewish concept of being the chosen of the chosen race, dominating their House of israel brothers, let alone the rest of mankind?

No

 

[Mountainmanbob]

If the early Church (60AD) warned against that how can we trust Augustine where he says things contrary to the bible?

He sure understood the Book of Romans.
Romans explains calvinist view very well.
M-Bob

 

[timothyu]

No

How so?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Romans does explain some views very well. As wrong.

Understanding Romans 9 Without the Calvinist Spin | The ...

https://israeliteindeed.wordpress.com › calvinism › understanding-romans-...
Please read each section of Romans 9 carefully, along with the commentary I ..... Again, the Calvinist wrongly assumes that vessels of wrath have no choice in ...
Analysis of Romans 9 and Calvinistic Arguments

www.insearchoftruth.org › articles › romans_9
Jun 12, 2009 - The Calvinistic View; Answering the Calvinist, Examining the Context ... nor having done any good or evil"); therefore, God's election is unconditional, ... For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "For this very purpose I have raised ...
Responses to the Calvinist - In Search of Truth

www.insearchoftruth.org › articles › responses_to_calvinism
Calvinism is one of the most prevalent doctrines in churches today. ... The misunderstanding that associates all opposing views with this "staw-man" has ...

 

[BABerean2]

It would be great if you would go letter by letter of TULIP and tell us what Your understanding of it is. What it is you think Calvinists believe. I ask because I have had many people claim they have studied Reformed Theology and understand it but then they say things that show, no they don't.

Very few of those who call themselves "Calvinists" know the true origin of their doctrine.

It began with Augustine's attempts to explain how infants could be the elect, through water baptism. Calvin also baptized babies.

.

 

[reformed05]

Very few of those who call themselves "Calvinists" know the true origin of their doctrine.

It began with Augustine's attempts to explain how infants could be the elect, through water baptism. Calvin also baptized babies.

.

Excuse me? Are you acquainted with most Calvinists so that you can say very few know the origins of their doctrine?

 

[reformed05]

Very few of those who call themselves "Calvinists" know the true origin of their doctrine.

It began with Augustine's attempts to explain how infants could be the elect, through water baptism. Calvin also baptized babies.

.

And I believe what I asked from you was what you think each letter of TULIP means.

 

[timothyu]

Patiently waiting. (#234)

 

[renniks]

And I believe what I asked from you was what you think each letter of TULIP means.

No, that was me you asked. What isn't self explanatory about tulip?
Here's a Calvinist quote:
" grace is irresistible. That means that if God gives grace to you, there is nothing in the world that you can do to resist it and thwart God's intention to take you to heaven."
I don't find this to be true in reality or biblically.