The Message version of the Bible (MSG)

[A Gerbil]

I have just been reading this, as a copy was presented to me as a gift. The Lord's Prayer reads 'as above, so below', which is a common expression used by occult groups, freemasonry, Hermeticism, etc. It's even implied by the gestures performed by Baphomet.

Does anybody believe that is a legitimate translation of 'on earth as it is in heaven', i.e. is it Biblical? What are your thoughts about the Message?

 

[eleos1954]

I have just been reading this, as a copy was presented to me as a gift. The Lord's Prayer reads 'as above, so below', which is a common expression used by occult groups, freemasonry, Hermeticism, etc. It's even implied by the gestures performed by Baphomet.

Does anybody believe that is a legitimate translation of 'on earth as it is in heaven', i.e. is it Biblical? What are your thoughts about the Message?

to me it lacks clarity.

 

[PloverWing]

I'm not fond of The Message -- just don't really like the way it reads -- but "as above, so below" is probably a reasonable rendition of the idea of "on earth as it is in heaven". Both phrases are meant to say that our lives here on earth should imitate the perfect goodness of heaven. It might not have been the best word choice by the translator of The Message, given its other associations. If the word choice bothers you, use a more conventional translation when you pray the Lord's Prayer.

 

[A Gerbil]

I'm not fond of The Message -- just don't really like the way it reads -- but "as above, so below" is probably a reasonable rendition of the idea of "on earth as it is in heaven". Both phrases are meant to say that our lives here on earth should imitate the perfect goodness of heaven. It might not have been the best word choice by the translator of The Message, given its other associations. If the word choice bothers you, use a more conventional translation when you pray the Lord's Prayer.

I do not believe that it could possibly have been published with that wording without anybody noticing the connotations of that particular phrase.

I was one of the last generations to go to a church school and I can say the Lord's Prayer in under eleven seconds, having said it at least five morning per week. The Message was a gify, otherwise I would be tempted to throw it in a bin. It's almost sacrilegious.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I have just been reading this, as a copy was presented to me as a gift. The Lord's Prayer reads 'as above, so below', which is a common expression used by occult groups, freemasonry, Hermeticism, etc. It's even implied by the gestures performed by Baphomet.

Does anybody believe that is a legitimate translation of 'on earth as it is in heaven', i.e. is it Biblical? What are your thoughts about the Message?

It's fine. "legitimate translation" is kind of pre-arranged awkward judgment to me....

We talk to the AUTHOR of all Scripture, the GIVER OF LIFE, every day, and if we lack wisdom, ask Him who
GIVES TO ALL MEN GENEROUSLY AND WITHOUT REBUKE
to be granted understanding , HIS understanding....
Thus almost any translation is fine for everyone abiding in Him.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I do not believe that it could possibly have been published with that wording without anybody noticing the connotations of that particular phrase.

What connotations?

 

[musicalpilgrim]

I like the Message Bible, it is an aid to understanding, and after reading Eugene Peterson's books, I believe he knew he could shed new light into Scripture. Language evolves, and this is a great and useful translation.

 

[A Gerbil]

What connotations?

Chick.com: Four Words That Open the Doorway to Satanism

From the above link:

'When I was a teenager, I was sucked into the occult by a simple phrase that unlocked the doorway to the occult. Oh, and I recently found it —in a commonly used Bible!

Want to know what it was? And what it had to do with this picture?

In high school, a friend of my dad`s gave me a book by Hermes Trismegistus. In it I learned a single phrase that is the basis of hermetic science (magic or occultism). It unlocked the doorway to the occult: "As above, so below."'

 

[eleos1954]

I do not believe that it could possibly have been published with that wording without anybody noticing the connotations of that particular phrase.

I was one of the last generations to go to a church school and I can say the Lord's Prayer in under eleven seconds, having said it at least five morning per week. The Message was a gify, otherwise I would be tempted to throw it in a bin. It's almost sacrilegious.

Put it in a book cover and put it on the shelf ;o)

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[Andrewn]

I like the Message Bible, it is an aid to understanding,

I don't see any redeeming qualities in the Message paraphrase. Which books of the Bible do you like in it?

 

[PloverWing]

Chick.com: Four Words That Open the Doorway to Satanism

I don't consider chick.com to be a reliable source of information.

I might agree that Eugene H. Peterson made a poor word choice in translating this verse, but I don't think there's anything more sinister going on here. Peterson uses a lot of contemporary slang and innovative phrasing in his paraphrase of the Bible. Some people find that it makes the Bible come alive for them. Others find that the language is uncomfortably trendy. But I don't see any occult magic going on here, just one guy's attempt to make the Bible speak to 21st-century people's lives.

 

[A Gerbil]

I don't consider chick.com to be a reliable source of information.

I might agree that Eugene H. Peterson made a poor word choice in translating this verse, but I don't think there's anything more sinister going on here. Peterson uses a lot of contemporary slang and innovative phrasing in his paraphrase of the Bible. Some people find that it makes the Bible come alive for them. Others find that the language is uncomfortably trendy. But I don't see any occult magic going on here, just one guy's attempt to make the Bible speak to 21st-century people's lives.

You're right it's crass of me to imply the author had evil motivations, but it just seems to be another manifestation of the decline in Christianity.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

read to here

 

[Lazarus Short]

I bought a copy of "The Message" several years ago, but only really read it starting a few days ago. I got to page 25 and read this: "In trying to be relevant, you're only being cute and inviting sacrilege." I realized that was exactly what Peterson was doing (some will no doubt, disagree) and I did not read much more...just could not go on.

 

[GreekOrthodox]

It is a horrible paraphrase.

1-2 The Word was first, the Word present to God, God present to the Word. The Word was God, in readiness for God from day one.

RSV - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God;

14 The Word became flesh and blood, and moved into the neighborhood.
(All I can think of is this)

NKJV - And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us,

 

[Lazarus Short]

It is a horrible paraphrase.

1-2 The Word was first, the Word present to God, God present to the Word. The Word was God, in readiness for God from day one.

RSV - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God;

14 The Word became flesh and blood, and moved into the neighborhood.
(All I can think of is this)
View attachment 304555

NKJV - And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us,

Thanks for that. I quit in the early chapters of Matthew, but if I had begun in the Gospel of John, I would probably have quit on Chapter 1. I'm sensitive to that chapter, having seen the hatchet job the New World "Translation" did to it.

 

[GreekOrthodox]

And I'm not completely turned off by paraphrases or a simplified Bible for someone that may have comprehension difficulties. Children's Bibles are often paraphrases as we're not trying to teach them systematic theology from these. But the Message is just plain poor.

 

[pescador]

And I'm not completely turned off by paraphrases or a simplified Bible for someone that may have comprehension difficulties. Children's Bibles are often paraphrases as we're not trying to teach them systematic theology from these. But the Message is just plain poor.

I agree with you -- except for the last sentence.

The Message is a one-person paraphrase of the Bible, nothing more, nothing less. It's an excellent work to enable people to understand the stories of the Bible via simplification. How many people have tried reading the King James version and given up because of its inscrutability?

If someone was just beginning to understand the Bible's message I wouldn't hesitate to recommend this paraphrase. 83% of the reviewers on Amazon give it 5 stars.

 

[GreekOrthodox]

Morning Pescador,
The biggest issue is that some of the paraphrasing leads to bad theology. "Moved into the neighborhood" loses a lot of the meaning behind "tented among us". There are good modern translations that convey the meaning from the original languages better than some paraphrases.

The other problem is that, which is not a fault of the Message itself, but I've run into a number of people that treat it as a translation rather than a paraphrase.