THE NATURE AND TIMING OF THE RESURRECTION IN BIBLE

[LittleLambofJesus]

What is the nature and timing of the Resurrection in the NT?

The Nature of the Resurrection | Glory (Religion) | Resurrection Of Jesus

The enemies of fulfilled eschatology make their biggest attacks in this very area - resurrection of the dead and the nature of it.
It doesn’t seem to bother the proponents of this view that the term “resurrection of the flesh” or “resurrection of the body” never appears in the bible. Nonetheless they make this a point of fellowship and attack us on this ground believing that this is our weakest point and most dangerous area.

We believe that this topic as well as any other issue regarding fulfilled eschatology can easily be defending from Scriptures.
Some time back on an internet forum there was a debate that was taking place between Preterist Dr. Kelly Birks and Amillienialist Gene Cook where it was agreed upon by both sides as to the topic which was how the Lord viewed the timing of his parousia. Little into the debate Mr. Cook took it upon himself to change the topic to the nature of the resurrection if somehow that would be how he would defend his view of the timing texts.

It was because Mr. Cook thought that this would be our weak point and his strong point that he diverted the issue. He made it sound as though it was necessary to talk nature regarding the resurrection to show how Jesus viewed the timing of his coming.

It is true that timing and nature are related and that how one views one of these reflects how one interprets the other. We aim to show in this article that the nature of the resurrection must be subjugated to the timing texts as we will give biblical support for this. We will also show that despite the opposition in their attempts to divert all discussion to this topic, it is not our weak point and is actually the very heart of what we believe to be the support of our position.

The question that we need to ask when looking at the resurrection of the dead and its nature is this.
Is there a biblical basis to interpret passages that speak of life from the dead or resurrection as something other than being raised physically from biological death?

We are fully aware that some passages could mean nothing else but a coming to life back from biological death such as the resurrection of our Lord. But what about the examples in the rest of Scripture?

There is one verse that is overlooked by those on both sides of this issue regarding how the disciples would have viewed the phrase “resurrection of the dead” or “rise from the dead.”
The passage is in Mark 9:9-10. After the Mount of Transfiguration Jesus comes down and says this:

"And as they came down from the mountain, he charged them that they should tell no man what things they had seen, till the Son of man were risen from the dead"

And they kept that saying with themselves, questioning one with another what the rising from the dead should mean.

Now what was in the minds of the disciples that would make them even wonder what rise from the dead could mean? Would anyone today have a problem understanding the phrase if someone told them they would rise from the dead?

We don’t know what they were thinking but we do know they must have had understood the phrase as meaning more than one thing else why ask the question. Could they be thinking of a passage in the Old Testament that clearly taught something else? Are there any Old Testament examples that speak of a resurrection that the meaning is quite otherwise?
This is important if we are to let Scripture interpret scripture as well as harmonize the timing texts on both the second coming and the related resurrection of the dead.

The answer is an obvious yes and one such example is Ezekiel 37.
Here is a description of bones rising up and flesh and sinew coming upon them as their spirit is put into them. But what does this speak of? Its first application is Israel coming back to the land after the Babylonian captivity. The New Testament application of this varies depending upon one’s eschatological view. Some would say this secondary application is an actual physical resurrection such as will be experienced by God’s people in the so called rapture. Others see the application of this as spiritual which is describing the regeneration of the sinner via the Holy Spirit under the preaching of the gospel.
And some even say it is Israel coming back into the land in 1948.
=============================
I actually have a thread on the "Valley of Bones"

WHAT ABOUT EZEKIEL 37 "VALLEY OF BONES"

Ezekiel 37:
10 So I prophesied as He commanded me, and breath came into them, and they lived, and stood upon their feet, an exceedingly great army.
11 Then He said to me, "Son of 'adam! these bones are the whole House of Israel. They indeed say, 'Our bones are dry, our hope is lost, and we ourselves are cut off!'

Luke 2:34
And Simon blesses them and said toward Mariam His mother,
"behold! this-One is set/lying into a Fall and Resurrection/standing-up<386> of many in the Israel, and into a Sign being spoken against"

Resurrection and Rapture

Revelation 11:
9 And are observing out of the peoples and tribes and tongues and nations their bodies three and half days and their bodies not they suffer to be placed into a tomb.
11 And after the three days and a half, a breath of life out of the God entered in them and they stand upon their feet and great fear falls upon the ones observing them.
12 And they hear a great Voice out of the Heaven saying to them "ascend ye here!" And they ascended into the heaven in the cloud
15 And the seventh Messenger trumpets and became great voices/sounds in the heaven saying "became the Kingdom of the world of the Lord of us and of the Christ of Him and He shall be reigning into the ages of the Ages.

Revelation 20:5
The rest of the dead not live until should be being finished<5055> the thousand years,
This is the first resurrection<386>

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

What is the nature and timing of the Resurrection in the NT?

The Nature of the Resurrection | Glory (Religion) | Resurrection Of Jesus

The enemies of fulfilled eschatology make their biggest attacks in this very area - resurrection of the dead and the nature of it.
It doesn’t seem to bother the proponents of this view that the term “resurrection of the flesh” or “resurrection of the body” never appears in the bible. Nonetheless they make this a point of fellowship and attack us on this ground believing that this is our weakest point and most dangerous area.

We believe that this topic as well as any other issue regarding fulfilled eschatology can easily be defending from Scriptures.
Some time back on an internet forum there was a debate that was taking place between Preterist Dr. Kelly Birks and Amillienialist Gene Cook where it was agreed upon by both sides as to the topic which was how the Lord viewed the timing of his parousia. Little into the debate Mr. Cook took it upon himself to change the topic to the nature of the resurrection if somehow that would be how he would defend his view of the timing texts.

It was because Mr. Cook thought that this would be our weak point and his strong point that he diverted the issue. He made it sound as though it was necessary to talk nature regarding the resurrection to show how Jesus viewed the timing of his coming.

It is true that timing and nature are related and that how one views one of these reflects how one interprets the other. We aim to show in this article that the nature of the resurrection must be subjugated to the timing texts as we will give biblical support for this. We will also show that despite the opposition in their attempts to divert all discussion to this topic, it is not our weak point and is actually the very heart of what we believe to be the support of our position.

The question that we need to ask when looking at the resurrection of the dead and its nature is this.
Is there a biblical basis to interpret passages that speak of life from the dead or resurrection as something other than being raised physically from biological death?

We are fully aware that some passages could mean nothing else but a coming to life back from biological death such as the resurrection of our Lord. But what about the examples in the rest of Scripture?

There is one verse that is overlooked by those on both sides of this issue regarding how the disciples would have viewed the phrase “resurrection of the dead” or “rise from the dead.”
The passage is in Mark 9:9-10. After the Mount of Transfiguration Jesus comes down and says this:

"And as they came down from the mountain, he charged them that they should tell no man what things they had seen, till the Son of man were risen from the dead"

And they kept that saying with themselves, questioning one with another what the rising from the dead should mean.

Now what was in the minds of the disciples that would make them even wonder what rise from the dead could mean? Would anyone today have a problem understanding the phrase if someone told them they would rise from the dead?

We don’t know what they were thinking but we do know they must have had understood the phrase as meaning more than one thing else why ask the question. Could they be thinking of a passage in the Old Testament that clearly taught something else? Are there any Old Testament examples that speak of a resurrection that the meaning is quite otherwise?
This is important if we are to let Scripture interpret scripture as well as harmonize the timing texts on both the second coming and the related resurrection of the dead.

The answer is an obvious yes and one such example is Ezekiel 37.
Here is a description of bones rising up and flesh and sinew coming upon them as their spirit is put into them. But what does this speak of? Its first application is Israel coming back to the land after the Babylonian captivity. The New Testament application of this varies depending upon one’s eschatological view. Some would say this secondary application is an actual physical resurrection such as will be experienced by God’s people in the so called rapture. Others see the application of this as spiritual which is describing the regeneration of the sinner via the Holy Spirit under the preaching of the gospel.
And some even say it is Israel coming back into the land in 1948.
=============================
I actually have a thread on the "Valley of Bones"

WHAT ABOUT EZEKIEL 37 "VALLEY OF BONES"

Ezekiel 37:
10 So I prophesied as He commanded me, and breath came into them, and they lived, and stood upon their feet, an exceedingly great army.
11 Then He said to me, "Son of 'adam! these bones are the whole House of Israel. They indeed say, 'Our bones are dry, our hope is lost, and we ourselves are cut off!'

Luke 2:34
And Simon blesses them and said toward Mariam His mother,
"behold! this-One is set/lying into a Fall and Resurrection/standing-up<386> of many in the Israel, and into a Sign being spoken against"

Resurrection and Rapture

Revelation 11:
9 And are observing out of the peoples and tribes and tongues and nations their bodies three and half days and their bodies not they suffer to be placed into a tomb.
11 And after the three days and a half, a breath of life out of the God entered in them and they stand upon their feet and great fear falls upon the ones observing them.
12 And they hear a great Voice out of the Heaven saying to them "ascend ye here!" And they ascended into the heaven in the cloud
15 And the seventh Messenger trumpets and became great voices/sounds in the heaven saying "became the Kingdom of the world of the Lord of us and of the Christ of Him and He shall be reigning into the ages of the Ages.

Revelation 20:5
The rest of the dead not live until should be being finished<5055> the thousand years,
This is the first resurrection<386>

The answer is quite simple for those who are not so heavenly minded that they are at least some earthly use...

Resurrection from the dead is a miracle of God and cannot be explained from anything we can know. The Resurrection of Christ was an absolute miracle, and so the resurrection of believers when it happens will also be miracles. As you have pointed out, the book of Revelation gives the sequence of events fairly clearly.

 

[keras]

The Bible is very clear: the resurrection into Eternal life does not happen until after the Millennium. Revelation 20:11-15
Only when the Book of life is opened, is immortality conferred on those whose names are found in that Book.

There have been resurrections from the dead before; Lazarus, the boy Elijah revived, and there will be more when Jesus Returns; Revelation 20:4, those martyred during the GT.
But they weren't and are not made immortal, they could and did- die again, however; over them their second death has no power, Revelation 20:6 and when they stand before God on His Great White Throne, with everyone who has ever lived, they will automatically receive immortality.
The interesting prophecy of Paul's in 1 Corinthians 15:50-56 says some will never die. They will be people alive when the GWT takes place and by their faithful trust in God, their names are in the Book of Life, so they are changed into immortality then.

 

[BABerean2]

The enemies of fulfilled eschatology make their biggest attacks in this very area - resurrection of the dead and the nature of it.
It doesn’t seem to bother the proponents of this view that the term “resurrection of the flesh” or “resurrection of the body” never appears in the bible. Nonetheless they make this a point of fellowship and attack us on this ground believing that this is our weakest point and most dangerous area.

The following rules of this forum include a future resurrection of the dead.


Statement of Faith

The Nicene Creed

We believe in (Romans 10:8-10; 1John 4:15)
ONE God, (Deuteronomy 6:4, Ephesians 4:6)
the Father (Matthew 6:9)
Almighty, (Exodus 6:3)
Maker of Heaven and Earth, (Genesis 1:1)
and of all things visible and invisible. (Colossians 1:15-16)
And in ONE Lord Jesus Christ, (Acts 11:17)
the Son of God, (Mathew 14:33; 16:16)
the Only-Begotten, (John 1:18; 3:16)
Begotten of the Father before all ages. (John 1:2)
Light of Light; (Psalm 27:1; John 8:12; Matthew 17:2,5)
True God of True God; (John 17:1-5)
Begotten, not made; (John 1:18)
of one essence with the Father (John 10:30)
by whom all things were made; (Hebrews 1:1-2)
Who for us men and for our salvation (1Timothy 2:4-5)
came down from Heaven, (John 6:33,35)
and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary, (Luke 1:35)
and became man. (John 1:14)
And was crucified for us (Mark 15:25; 1Cointhians 15:3)
under Pontius Pilate, (John 19:6)
and suffered, (Mark 8:31)
and was buried. (Luke 23:53; 1Corinthians 15:4)
And the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures. (Luke 24:1 1Corinthians 15:4)
And ascended into Heaven, (Luke 24:51; Acts 1:10)
and sits at the right hand of the Father. (Mark 16:19; Acts 7:55)
And He shall come again with glory (Matthew 24:27)
to judge the living and the dead; (Acts 10:42; 2Timothy 4:1)
whose Kingdom shall have no end. (2 Peter 1:11)
And in the Holy Spirit, (John 14:26)
the Lord, (Acts 5:3-4)
the Giver of Life, (Genesis 1:2)
Who proceeds from the Father; (John 15:26)
Who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified; (Matthew 3:16-17)
Who spoke through the prophets. (1 Samuel 19:20 ; Ezekiel 11:5,13) In one, (Matthew 16: 18)
holy, (1 Peter 2:5,9)
catholic*, (Mark 16:15)
and apostolic Church. (Acts 2:42; Ephesians 2:19-22)
I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins**. (Ephesians 4:5; Acts 2:38)
I look for the resurrection of the dead, (John 11:24; 1Corinthians 15:12-49; Hebrews 6:2; Revelation 20:5)
and the life of the world to come. (Mark 10:29-30)
AMEN. (Psalm 106:48)


When you use the term "fulfilled eschatology" are you denying a future bodily resurrection, and judgment of the dead?

.

 

[DavidPT]

The Bible is very clear: the resurrection into Eternal life does not happen until after the Millennium. Revelation 20:11-15
Only when the Book of life is opened, is immortality conferred on those whose names are found in that Book.

There have been resurrections from the dead before; Lazarus, the boy Elijah revived, and there will be more when Jesus Returns; Revelation 20:4, those martyred during the GT.
But they weren't and are not made immortal, they could and did- die again, however; over them their second death has no power, Revelation 20:6 and when they stand before God on His Great White Throne, with everyone who has ever lived, they will automatically receive immortality.
The interesting prophecy of Paul's in 1 Corinthians 15:50-56 says some will never die. They will be people alive when the GWT takes place and by their faithful trust in God, their names are in the Book of Life, so they are changed into immortality then.

In order to even make any sense of your view proposed here, the millennium would need to precede the 2nd coming, not follow it. But even then it still fails to make perfect sense. In the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump, that is when saints put on immortality. That event obviously precedes the event of the great white throne judgment. Do saints put on immortality twice then? At the last trump, then at the the great white throne judgment as well?

 

[JLB777]

It doesn’t seem to bother the proponents of this view that the term “resurrection of the flesh” or “resurrection of the body” never appears in the bible. Nonetheless they make this a point of fellowship and attack us on this ground believing that this is our weakest point and most dangerous area.

The Bible is clear.

The resurrection of the dead refers to the persons body.

• So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption.

But someone will say, “How are the dead raised up? And with what body do they come?” Foolish one, what you sow is not made alive unless it dies. And what you sow, you do not sow that body that shall be, but mere grain—perhaps wheat or some other grain. But God gives it a body as He pleases, and to each seed its own body.
All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of animals, another of fish, and another of birds.
There are also celestial bodies and terrestrial bodies; but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. There is one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differs from another star in glory.
So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. And so it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual. The first man was of the earth, made of dust; the second Man is the Lord from heaven. As was the man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly Man, so also are those who are heavenly. And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man. Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”
1 Corinthians 15:35-54


Please read the Bible and stop promoting the false doctrine of Preterism.



JLB

 

[Dixibehr50]

The Bible is very clear: the resurrection into Eternal life does not happen until after the Millennium. Revelation 20:11-15
Only when the Book of life is opened, is immortality conferred on those whose names are found in that Book.

There have been resurrections from the dead before; Lazarus, the boy Elijah revived, and there will be more when Jesus Returns; Revelation 20:4, those martyred during the GT.
But they weren't and are not made immortal, they could and did- die again, however; over them their second death has no power, Revelation 20:6 and when they stand before God on His Great White Throne, with everyone who has ever lived, they will automatically receive immortality.
The interesting prophecy of Paul's in 1 Corinthians 15:50-56 says some will never die. They will be people alive when the GWT takes place and by their faithful trust in God, their names are in the Book of Life, so they are changed into immortality then.

Except there is no such thing as a literal earthly millennium.

Lazarus and the boy you mentioned were not resurrected. These were temporary resuscitations.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

What is the nature and timing of the Resurrection in the NT?

The Nature of the Resurrection | Glory (Religion) | Resurrection Of Jesus

The enemies of fulfilled eschatology make their biggest attacks in this very area - resurrection of the dead and the nature of it.
It doesn’t seem to bother the proponents of this view that the term “resurrection of the flesh” or “resurrection of the body” never appears in the bible. Nonetheless they make this a point of fellowship and attack us on this ground believing that this is our weakest point and most dangerous area.

We believe that this topic as well as any other issue regarding fulfilled eschatology can easily be defending from Scriptures.
Some time back on an internet forum there was a debate that was taking place between Preterist Dr. Kelly Birks and Amillienialist Gene Cook where it was agreed upon by both sides as to the topic which was how the Lord viewed the timing of his parousia. Little into the debate Mr. Cook took it upon himself to change the topic to the nature of the resurrection if somehow that would be how he would defend his view of the timing texts.

It was because Mr. Cook thought that this would be our weak point and his strong point that he diverted the issue. He made it sound as though it was necessary to talk nature regarding the resurrection to show how Jesus viewed the timing of his coming.

It is true that timing and nature are related and that how one views one of these reflects how one interprets the other. We aim to show in this article that the nature of the resurrection must be subjugated to the timing texts as we will give biblical support for this. We will also show that despite the opposition in their attempts to divert all discussion to this topic, it is not our weak point and is actually the very heart of what we believe to be the support of our position.

Please feel free to furnish any commentaries on this this topic.

Continued from previous site:

The Nature of the Resurrection | Glory (Religion) | Resurrection Of Jesus

Whatever one’s view is on this, the fact remains of its first application and that should be enough to see that there is at least one such example of a resurrection described with a much deeper meaning. Lets look at a few New Testament passages.

Luke 15:24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.

Here is an example of the prodigal son that shows a restoration to a former place that is described as being brought back from the dead.

Romans 11: 15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?


Without getting into an exegesis of Romans 11 at this point we just want to point out that this example of Paul’s here has nothing to do with physical bodily resurrection but a restoration of some kind to unbelieving Jews coming back into the olive tree.

Romans 6: 4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

Here is a passage that speaks of the believers being raised in the likeness of Christ’s resurrection. This corresponds with such passages as Ephesians 2 and Colossians 3 where we are said to have been raised with Christ. This resurrection is obviously a spiritual one since it is clear to all that at the time of Paul writing these things no one had as yet been resurrected physically with Christ.

Then there is this one that needs to be mentioned:
Phil 3:11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
16 Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.

In this passage as the underscored words will point out, Paul is not speaking of attaining to a bodily resurrection for if that was the case he had attained to it to some degree as verse 16 points out. We will not take the time to exegete this passage and speak specifically of what Paul was speaking of we only want to show what he was NOT speaking of. It is clear that is was not a resurrection of the physical flesh and blood body out of biological death.

The final text we want to look at is in Revelation 20:4-5

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
========================================
To be continued...........

 

[BABerean2]

What is the nature and timing of the Resurrection in the NT?

The Nature of the Resurrection | Glory (Religion) | Resurrection Of Jesus

Your link above contains a reference to "full preterism".
Is that what you are promoting here?

.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Your link above contains a reference to "full preterism".
Is that what you are promoting here?
.

Hello BAB.
Do you yourself have any links to commentaries or your own comments concerning the topic of the Resurrection?
If not, please quit derailing my thread..........

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Please feel free to furnish any commentaries on this this topic.

Continued from previous site:

The Nature of the Resurrection | Glory (Religion) | Resurrection Of Jesus

The final text we want to look at is in Revelation 20:4-5

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
========================================
To be continued...........

Continued...........

The Nature of the Resurrection | Glory (Religion) | Resurrection Of Jesus

Now the first resurrection mentioned here to many amillenialists is the spiritual resurrection the same one they believe is described in John 5:25. What is interesting about this passage is that those that hold to the premillenial position use this passage as the basis to call those holding to the amillenial position Hymanaeus heretics the same thing many amillenialists call us.
We have experienced this as an amillenialist for over 20 years and ironically am now called it by those holding to our former position.

The fact is that 2 Timothy 2:18 does not mention which resurrection that was being said was “past already.” For those that hold to a past fulfillment of Revelation 20:4-5 to call us Hymanaeus heretics would be comical if it was not such a serious charge. When one looks at the text in 2Timothy it would not be evident at first glance what resurrection is being referred to whether the one amills says is past being spiritual resurrection at regeneration or the so called future resurrection of the flesh and blood body at the end of the cosmological world.

But there is one thing that our opponents have overlooked in trying to decipher what resurrection is being spoken of in the text. It is quite easy to discern by asking this question.

What type of resurrection would more likely be possible to fool someone into thinking has happened before its time- one that is spiritual and comes without observation or one that is a grave splitting, cosmological world ending event in which every grave in the world will open up?

We will let the reader ask in the theater of their own conscience what is more likely to be the case.

We are well aware that the above examples by themselves do not conclusively prove that the “resurrection of the dead” does not mean resurrection of the same body that went in the grave.
But when the above examples are considered in a study of this topic along with 3 additional passages we will now look at- the conclusion, we believe, is obvious.

The first verses in 1Corinthians 15:35-37
35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

The part we would like the reader to conside is what we have underscored. Those holding to a future bodily resurrection believe that the body spoken of in these verses is the physical flesh and blood body that went in the grave.
But notice what is said in verse 37. The body sown (physical death?) is NOT the body that shall be. Could anything be plainer if the body in the text is the physical body of the believer that went into the grave?

Note our next verse to consider which is a few verses down from this one -verse 44

It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
Is it not quite clear that there this is a spiritual body that is different from the natural body? Can one deny that in this text there is clearly a distinction from what is sown and what is raised?
We have often asked those that hold to the same body being raised if the exact same body comes out of the grave that went in? Such as an aborted baby in the womb or Siamese twins joined at the head or a person deformed from birth.

The problem is if it is a bodily resurrection exactly the same as His resurrection –in the likeness of his resurrection- then it must come out as laid in the grave as His was. The ceases to be a problem when we realize that His body was the only one promising not to see corruption.
Our body is raised a spiritual body so as our text above states is not the body that was sown.
==============================

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Dupe Post........

 

[BABerean2]

Hello BAB.
Do you yourself have any links to commentaries or your own comments concerning the topic of the Resurrection?
If not, please quit derailing my thread..........

Why did you not answer the question?

If you are going to promote "full-preterism", please be honest about it.

.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Continued...........

The problem is if it is a bodily resurrection exactly the same as His resurrection –in the likeness of his resurrection- then it must come out as laid in the grave as His was. The ceases to be a problem when we realize that His body was the only one promising not to see corruption.
Our body is raised a spiritual body so as our text above states is not the body that was sown.
==============================

Moving on......
Please feel free to critique the views of this site and/or provide links to sites that you feel are relevant to the topic of this thread.
"THE NATURE AND TIMING OF THE RESURRECTION IN BIBLE"

The Nature of the Resurrection | Glory (Religion) | Resurrection Of Jesus

The third verse we want to quickly look at to show the distinction from what is put off and what is put on is 2 Corinthians 5:1-2.

1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

Now if Paul is talking about putting off of the physical body, which is what those holding to a future resurrection of the body believe this is talking about, then we ask this simple question:

Where does the new body that Paul was waiting anticipating come from? the ground where the other was sown or from heaven?

When one considers these three verses and the examples given above regarding how the bible uses the terms raised from the dead and resurrection of the dead what conclusion can one come to regarding the body that shall be?
Again we leave it to the reader to a answer in their own conscience without prejudice.
In the light of what we have just seen we now need to ask another question.

Is there biblical examples in the OT that give lay the framework for a hermeneutic that does not take the timing passages seriously and gives us liberty to stretch them to the point of no relevance to those to whom it was originally said?

When we read in the Old Testament that something was “nigh at hand” was there any reason that those to whom it was said would not take it to mean just that?
There is no example in the OT where something was said to be near or nigh at hand that was not at least in some form or another fulfilled in the lifetime of those to whom it was said.
One such passages that some might like to use is Joel 2 where it says judgment was “nigh at hand.”

Now since later in Joel 2 it is clearly talking about the time recorded in Acts 2 and then later to AD 70 some like to point out that this is an example of a timing passage not to be taken literally. But this passage’s first fulfillment was when God brought the Assyrians against Israel.
This is a common thing we see in the OT where a passage has a historical fulfillment and an application to find its fulfillment in the New Testament.
If there is such a passage that cannot be applied to some imminent event then it is an exception to the general pattern in the unfolding of redemptive history.
====================================
"THE TIME IS NIGH AT HAND" AND "COMING IN SWIFTNESS" REVELATION 1st century Jerusalem 70ad

Revelation 1:1
An-un-veiling of Jesus Christ, which gives to Him, the GOD, to show to the bond-servants of Him, which-things is binding to be becoming In/en <1722> Swiftness/tacei <5034>.
Revelation 1:3
Blessed/happy the one reading and the ones hearing the words of the Prophecy and keepings in it having been written/gegrammena <1125> (5772),
For the Season/Time<2540> is nigh<1451>.

Revelation 22:6
And said to me: "These the Words Faithful and True. And Lord, the GOD of the spirits of the holy Prophets commissions the messenger of Him to show to the bond-servents of Him which-things is binding to be becoming In/en <1722> Swiftness/tacei <5034>.
Revelation 22:10
And he is saying to me "no thou should be sealing the Words of the Prophecy of the Scroll, this.
For the Season/Time is nigh
================================

 

[keras]

In order to even make any sense of your view proposed here, the millennium would need to precede the 2nd coming, not follow it. But even then it still fails to make perfect sense. In the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump, that is when saints put on immortality. That event obviously precedes the event of the great white throne judgment. Do saints put on immortality twice then? At the last trump, then at the the great white throne judgment as well?

Your mistake is in believing the false teachers who say that Paul prophecy in 1 Cor 15:50-56 happens at the Return.
It will happen at the Last Trump, which is not the Seventh Trumpet and obviously cannot take place until the New Earth, Revelation 21:1, when God's Plan for mankind is completed.
Proved by how it is only then that Death will be no more. 1 Corinthians 15:34b, Revelation 21:4

You say that the Saints 'obviously' receive immortality before the GWT Judgment.
The Bible says that immortality is only conferred to those whose names are Written in the Book of Life. That Book is opened at the GWT, not before.

 

[keras]

Except there is no such thing as a literal earthly millennium.

Lazarus and the boy you mentioned were not resurrected. These were temporary resuscitations.

You contradict Revelation 20, where it plainly tells us, six times; that there will be a 1000 year reign of King Jesus.

Lazarus was DEAD, John 11:14. The boy was DEAD, 1 Kings 17:22

On this forum, we hold to what the Bible actually says. Other theories and ideas are rejected.

 

[Dixibehr50]

You contradict Revelation 20, where it plainly tells us, six times; that there will be a 1000 year reign of King Jesus.

Lazarus was DEAD, John 11:14. The boy was DEAD, 1 Kings 17:22

On this forum, we hold to what the Bible actually says. Other theories and ideas are rejected.

And in Psalms and in one of the letters of St. Peter (in the context of the return of the Lord, no less), the Bible actually says that we are not to necessarily take 1000 years literally.

And while the Bible actually says that Lazarus and the boy were dead, it NEVER actually says that they were resurrected the way we will all rise on the Last Day.

That's why it was merely a temporary resuscitation for them.

Or is it just to YOU that the Word of the Lord has come?

 

[JLB777]

Please feel free to furnish any commentaries on this this topic.

Continued from previous site:

The Nature of the Resurrection | Glory (Religion) | Resurrection Of Jesus

Whatever one’s view is on this, the fact remains of its first application and that should be enough to see that there is at least one such example of a resurrection described with a much deeper meaning. Lets look at a few New Testament passages.

Luke 15:24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.

Here is an example of the prodigal son that shows a restoration to a former place that is described as being brought back from the dead.

Romans 11: 15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?


Without getting into an exegesis of Romans 11 at this point we just want to point out that this example of Paul’s here has nothing to do with physical bodily resurrection but a restoration of some kind to unbelieving Jews coming back into the olive tree.

Romans 6: 4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

Here is a passage that speaks of the believers being raised in the likeness of Christ’s resurrection. This corresponds with such passages as Ephesians 2 and Colossians 3 where we are said to have been raised with Christ. This resurrection is obviously a spiritual one since it is clear to all that at the time of Paul writing these things no one had as yet been resurrected physically with Christ.

Then there is this one that needs to be mentioned:
Phil 3:11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
16 Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.

In this passage as the underscored words will point out, Paul is not speaking of attaining to a bodily resurrection for if that was the case he had attained to it to some degree as verse 16 points out. We will not take the time to exegete this passage and speak specifically of what Paul was speaking of we only want to show what he was NOT speaking of. It is clear that is was not a resurrection of the physical flesh and blood body out of biological death.

The final text we want to look at is in Revelation 20:4-5

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
========================================
To be continued...........

Are you teaching God’s people that the resurrection is past.

• who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past;

And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort, who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some.
2 Timothy 2:17-18


If you have strayed from the truth, then please turn back, and be restored to Christ, or your eternal soul is in danger of being lost.



Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20


When a brother teaches false doctrine and transgresses the doctrine of Christ, they no longer have Christ.

• does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God.

Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9



The resurrection is on the last Day, at His coming.


Your dead body will be resurrected.


The Context: The Resurrection of the Dead


So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 1 Corinthians 15:42-44

• So also is the resurrection of the dead.
• The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption.
• It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory.
• It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power.
• It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.
• There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

JLB

 

[DavidPT]

Your mistake is in believing the false teachers who say that Paul prophecy in 1 Cor 15:50-56 happens at the Return.
It will happen at the Last Trump, which is not the Seventh Trumpet and obviously cannot take place until the New Earth, Revelation 21:1, when God's Plan for mankind is completed.
Proved by how it is only then that Death will be no more. 1 Corinthians 15:34b, Revelation 21:4

You say that the Saints 'obviously' receive immortality before the GWT Judgment.
The Bible says that immortality is only conferred to those whose names are Written in the Book of Life. That Book is opened at the GWT, not before.

I don't know which false teachers you think I am listening to, the fact I am basing my conclusions on my own reading of the texts involved.

There is no last trump taking place a thousand years or so after the return of Christ. The last trump is the return of Christ, as in His 2nd and final coming. That is when saints put on immortality, in the twinkling of an eye according to the text. If they already do that at the 2nd coming, put on immortality, then do that again at the great white throne judgment, how is one to make sense out of any of that? That equals putting on immortality twice.

There is no way around it, regardless when one thinks the thousand years are, the events concerning the last trump in 1 Corinthians 15:50-57, this precedes the event of the great white throne judgment.


1 Corinthians 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

In context----afterward they that are Christ's at his coming---this is referring to those in 1 Corinthians 15:50-57. And verse 23 clearly indicates the resurrection of the dead involving those that are Christ's, IOW the saved dead, that this takes place at His coming, IOW at His 2nd and final coming. Therefore 1 Corinthians 15:50-57 should be interpreted with 1 Corinthians 15:20-23 in mind---like such.

1 Corinthians 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
1 Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Douggg]

What is the nature and timing of the Resurrection in the NT?

The Nature of the Resurrection | Glory (Religion) | Resurrection Of Jesus

The enemies of fulfilled eschatology make their biggest attacks in this very area - resurrection of the dead and the nature of it.
It doesn’t seem to bother the proponents of this view that the term “resurrection of the flesh” or “resurrection of the body” never appears in the bible. Nonetheless they make this a point of fellowship and attack us on this ground believing that this is our weakest point and most dangerous area.

We believe that this topic as well as any other issue regarding fulfilled eschatology can easily be defending from Scriptures.
Some time back on an internet forum there was a debate that was taking place between Preterist Dr. Kelly Birks and Amillienialist Gene Cook where it was agreed upon by both sides as to the topic which was how the Lord viewed the timing of his parousia. Little into the debate Mr. Cook took it upon himself to change the topic to the nature of the resurrection if somehow that would be how he would defend his view of the timing texts.

It was because Mr. Cook thought that this would be our weak point and his strong point that he diverted the issue. He made it sound as though it was necessary to talk nature regarding the resurrection to show how Jesus viewed the timing of his coming.

It is true that timing and nature are related and that how one views one of these reflects how one interprets the other. We aim to show in this article that the nature of the resurrection must be subjugated to the timing texts as we will give biblical support for this. We will also show that despite the opposition in their attempts to divert all discussion to this topic, it is not our weak point and is actually the very heart of what we believe to be the support of our position.

The question that we need to ask when looking at the resurrection of the dead and its nature is this.
Is there a biblical basis to interpret passages that speak of life from the dead or resurrection as something other than being raised physically from biological death?

We are fully aware that some passages could mean nothing else but a coming to life back from biological death such as the resurrection of our Lord. But what about the examples in the rest of Scripture?

There is one verse that is overlooked by those on both sides of this issue regarding how the disciples would have viewed the phrase “resurrection of the dead” or “rise from the dead.”
The passage is in Mark 9:9-10. After the Mount of Transfiguration Jesus comes down and says this:

"And as they came down from the mountain, he charged them that they should tell no man what things they had seen, till the Son of man were risen from the dead"

And they kept that saying with themselves, questioning one with another what the rising from the dead should mean.

Now what was in the minds of the disciples that would make them even wonder what rise from the dead could mean? Would anyone today have a problem understanding the phrase if someone told them they would rise from the dead?

We don’t know what they were thinking but we do know they must have had understood the phrase as meaning more than one thing else why ask the question. Could they be thinking of a passage in the Old Testament that clearly taught something else? Are there any Old Testament examples that speak of a resurrection that the meaning is quite otherwise?
This is important if we are to let Scripture interpret scripture as well as harmonize the timing texts on both the second coming and the related resurrection of the dead.

The answer is an obvious yes and one such example is Ezekiel 37.
Here is a description of bones rising up and flesh and sinew coming upon them as their spirit is put into them. But what does this speak of? Its first application is Israel coming back to the land after the Babylonian captivity. The New Testament application of this varies depending upon one’s eschatological view. Some would say this secondary application is an actual physical resurrection such as will be experienced by God’s people in the so called rapture. Others see the application of this as spiritual which is describing the regeneration of the sinner via the Holy Spirit under the preaching of the gospel.
And some even say it is Israel coming back into the land in 1948.
=============================
I actually have a thread on the "Valley of Bones"

WHAT ABOUT EZEKIEL 37 "VALLEY OF BONES"

Ezekiel 37:
10 So I prophesied as He commanded me, and breath came into them, and they lived, and stood upon their feet, an exceedingly great army.
11 Then He said to me, "Son of 'adam! these bones are the whole House of Israel. They indeed say, 'Our bones are dry, our hope is lost, and we ourselves are cut off!'

Luke 2:34
And Simon blesses them and said toward Mariam His mother,
"behold! this-One is set/lying into a Fall and Resurrection/standing-up<386> of many in the Israel, and into a Sign being spoken against"

Resurrection and Rapture

Revelation 11:
9 And are observing out of the peoples and tribes and tongues and nations their bodies three and half days and their bodies not they suffer to be placed into a tomb.
11 And after the three days and a half, a breath of life out of the God entered in them and they stand upon their feet and great fear falls upon the ones observing them.
12 And they hear a great Voice out of the Heaven saying to them "ascend ye here!" And they ascended into the heaven in the cloud
15 And the seventh Messenger trumpets and became great voices/sounds in the heaven saying "became the Kingdom of the world of the Lord of us and of the Christ of Him and He shall be reigning into the ages of the Ages.

Revelation 20:5
The rest of the dead not live until should be being finished<5055> the thousand years,
This is the first resurrection<386>

Luke 21:34-36 = 1Thessalonians4:15-18. That resurrection coinciding with the rapture.

There are addtional group resurrections that follow. Revelation 20, resurrection of the martyred tribulation saints. Revelation 20, resurrection of all the remaining dead for the Great White Throne judgment. Stick with Jesus. Look up! your redemption draws near.