Avengers: Endgame

[HopeInJesusOnly]

Nobody thinks it's weird that Endgame includes a rapture scene?

And look at the titles of some of the shows on TV:

• The Leftovers
• Prodical Son (about the NYPD, strangely)
• The Bloodline
• The Sinner
• Watchmen
• History Erased
• Ancient Aliens (don't believe in aliens)
• Lucifer

Just seems like an explaining away of sorts.

Thoughts?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Nobody thinks it's weird that Endgame includes a rapture scene?

And look at the titles of some of the shows on TV:

• The Leftovers
• Prodical Son (about the NYPD, strangely)
• The Bloodline
• The Sinner
• Watchmen
• History Erased
• Ancient Aliens (don't believe in aliens)
• Lucifer

Just seems like an explaining away of sorts.

Thoughts?

There is that, but then there's also the parallels that atheists like to point out between the character and actions of Thanos and ... *ahem* ... God.

So, there's one more thing to think about over and above the Avenger's presentation of a kind of "reverse-rapture."

 

[grasping the after wind]

I think it much more odd that I haven't heard anyone say anything negative about that the movie's premise that the ends justifies the means or about the MCU's full immersion into pagan iconology and polytheism. One would think that Christians, Jews and Muslims at any rate would be more vocal in opposing those things becoming prevalent in popular culture.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I think it much more odd that I haven't heard anyone say anything negative about that the movie's premise that the ends justifies the means or about the MCU's full immersion into pagan iconology and polytheism. One would think that Christians, Jews and Muslims at any rate would be more vocal in opposing those things becoming prevalent in popular culture.

Well, being that Thanos is evil, and the central ethical point of the movie is that Thanos should be stopped, kind of like how Hitler needed to be stopped in WW II, kind of shores up the need to address Thanos' more utiliarian kind of skewed ethics.

But, I do hear what you're saying, it's just that I think the philosophical premises of Marvel and DC movies are more or less a mixed-bag; there's some good points and some bad points if we contrast these forms of entertainment with the Christian faith. Good point, though!

 

[charsan]

Nobody thinks it's weird that Endgame includes a rapture scene?

If your referring to the snap or them coming back that is not a rapture scene. I honestly did not see an evangelical theme in endgame.

 

[grasping the after wind]

Well, being that Thanos is evil, and the central ethical point of the movie is that Thanos should be stopped, kind of like how Hitler needed to be stopped in WW II, kind of shores up the need to address Thanos' more utiliarian kind of skewed ethics.

But, I do hear what you're saying, it's just that I think the philosophical premises of Marvel and DC movies are more or less a mixed-bag; there's some good points and some bad points if we contrast these forms of entertainment with the Christian faith. Good point, though!

What is the ethical difference in the movie between Thanos and Iron Man? They use the exact same means to achieve their desired ends. The only moral question the movie puts forth is about what ends are being pursued. In the first of the two parts of this story Thanos decides what ends he wants to achieve and does whatever he feels is necessary to achieve those ends without caring about the morality of the means he is using . In the second part Iron Man does the exact same thing. Both are willing to do whatever they have to achieve their ends and unwilling to question whether a means might be so terrible that the ends it achieves might not be worth it. In my experience if it takes a heinous action to achieve an end, the end is probably not that beneficial either, for anyone but the one or one's willing to commit the heinous act to see the end realized that is.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

What is the ethical difference in the movie between Thanos and Iron Man?

.....hmmm. Good point! But your talking to an Ant-Man fan (and Ghost Rider and Hulk fan), so I'm not sure. And you know that Ant-man (and his team) didn't quite see eye-to-eye with Iron Man. Heck, even Captain America didn't like Iron Man's approach at all times.

They use the exact same means to achieve their desired ends. The only moral question the movie puts forth is about what ends are being pursued. In the first of the two parts of this story Thanos decides what ends he wants to achieve and does whatever he feels is necessary to achieve those ends without caring about the morality of the means he is using . In the second part Iron Man does the exact same thing. Both are willing to do whatever they have to achieve their ends and unwilling to question whther a means might be so terrible that the endes it achieves might not be worth it. In my experience if it takes a heinous action to achieve an end the end is probably not that beneficial either for anyone but the one or one's willing to commit the heinous act to see the end realized.

Well......there goes the Old Testament! There goes the world in the book of Revelation, too!

 

[HopeInJesusOnly]

There is that, but then there's also the parallels that atheists like to point out between the character and actions of Thanos and ... *ahem* ... God.

So, there's one more thing to think about over and above the Avenger's presentation of a kind of "reverse-rapture."

Could it be the "falling away"?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Could it be the "falling away"?

I apologize, but I'm not sure what you're asking here, my friend. Have you seen the last two Avenger's movies?

 

[HopeInJesusOnly]

Have a read:

The Theology of Marvel's Avengers: Endgame, Genesis, and Revelation

The Theology of Marvel's Avengers: Endgame, Genesis, and Revelation

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Have a read:

The Theology of Marvel's Avengers: Endgame, Genesis, and Revelation

The Theology of Marvel's Avengers: Endgame, Genesis, and Revelation

Ohhh! That's interesting! I'm in the process of reading.

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

Most games, movies, tv shows have some sort of allegory to something else if you look hard enough. I mean every movie where the good guy wins is God winning in the end if you think about it.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Ohhh! That's interesting! I'm in the process of reading.

Ok. I read it. Whew! Talk about a quick, tour de force of film criticism (as in Ebert and Roper, etc.)

I know one thing I didn't pay attention to in the movie was that Thanos is wearing the glove on his left hand, but the Avengers wear it on the right hand. I just knew that the Left was evil ... but goodness gracious!

Anyway, you asked me previously, could it be "the falling away." Well, I'm assuming you haven't seen the movie. What happens is that Thanos snaps his little fingers in the 'power-glove' he has, and makes half of all people, life-forms, or whatever, throughout the entire universe...disappear. But not for their own health, mind you. This is different than what we find in the Bible, as interpreted among those Christians who believe in a Dispensational Rapture, where such an event is DEFINITELY for the health of those so "caught up."

So, I don't think any of the motifs in the Avenger's movie represent populations of the world becoming evil. Rather, Marvel has basically taken some religious motifs, symbolized them with a superhero "coating" [a mythologization of sorts] and embedded those motifs and religious parallels into the story line, knowing that the audience with catch some of the similarities as well as some of the contrasts. And this is typical of superhero comics, as the fictional 'stuff' that it is.

The downside is that these producing companies may have political and ethical predilections that they ALSO sew into these movies, so along with some interesting values (like perhaps those of Captain America), there also comes whatever is currently PC in the outside, real world worked into these films as well.

So, there's a mixture of social and philosophical motifs in these movies, some of which are compatible with the Christian faith.............and some that are not.

 

[HopeInJesusOnly]

The "snapture rapture" is actually in the Infinity Wars...shall I update the thread to include this movie?

 

[HopeInJesusOnly]

I apologize, but I'm not sure what you're asking here, my friend. Have you seen the last two Avenger's movies?

Sorry, yes, I see what you mean by reverse.

For my comment, I was suggesting that instead of it being the "snapture rapture" as seen in Infinity Wars, maybe it's the apostasy, or "great falling away" that we see. Just another view point. Thanks for your comments!

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Sorry, yes, I see what you mean by reverse.

For my comment, I was suggesting that instead of it being the "snapture rapture" as seen in Infinity Wars, maybe it's the apostasy, or "great falling away" that we see. Just another view point. Thanks for your comments!

I see. I get you now. And thank you for providing that article. I enjoyed reading it!

 

[2PhiloVoid]

The "snapture rapture" is actually in the Infinity Wars...shall I update the thread to include this movie?

...it's your thread, Sis!

 

[HopeInJesusOnly]

...it's your thread, Sis!

I think I adore you. Just sayin'.

 

[charsan]

The "snapture rapture" is actually in the Infinity Wars...shall I update the thread to include this movie?

Your mistaken the snap was not a "rapture". The 50 percent of everything that got snap (people, animals, vegetation, plants, etc) died, it is highly erroneous to think the people and things who were snapped was an evangelical "rapture" when it was no such thing. I sat there and watched it and I know there was nothing good in Thanos snap like in a "rapture"

 

[HopeInJesusOnly]

Your mistaken the snap was not a "rapture". The 50 percent of everything that got snap (people, animals, vegetation, plants, etc) died, it is highly erroneous to think the people and things who were snapped was an evangelical "rapture" when it was no such thing. I sat there and watched it and I know there was nothing good in Thanos snap like in a "rapture"

"...In the post-credits scene, we have a moment that calls back to both Left Behind and The Leftovers. Nick Fury and Maria Hill are on the road, discussing the alien ships over Wakanda, when a car goes out of control right in front of them. Hill runs to check on the driver, but finds an empty seat. Other cars ricochet into buildings. A helicopter spins into a high rise. We, the audience, know what’s going on, but none of these people on the ground know who Thanos is, or that the Avengers failed—even Fury and Hill are helpless as chaos erupts around them. And as Rapture fiction discovered decades ago, nothing shows this sort of terror like an ordinary fact of life: driving down a highway, mowing the lawn, doing laundry, becoming suddenly uncanny. And this visual language does its work: by the time Fury’s beeper is on the ground, we’ve accepted that life on Earth has been disrupted in an unprecedented way, and we’re primed to watch the aftermath in Endgame."*

https://www.tor.com/2019/04/23/snapture-vs-rapture-avengers-infinity-war/comment-page-1/

*I haven't seen the movie, only read about it (I'm not a fan of comics/superheroes). Seems pretty similar to me.