Facing racism by Derek Flood

[mcarans]

A thought provoking article on racism from theologian Derek Flood author of "Disarming Scripture" in which he talks about how we should "remove the log from our eye before we take the splinter from our brother's eye"

Facing racism by Derek Flood : cruciformity

What are your thoughts on it?

 

[Kaon]

Since people don't know the difference between raciam, prejudice, bigotry and ignorance, they broadstroke all four into "racism". This began long ago as a way to distract from an actual racist person - by calling the person discriminated against racist. It still goes on now.

This problem of racism is only a problem now because some of us are being forced to confront it - when the confrontation should have been ongoing as it occurred. We are quick to demonize someone we think is anti-Semetic no matter the context or circumstsnce, but many of us think racism is a joke "perpetuated by a 'victimized' inner-city mentality disillusioned by their own shortcomings." People actually believe this learned/taught behavior, swindling themselves out of the truth.


So, people confronting and recognizing it now is a farce in the sense that the action is the population's psychological response to trauma at work: (un)consciously trying to distract from the truth conviction of history by proposing a more acceptable reality.

 

[Tolworth John]

Well do you have any coloured friends? Would they attend your church? Would you attend their church?

At work, how many coloured people do you work with?

We are all suspicious of the strange/unusual so how in our churches are we working to lower barriers?
Joint services with the local coloured church?
Joint outreach with them?

 

[grasping the after wind]

I thought it a bit funny that part of the title of one of the works was "Disarming Scripture: Cherry-Picking Liberals, Violence-Loving Conservatives, and Why We All Need to Learn to Read the Bible Like Jesus Did". I don't know for sure but I suspect this is satiric in nature. If it is not I would be surprised. People will likely react by finger pointing on a thread in which the author in question has pleaded with us to not see the people on the other side of issues as evil and to look at our own faults first.

 

[public hermit]

"Rather, I want to argue that the core problem here has to do with the otherizing or dehumanizing of a person or group. When we see a person or group as a threat, as "other" it is easy to justify cruel or inhuman treatment. We see them as a monster, an animal. If we instead saw them as our brother, our sister, our child, as part of us, we would seek to deal with them in more humane ways...Conservatives need to not see liberals and people of color as the evil other, and progressives similarly need to not see white evangelicals as the evil other. Isn't that what "love your enemy" means?" Derek Flood

He seems to have hit the tribal nail on the head.

 

[Aussie Pete]

A thought provoking article on racism from theologian Derek Flood author of "Disarming Scripture" in which he talks about how we should "remove the log from our eye before we take the splinter from our brother's eye"

Facing racism by Derek Flood : cruciformity

What are your thoughts on it?

Racism is as much a part of human nature as breathing. Christians should be non-racist as the basis for unity is the new birth, not tribalism. It is not just black/white as many people suppose. There is just as much racism in Asian countries, Africa, Japan and so on as anywhere else.

 

[mcarans]

Racism is as much a part of human nature as breathing. Christians should be non-racist as the basis for unity is the new birth, not tribalism. It is not just black/white as many people suppose. There is just as much racism in Asian countries, Africa, Japan and so on as anywhere else.

Yes indeed. Racism can be exhibited by any race (or tribe).

 

[mcarans]

Here's an article "Subtle Racism and the Problems It Poses"
"everyday racism (is defined as) as "subtle, commonplace forms of discrimination, such as being ignored, ridiculed or treated differently...These are incidents that may seem innocent and small, but cumulatively they can have a powerful impact on an individual's mental health."
It gives many examples, but a church related one struck my attention:
"Say a Chinese American man visits a mostly white church for a few weeks but each Sunday no one talks to him. Moreover, few people even bother to greet him. Meanwhile, a white visitor to the church is invited out to lunch during his very first visit. Churchgoers not only talk to him but supply him with their phone numbers and email addresses. In a matter of weeks, he's thoroughly enmeshed in the church's social network.
The church members may be surprised to learn that the Chinese American man believes he was the victim of racial exclusion. After all, they just felt a connection with the white visitor that they lacked with the Chinese American man. Later, when the topic of increasing diversity at the church comes up, everyone shrugs when asked how to attract more parishioners of color. They fail to connect how their coldness to the people of color who do occasionally visit makes their religious institution unwelcoming to them."
Subtle Racism and the Problems It Poses

 

[SwordmanJr]

I have a colleague with whom I hang out with quite a bit. Yes, he happens to be a black man with very dark skin, and when we go places together, almost every other black-skinned person is quick to greet him and exchange all manner of "brotherly" pleasantries with him, with only a glance over in my direction, and sometimes no greeting whatsoever. If I can get a word in edge-wise, I greet them as well, and, again, am usually met with a courtesy nod or "Hey", and not much else that comes close to the camaraderie they express toward someone else who happens to have dark skin.

This seems to be a silent acknowledgement that others besides themselves, who have dark skin, are somehow connected in an experience of victimhood. My friend is prospering far better than I am, which is not at all an issue to me or to him, but we still value each other's company very highly. We both consider the other like a brother.

I hate what the racism on all sides has done to so many in every hue of skin color. I personally would be offended if I were part of a grouping that mostly identified with victimhood and my own "people" inclusively looked at me and labeled me along with them as being yet another victim. Injustices in life hit us all. Getting ripped off at the gas pump, someone stealing our identities and causing all manner of credit problems we have to fight, getting a speeding ticket when we were not speeding at all, the list goes on and on endlessly.

But, this idea leftist, mass media goons seem to put forth that only white people are racist, that's pushing it all way too far. There's more than enough blame to go around. CNN pushing the idea that there's such a thing as white supremacy in America, and global warming, both falsehoods serve only to keep us all divided along every increasing lines of distinction rather than being unified against these forces that only divide so that conquering becomes much easier for the eletists who are trying to take more and more power for themselves to dominate us all, and every grouping is playing right into their schemes perfectly....

Jr

 

[mcarans]

I have a colleague with whom I hang out with quite a bit. Yes, he happens to be a black man with very dark skin, and when we go places together, almost every other black-skinned person is quick to greet him and exchange all manner of "brotherly" pleasantries with him, with only a glance over in my direction, and sometimes no greeting whatsoever. If I can get a word in edge-wise, I greet them as well, and, again, am usually met with a courtesy nod or "Hey", and not much else that comes close to the camaraderie they express toward someone else who happens to have dark skin.

This seems to be a silent acknowledgement that others besides themselves, who have dark skin, are somehow connected in an experience of victimhood. My friend is prospering far better than I am, which is not at all an issue to me or to him, but we still value each other's company very highly. We both consider the other like a brother.

I hate what the racism on all sides has done to so many in every hue of skin color. I personally would be offended if I were part of a grouping that mostly identified with victimhood and my own "people" inclusively looked at me and labeled me along with them as being yet another victim. Injustices in life hit us all. Getting ripped off at the gas pump, someone stealing our identities and causing all manner of credit problems we have to fight, getting a speeding ticket when we were not speeding at all, the list goes on and on endlessly.

But, this idea leftist, mass media goons seem to put forth that only white people are racist, that's pushing it all way too far. There's more than enough blame to go around. CNN pushing the idea that there's such a thing as white supremacy in America, and global warming, both falsehoods serve only to keep us all divided along every increasing lines of distinction rather than being unified against these forces that only divide so that conquering becomes much easier for the eletists who are trying to take more and more power for themselves to dominate us all, and every grouping is playing right into their schemes perfectly....

Jr

Given America's history of slavery and segregation, I don't think modern day racism should be dismissed. The KKK and equivalent groups are not a modern media invention.

I agree with you about the divisive forces at play. The forces you mention are the oligarchs who have Americans scapegoating foreigners and arguing over social issues like gay marriage and transgender bathrooms while they take an ever greater share of the nation's wealth by their control of economic policy through their proxies - the Republican Party (and Fox News etc.) and the Clinton/Biden wing of the Democrats (and CNN etc.). It is the division of Americans through their schemes that encourages racism to thrive.

 

[SwordmanJr]

Given America's history of slavery and segregation, I don't think modern day racism should be dismissed. The KKK and equivalent groups are not a modern media invention.

The slavery days in America are long since passed, and yet the media ignores modern slavery that is still ongoing to this day within the many muslim countries around the world, and even all the homosexuals being executed every week within islamic countries worldwide. Once Islam takes over as the dominant fascist, politocal-religion in America, we will once against see slavery manifest itself on this section of the North American continent since the Koran absolutely endorses slavery. They will make the KKK look like child's play. Modern racism is nothing compared to what's headed our way.

Jr

 

[mcarans]

The slavery days in America are long since passed, and yet the media ignores modern slavery that is still ongoing to this day within the many muslim countries around the world, and even all the homosexuals being executed every week within islamic countries worldwide. Once Islam takes over as the dominant fascist, politocal-religion in America, we will once against see slavery manifest itself on this section of the North American continent since the Koran absolutely endorses slavery. They will make the KKK look like child's play. Modern racism is nothing compared to what's headed our way.

Jr

Conservative Islam has the tendencies you describe, but given the chance, any religion dominated by conservative hardliners lusting after political influence and power will go in that direction, even Christianity. The Bible nowhere condemns slavery and has been used in the past to justify it - any religious text in the hands of fundamentalists can and will be weaponised.

I am doubtful conservative Islam will become the dominant religion in the US. What is far more likely is the US becomes more agnostic or nonreligious like Europe. The oligarchs want Americans distracted on issues like Islam and immigrants as it is a convenient smokescreen while they plunder more and more of the nation's wealth.

 

[grasping the after wind]

"Rather, I want to argue that the core problem here has to do with the otherizing or dehumanizing of a person or group. When we see a person or group as a threat, as "other" it is easy to justify cruel or inhuman treatment. We see them as a monster, an animal. If we instead saw them as our brother, our sister, our child, as part of us, we would seek to deal with them in more humane ways...Conservatives need to not see liberals and people of color as the evil other, and progressives similarly need to not see white evangelicals as the evil other. Isn't that what "love your enemy" means?" Derek Flood

He seems to have hit the tribal nail on the head.

I doubt it. He seems to be assuming that conservatives see people of color as the evil other. He is actually defining Conservatives are evil racists by assuming that. Perhaps he should talk to a few Conservatives and ask them why they advocate for the things they advocate for and listen to their answers before assuming they are acting out of racism. I'm fairly Conservative and I do not consider people of color my enemy at all. I would consider a leftist my enemy in the political sense but conflating political ideology with race is a mistake. And what about people of color that are also Conservatives?

 

[public hermit]

I doubt it. He seems to be assuming that conservatives see people of color as the evil other. He is actually defining Conservatives are evil racists by assuming that. Perhaps he should talk to a few Conservatives and ask them why they advocate for the things they advocate for and listen to their answers before assuming they are acting out of racism. I'm fairly Conservative and I do not consider people of color my enemy at all. I would consider a leftist my enemy in the political sense but conflating political ideology with race is a mistake. And what about people of color that are also Conservatives?

I get what you're saying. I think he's referencing the radical division we have in this country between the right and the left. There does seem to be a tendency to see the other side as the enemy, which is fairly new in my 47 years of experience. When I was coming up, people weren't divided like they are now. This tribalism is new and alarming. The racism is just one aspect.

Those on the left need to hear from you. And you from them. Not via media, but in candid conversation. Did you read the article, per chance?

 

[SwordmanJr]

Conservative Islam has the tendencies you describe,...

Most of the numerous islamic countries around the world are "conservative," even most of the muslim communities in America. There was much dancing, celebrating and cheering in the streets of America in the predominantly muslim communities when the two towers went down.

I am doubtful conservative Islam will become the dominant religion in the US.

They are primed for that very thing. All one need to do is observe how friendly liberal, mass media is toward them...the very people who murder homosexuals and subjugate women lower than doormats.

What is far more likely is the US becomes more agnostic or nonreligious like Europe.

Secular humanism is indeed a religion, as it is in Europe. The only difference is that they don't have a collective facility like what they call a "church" building. They belly up to the religious trough of their faith every day in order to satisfy their appetite for believing there is no God. It's all about perspective.

The oligarchs want Americans distracted on issues like Islam and immigrants as it is a convenient smokescreen while they plunder more and more of the nation's wealth.

Ignoring the unceasing flow of invaders crossing our southern borders will not stop the plunder of wealth. We were finished as a nation long ago. It's been over for some time now, and there's no way we can take it back.

Jr

 

[mcarans]

Conservative Islam can only get a foothold in the US if the oligarchs want it to. They may allow it because any conservative religion is easily corrupted with the leaders selling out their faith and the interests and well-being of their flock for power and money. Just look at some Evangelical leaders for a prime example.

Thinking about it maybe the oligarchs are setting things up to allow conservative Islam to spread in the States. Why else do successive administrations, particularly Republican ones and including the current administration toady up to Saudi Arabia the main spreader of one of the most extreme forms of Islam (Wahhabism) against the national interest? It's illogical unless another force is at work - that force is the oligarchs.

As for the US being finished, unless the population wrestle back control of the country from the oligarchs who dominate the Republicans and Biden wing of the Democrats, then with wealth and power concentrated in the hands of a few, the economy will certainly suffer and with it US dominance.

The media and tech are key here. The oligarchs control all the major newspapers and media outlets from CNN to Fox and they can buy social media ads to guide the populace to think exactly how they want them to think. They give people the impression that they have a choice and live in a democracy when in fact more and more they are tightly controlled and can only choose between the options the oligarchs allow. It's much smarter than any propaganda in Nazi Germany, the USSR, N Korea or Saudi Arabia and if it weren't so insidious and evil, one would have to stand back and admire the brilliance and effectiveness of their strategy, which amazingly still remains largely hidden.

 

[grasping the after wind]

I get what you're saying. I think he's referencing the radical division we have in this country between the right and the left. There does seem to be a tendency to see the other side as the enemy, which is fairly new in my 47 years of experience. When I was coming up, people weren't divided like they are now. This tribalism is new and alarming. The racism is just one aspect.

Those on the left need to hear from you. And you from them. Not via media, but in candid conversation. Did you read the article, per chance?

Not completely but I did skim over it. There are so many people posting articles on CF that finding time to do a thorough read of any of them is difficult. Usually I will not even bother to look at them as it is my opinion that if one has a point to make one ought to just make it oneself rather than assign others the task of reading an article. Posting a link to an article is fine but making the reading of that article a prerequisite for discussion of the point being made is a bit unreasonable IMO. I am not accusing anyone on this thread of t doing that but I have experienced it in the past and find it offensive.

I must take issue with the idea that the tendency to see the other side as an enemy is fairly new. I have noticed it in political rhetoric and advertising as long as I can recall seeing and hearing those things. I think it has started to get more intense recently but demonization has been an aspect of political discourse for a very long time. It is hard to have a reasonable discussion of an issue when the person on the other side is calling you a bigot or racist or homophobe based upon your policy position being different from theirs or when they are attempting to drown your voice out with mindless chanting.

 

[public hermit]

Posting a link to an article is fine but making the reading of that article a prerequisite for discussion of the point being made is a bit unreasonable IMO.

Good point.

It is hard to have a reasonable discussion of an issue when the person on the other side is calling you a bigot or racist or homophobe based upon your policy position being different from theirs or when they are attempting to drown your voice out with mindless chanting.

I agree. People are discounted right off the bat. As soon as one is identified with one side or another a whole host of pejorative labels are attached to them. Under those conditions constructive discourse is near impossible. The ability to think with nuance is a rare virtue these days.

Nonetheless, I consider this situation to be a potential benefit to Christians, if we would only take advantage of it. As Christians, our common faith in Jesus Christ should transcend these divisions. Our first allegiance is to Jesus Christ. Whatever hankerings we have for party politics should fall way down the line from that first priority. In an ideal world, which this one is not, Christians would be united even as partisan politics swirl all around us. Assuming we could achieve such a unified stance under the current conditions, this would speak wonders to the unsurpassable value of following Jesus Christ. What greater witness can we give to world than to be united as the world is divided? And who knows, with so many Christians in this country, that kind of unity could be the balm this country needs.

But of course, I'm cynical. That won't happen.

 

[grasping the after wind]

Good point.



I agree. People are discounted right off the bat. As soon as one is identified with one side or another a whole host of pejorative labels are attached to them. Under those conditions constructive discourse is near impossible. The ability to think with nuance is a rare virtue these days.

Nonetheless, I consider this situation to be a potential benefit to Christians, if we would only take advantage of it. As Christians, our common faith in Jesus Christ should transcend these divisions. Our first allegiance is to Jesus Christ. Whatever hankerings we have for party politics should fall way down the line from that first priority. In an ideal world, which this one is not, Christians would be united even as partisan politics swirl all around us. Assuming we could achieve such a unified stance under the current conditions, this would speak wonders to the unsurpassable value of following Jesus Christ. What greater witness can we give to world than to be united as the world is divided? And who knows, with so many Christians in this country, that kind of unity could be the balm this country needs.

But of course, I'm cynical. That won't happen.

I agree. Christians ought to be united. We most likely ought to simply dismiss politics and political philosophies, that place secular interests at the center of the universe, as completely unimportant to our lives. We probably ought to be concentrating all of our attention on being Christians. Unfortunately we just don't do that in the least. Mostly we concentrate on our secular interests perhaps even to the point of being obsessed with them.

 

[Aussie Pete]

Good point.



I agree. People are discounted right off the bat. As soon as one is identified with one side or another a whole host of pejorative labels are attached to them. Under those conditions constructive discourse is near impossible. The ability to think with nuance is a rare virtue these days.

Nonetheless, I consider this situation to be a potential benefit to Christians, if we would only take advantage of it. As Christians, our common faith in Jesus Christ should transcend these divisions. Our first allegiance is to Jesus Christ. Whatever hankerings we have for party politics should fall way down the line from that first priority. In an ideal world, which this one is not, Christians would be united even as partisan politics swirl all around us. Assuming we could achieve such a unified stance under the current conditions, this would speak wonders to the unsurpassable value of following Jesus Christ. What greater witness can we give to world than to be united as the world is divided? And who knows, with so many Christians in this country, that kind of unity could be the balm this country needs.

But of course, I'm cynical. That won't happen.

Lots of Christians in Australia were quoting 2 Chronicles 7:14 recently. We had a remarkable show of unity coming up to an election. Christians were delighted while the world was bemused as the "unlosable" election was lost. I am convinced that the "wicked ways" of the Church in Australia is disunity. In the past, similar victories have subsided and the church has gone back to its old ways. Psalm 133 is still as valid today as when it was written.
You comment, "so many Christians.......". I wonder. The gospel is being watered down to where it is barely recognisable and (in Australia) around 95% of church attenders are not born again. It would be far better if the 95% were given the real gospel and either got saved or stayed home. Of course, it would not look so good on the preacher's CV. Billy Graham said that he would be delighted if 5% of those who came forward were genuine conversions. And he preached the real gospel.