Michael the Great Prince!

Zachm531

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“And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.”
‭‭Daniel‬ ‭12:1-3‬ ‭KJV‬‬


From the research i’m doing, all im getting is Jehovas witnesses theories on this. Id like some outside ideas of who Michael the great prince is. Was he already here? If not, when is he coming? And in any way does this correlate Michael with Jesus? And if not, why is this Michael a “great prince”?
 

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...does this correlate Michael with Jesus?
Hi Zach, here's some of what the Bible has to say about Michael.

Jude
9 Michael the archangel, when he disputed with the devil and argued about the body of Moses, did not dare pronounce against him a railing judgment, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!

Are Michael the Archangel and the Lord Jesus Christ the same person? What do you think after reading the verse above?

--David
p.s. - Michael is a created being. His Creator is the Lord Jesus Christ.

John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was in the beginning with God.
3 All things came into being by Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

.
 
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ewq1938

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Daniel 10:13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.

Here we see Michael spoken of again but a different term for Archangel is used, "chief Prince" and we see that Michael is but one of them. We do not know how many others there are but he is only one of them as opposed to the only one. In the Hebrew the word "prince" is a leader of some kind. This is a reference to the archangels which is the high or leader angels over other angels, the ones with authority over the lower angels.
 
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Zachm531

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Michael is st. Archangel Michael. He is called great prince because he is head of all Angels of God.
1. How is an angel a saint? And 2. General or leader of army does not equal prince, so lets see some Biblical support on that
 
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Jonaitis

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“And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.”
‭‭Daniel‬ ‭12:1-3‬ ‭KJV‬‬


From the research i’m doing, all im getting is Jehovas witnesses theories on this. Id like some outside ideas of who Michael the great prince is. Was he already here? If not, when is he coming? And in any way does this correlate Michael with Jesus? And if not, why is this Michael a “great prince”?

Michael is believed to be the preincarnate Christ, or one that forshadows him.

I do not know where I stand on the issue.
 
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Zachm531

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Saints are lower level than angels. Angels of God are also saints but have and angelic level. Which mean they are sinless, saints have sins.
Where are you getting this from lol?
You didnt answer how an angel is a saint. And how are angels above saints?
“Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭6:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Also, why are you assuming that the Michael of Daniel is the archangel Michael?
 
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Zachm531

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Michael is believed to be the preincarnate Christ, or one that forshadows him.

I do not know where I stand on the issue.
Yeah its very interesting. In Daniel 12, Michael is called the ”Great Prince” and in Isaiah 9, the Messiah is called the “Prince of Peace”
 
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Zachm531

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Where are you getting this from lol?
Daniel 10:13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.

Here we see Michael spoken of again but a different term for Archangel is used, "chief Prince" and we see that Michael is but one of them. We do not know how many others there are but he is only one of them as opposed to the only one. In the Hebrew the word "prince" is a leader of some kind. This is a reference to the archangels which is the high or leader angels over other angels, the ones with authority over the lower angels.
Well does that mean that Jesus is just one of many princes? Isaiah 9:6
 
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Where are you getting this from lol?
You didnt answer how an angel is a saint. And how are angels above saints?
“Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭6:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Also, why are you assuming that the Michael of Daniel is the archangel Michael?

Because prince in bible is called st. Archangel Michael, because he is head of all Angels of God.
Angels don't have sins, this is why they are above saints.
We will judge fallen angels only, there is no need to judge Angels of God, they don't have sins, and they are above saints.
They are holy, holy mean saints.
This is all my information.

Luke 9:26: For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels.

Luke 12:8: Also I say unto you, Whosoever shall confess me before men, him shall the Son of man also confess before the angels of God:

Luke 12:9: But he that denieth me before men shall be denied before the angels of God.
 
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Zachm531

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Because prince in bible is called st. Archangel Michael, because he is head of all Angels of God.
Angels don't have sins, this is why they are above saints.
We will judge fallen angels only, there is no need to judge Angels of God, they don't have sins, and they are above saints.
They are holy, holy mean saints.
This is all my information.

Luke 9:26: For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels.

Luke 12:8: Also I say unto you, Whosoever shall confess me before men, him shall the Son of man also confess before the angels of God:

Luke 12:9: But he that denieth me before men shall be denied before the angels of God.
I appreciate that you are finally using Bible verses BUT none of these verses support “Because prince in bible is called st. Archangel Michael, because he is head of all Angels of God.
Angels don't have sins, this is why they are above saints.”
Im not saying i disagree with you BUT without Biblical proof this is just your opinion
 
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ViaCrucis

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“And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.”
‭‭Daniel‬ ‭12:1-3‬ ‭KJV‬‬


From the research i’m doing, all im getting is Jehovas witnesses theories on this. Id like some outside ideas of who Michael the great prince is. Was he already here? If not, when is he coming? And in any way does this correlate Michael with Jesus? And if not, why is this Michael a “great prince”?

Michael is an angel. One of several important angels in 2nd Temple period Judaism known as archangels, other archangels include Gabriel and Raphael. Other archangels are known from the literature of the period, but none other than these three are named in the Bible (Raphael is mentioned in the book of Tobit, which is accepted by Catholics and Orthodox as Scripture, but not by most Protestants).

So Michael is one of the archangels, and is often seen as the chief of the archangels.

Archangel - Wikipedia

-CryptoLutheran
 
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ViaCrucis

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1. How is an angel a saint?t

The word "saint" comes from the Latin sanctus, meaning "holy". Hence the English word sanctify. A saint is a "holy one", which is used in Scripture both to describe the angels as well as God's people.

So St. Michael the Archangel is a reference to Michael as a holy angel.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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ViaCrucis

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Michael is believed to be the preincarnate Christ, or one that forshadows him.

This is a false and heretical belief.

Michael is an angel, a creature.
Jesus Christ is the Eternal and Uncreated Logos, the only-begotten Son of the Father, true God of true God, the One by whom all things were made--including all the angels.

As it is written, "or to which of the angels did God ever say, 'You are my Son, today I have begotten you'? Or again, 'I will be to him a father, and he shall be to me a son'?" (Hebrews 1:5)

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Jonaitis

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This is a false and heretical belief.

Michael is an angel, a creature.
Jesus Christ is the Eternal and Uncreated Logos, the only-begotten Son of the Father, true God of true God, the One by whom all things were made--including all the angels.

As it is written, "or to which of the angels did God ever say, 'You are my Son, today I have begotten you'? Or again, 'I will be to him a father, and he shall be to me a son'?" (Hebrews 1:5)

-CryptoLutheran

Interesting, I didn't think anything was considered heresy coming from you?
 
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ViaCrucis

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Interesting, I didn't think anything was considered heresy coming from you?

Why wouldn't you think anything is considered heresy?

Scripture is very clear in its warnings against heresy.

Or is this intended as a slight against me? If so then what possible good could come from attacking my character so thoughtlessly and needlessly?

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Zachm531

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This is a false and heretical belief.

Michael is an angel, a creature.
Jesus Christ is the Eternal and Uncreated Logos, the only-begotten Son of the Father, true God of true God, the One by whom all things were made--including all the angels.

As it is written, "or to which of the angels did God ever say, 'You are my Son, today I have begotten you'? Or again, 'I will be to him a father, and he shall be to me a son'?" (Hebrews 1:5)

-CryptoLutheran
So when the Bible says “sons of God” in the OT or NT that is NOT referring to angels correct?
 
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