OT vs NT -- Why the striking contrasts?

[Neogaia777]

In today's terms that would be "frenemies" which are friends but ones that you have issues with. Jesus was enemies with people he did not love or even like...such as some Pharisees that he said were evil and going to hell.

He was an enemy to them, but He did not hate, nor was He enemies with anyone... And, in fact, He called the "Pharisees" His own or His "own people"... He was warning them, that's all, and many of them repented and/or became Christians later on, or after He would preach to them, give them the woes and warnings, etc... They were not His enemies nor did He hate them, Jesus had no enemies, but others considered Him they're enemy only...

They were hard-headed and hard-hearted, some of the very hardest and harshest around (cruelest, coldest, least compassionate, forgiving, etc) (in their heads and their hearts, etc), was the only reason He was the way He was with them, but He did not hate them, but only had great love for them only...

God Bless!

 

[ewq1938]

Not sure I agree with this...

Is killing your enemies the same as loving them?

 

[ewq1938]

nor was He enemies with anyone

Oh?

Heb_1:13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?

 

[Neogaia777]

Oh?

Heb_1:13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?

His enemies were yet to be revealed (manifest, etc)... while He was here on earth He hated no one, (considered no one a true enemy, etc) unless your going to suggest otherwise...?

With the Pharisees He got frustrated and angry, maybe impatient maybe, with them sometimes, but He had nothing but love for them always...

Or, OK, how bout this then...? Name some human beings, or a certain group of human beings, that He considered His real and true very much hated "enemies" or that were His true enemies, while He was here on earth with us, as He was (back then) with and while He was here on earth with us then, etc...?

Did He have any real true enemies back then, and not just people who didn't like and maybe hated Him, etc...? Or not...?

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

His enemies were yet to be revealed (manifest, etc)... while He was here on earth He hated no one, (considered no one a true enemy, etc) unless your going to suggest otherwise...?

With the Pharisees He got frustrated and angry, maybe impatient maybe, with them sometimes, but He had nothing but love for them always...

Or, OK, how bout this then...? Name some human beings, or a certain group of human beings, that He considered His real and true very much hated "enemies" or that were His true enemies, while He was here on earth with us, as He was (back then) with and while He was here on earth with us then, etc...?

Did He have any real true enemies back then, and not just people who didn't like and maybe hated Him, etc...? Or not...?

God Bless!

His enemies would be those who were to become who would reject Him over and over and over again, all the way to their deaths, or while or during all of their, or their whole entire lives here, and would never repent, etc, which were yet to be revealed, etc...

God Bless!

 

[ewq1938]

His enemies were yet to be revealed...

He knew his enemies while he was here and those who would come in the future. The fact is he has enemies and when he returns he will kill many of them. These are not the "enemies" he said to love.

With the Pharisees He got frustrated and angry, maybe impatient maybe, with them sometimes, but He had nothing but love for them always...

His own words show no love for them.

Or, OK, how bout this then...? Name some human beings, or a certain group of human beings, that He considered His real and true very much hated "enemies" or that were His true enemies, while He was here on earth with us, as He was (back then) with and while He was here on earth with us then, etc...?

Did He have any real true enemies back then, and not just people who didn't like and maybe hated Him, etc...? Or not...?

His enemies conspired against him and convinced the Roman's to kill him. He spoke very harshly against these same enemies.

 

[Neogaia777]

He knew his enemies while he was here and those who would come in the future. The fact is he has enemies and when he returns he will kill many of them. These are not the "enemies" he said to love.

I did just tell you who his true enemies would be, but "whatever" man...

And He may, or may not have already known who those would be, or would have been in the future back then, but, my point is, they would come in the future or after He did what He did here, etc...

His own words show no love for them.

No they do not, they show frustration, but not a complete lack of love, not hardly at all, but "whatever man", guess you are insisting on being right when your just clearly wrong I guess...

His enemies conspired against him and convinced the Roman's to kill him.

All in God's will and plan for Him (Jesus) and He knew that all very fully and very well...

And He did not hate that nor God either, unless your going to suggest that He did...?

He spoke very harshly against these same enemies.

Yes, He did, but that does not mean He "hated" them, or considered them sworn "enemies" either...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

He knew his enemies while he was here and those who would come in the future. The fact is he has enemies and when he returns he will kill many of them. These are not the "enemies" he said to love.



His own words show no love for them.




His enemies conspired against him and convinced the Roman's to kill him. He spoke very harshly against these same enemies.

He did not come to condemn or judge the world at that time, which means He hated no one and loved everyone at that time, etc...

God Bless!

 

[Carl Emerson]

Is killing your enemies the same as loving them?

Ananias is a New Covenant example of being Killed for lying against the Holy Spirit.

This contrasts with Judas who did similar if not worse but was not even rebuked.

There remains some mystery in this area, but having encountered the Holiness of God I never question His prerogative to act as He does - we are not His judge.

 

[Toro]

Put simply.

God had a plan.... (OT Law)

Man took the given law and... made an idol of it. Twisting its intent..in more ways than one. (Mans twisting of the intent of OT law, produced the Pharisees for example)

God had a plan.....(NT Forgiveness and instruction by example through Jesus)

Man took that forgiveness and example and once again..many took the intention of God and twisted it for their own purpose.

God's intent... has remained the same... sadly... so has the hearts of most of humanity. Because the hearts of all men are wicked... unless our heart is changed by Christ... our feet will always be quick to run to wickedness and a means to justify that wickedness... just as Adam and Eve did.

All God wants is for His children, His creation to be in His image... NOT the image of the prideful wicked one that has deceived and destroyed from the beginning.

 

[prodromos]

There's a difference between allowing us to do things incorrectly to show that they don't work, and condoning it. Ecclesiastes condones hate.

The Hebrew word for "hate" can have very broad meaning.

So Jacob went in to Rachel also, and he loved Rachel more than Leah, and served Laban for another seven years.
When the Lord saw that Leah was hated, he opened her womb; but Rachel was barren. And Leah conceived and bore a son, and she called his name Reuben; for she said, “Because the Lord has looked upon my affliction; surely now my husband will love me.” She conceived again and bore a son, and said, “Because the Lord has heard that I am hated, he has given me this son also”; and she called his name Simeon. Again she conceived and bore a son, and said, “Now this time my husband will be joined to me, because I have borne him three sons”; therefore his name was called Levi. And she conceived again and bore a son, and said, “This time I will praise the Lord”; therefore she called his name Judah; then she ceased bearing.​

In the context of Genesis 29, "hated" means "loved less" or "disliked", because if Jacob truly hated Leah it is unlikely that he would have been sharing a bed with her, yet she bears him 4 sons. I've heard Hebrew described as a very black and white language, it does not have vocabulary for shades of grey which therefore have to be inferred.

 

[ewq1938]

In the context of Genesis 29, "hated" means "loved less" or "disliked"

The Hebrew word does not mean that. Can you prove what you are saying by using the actual Hebrew word and definition?

 

[LightLoveHope]

There's a difference between allowing us to do things incorrectly to show that they don't work, and condoning it. Ecclesiastes condones hate.

Hate is not a bad thing.
Jesus said we should hate those we love if they come between us and God.
Emotions are messages of context and reaction.

The OT is civil nation building in a chaotic world of no morality and child sacrifice. Jesus is emotional responses to personal context. One can forgive a murderer and still see justice with penal law. Repentance is about restoration and putting things right.

When it is murder, this is limited to remorse.

We can therefore hate sinful actions and the attitude that supports them while understanding the slavery that justifies it's existence and seeing but by grace do we walk there.

 

[ewq1938]

Ananias is a New Covenant example of being Killed for lying against the Holy Spirit.

This contrasts with Judas who did similar if not worse but was not even rebuked.

There remains some mystery in this area, but having encountered the Holiness of God I never question His prerogative to act as He does - we are not His judge.

So you can kill people who are your enemies and still be loving them?

 

[prodromos]

The Hebrew word does not mean that. Can you prove what you are saying by using the actual Hebrew word and definition?

I've demonstrated its meaning by context.

 

[Carl Emerson]

I suggest you hand that question upstairs - you seem to be struggling with what God does, so ask Him.

 

[fhansen]

There's a difference between allowing us to do things incorrectly to show that they don't work, and condoning it. Ecclesiastes condones hate.

It's ok to hate evil; we should, in fact. Love demands it.

 

[Neogaia777]

It's ok to hate evil; we should, in fact. Love demands it.

We are to "shun" or hate evil, but not "shun" evil and wicked people, which basically means to "hate the sin and/but love the sinner", etc...

But not to ever get two confused, or twisted, lest we sin or fall into sin, or become an evil and/or wicked one ourselves, etc...

Cause that's the way Jesus did it, etc...

But He did not hate evil people, etc, but loved them (all), etc...

Spent time with them and around them, etc, but did not sin nor fall into sin, etc...

And in fact delivered (helped) some, if not very many of them, out of it/them (or their sins), etc...

If that's not love I don't know what love is...

God Bless!

 

[ewq1938]

I've demonstrated its meaning by context.

You haven't even bothered to show what the word means in the Hebrew. You only shared what you believe it means.

 

[Neogaia777]

We are to "shun" or hate evil, but not "shun" evil and wicked people, which basically means to "hate the sin and/but love the sinner", etc...

But not to ever get two confused, or twisted, lest we sin or fall into sin, or become an evil and/or wicked one ourselves, etc...

Cause that's the way Jesus did it, etc...

But He did not hate evil people, etc, but loved them (all), etc...

Spent time with them and around them, etc, but did not sin nor fall into sin, etc...

And in fact delivered (helped) some, if not very many of them, out of it/them (or their sins), etc...

If that's not love I don't know what love is...

God Bless!

And the number one reason Jesus did not hang around the Pharisees much or hang out with them much, is because they would not admit they were sick and in need of a physician, but not because he did not love them...

They were the "hardest around" like I said just a little bit ago, (post #21, top of the page) and that's why Jesus dealt with or handled them in the way that He did, and/but not because He did not love them, no not at all, for He actually loved them very, very much...

God Bless!