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LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
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BNR32FAN said:
You quoted John 15:16 but what about the rest of that statement?

You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you.

This is basically like Jesus saying I have chosen you to do a job so do it.

What is the message Jesus is trying to convey to His 11 faithful apostles?
FineLinen said:
Dear BNR: The rest of the "statement" flows from the fact>>>

You did not choose Me, I chose you
Strong in Him said:
The 12 disciples didn't choose Jesus - doesn't mean we can't, though.
Jesus invited them to follow him; he didn't make them. Plenty of others turned back when it got too hard, John 6:66.
666........interesting.

If you read further on, you will see Judas mentioned. And we all know what happened after the Last Supper when Jesus finished His famous Garden discourse........
Judas and the minions of the Satan/Devil Jewish Rulers/Chief Priests show up........the false religious "rulers of the world".
"Judas" is also another name for "Judah", the tribe Jesus was descended from

John 6:
66At this, many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. 67Jesus said therefore to the twelve, "You don't also want to go away, do you?" 68Simon Peter answered him, "Lord, to whom would we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69We have come to believe and know that you are the Christ, the Son of the living God."
70Jesus answered them, "Didn't I choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?" 71Now he spoke of Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, for it was he who would betray him, being one of the twelve.
Psalms 41:9 Even my own familiar friend in whom I trusted, who ate my bread,
Has lifted up his heel against me. [John 13:18]
Luke 22:3
Then Satan entered Judas, surnamed Iscariot, who was numbered among the twelve.

John 13:
2 The evening meal was underway, and the Devil had already put into the heart of Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, to betray Jesus
18 “I do not speak concerning all of you. I know whom I have chosen; but that the Scripture may be fulfilled, ‘He who eats bread with Me has lifted up his heel against Me.' [Psalms 41:19]
==============================
Then the longest discourse by Jesus in the NT before He is arrested, tried and crucified.........

John 12:31 "Now is the judgment of this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out.

John 14:30 "I will no longer talk much with you, for the ruler of this world is coming, and he has nothing in Me.

John 16:11 "of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged

The Betrayal of Jesus
(Matthew 26:47-56; Luke 22:47-53; John 18:1-14)

John 18:3 Judas, therefore, having taken the band and officers out of the Chief priests and Pharisees, doth come thither with torches and lamps, and weapons;
===========================
Judah is actually named as the "Rich Man" in this covenantle parable of Luke 16:

Luke 16 "Rich Man/Poor Man" parable.....The most misunderstood/misinterpreted Parable in the NT?
Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary


LUKE 16:27 "Then he said, 'I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father's house, 28 for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.' " (NKJV)

Yielding himself to his destiny, the rich man asks one more thing of his forefather Abraham. He pleads with him to send someone to warn his brothers, so that they may escape "this place of torment" (basanou), the testing and punishment that he was undergoing, Simeon, Levi, Issachar, and Zebulun (Gen. 35:23).

The fact that the rich man has five brothers is a vital clue to his true symbolic identity.
Judah, the progenitor of the Jews, was the son of Jacob through Leah (Gen. 29:35). He had five full-blooded brothers: Reuben
While the significance of this seemingly pointless detail has been neglected by scholars throughout the centuries, you can be certain that it did not escape the notice of the Pharisees and scribes to which Yeshua was speaking. They thoroughly knew their history and were extremely proud of their heritage. Yeshua wanted those self-righteous Pharisees to know exactly who he was referring to with this parable.
This detail cements the identity of the rich man as the House of Judah, the Jews!
 
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brinny

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Not Gnosticism ... but an increased understanding that you obviously have no understanding of :)

Nonsense. Gnosticism is heresy, as well as their Sophia. An abomination to the living God.
 
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~Zao~

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Nonsense. Gnosticism is heresy, as well as their Sophia. An abomination to the living God.
Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia › wiki › Sophia_(Gnosticism)
In gnosticism, Sophia is a feminine figure, analogous to the human soul but also simultaneously one of the feminine aspects of God. Gnostics held that she was the syzygy (female twin divine Aeon) of Jesus (i.e. the Bride of Christ), and Holy Spirit of the Trinity.
Ya not at all what I was talking about, Christ’s twin ^_^ That ship marooned with Paul lol I think we’re all on the Argon now. Anyway have a good day brinny. Sianara
 
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brinny

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Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia › wiki › Sophia_(Gnosticism)
Ya not at all what I was talking about, Christ’s twin ^_^ That ship marooned with Paul lol I think we’re all on the Argon now. Anyway have a good day brinny. Sianara

Sophia is Gnostic, and Satan has attempted to weave her and other myths and legends all in the Bible. It is written that we are to be aware of and avoid the pitfalls, deceit, and traps of false gospels and teachings that are heretical and an abomination to the living God.
 
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~Zao~

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Sophia is Gnostic, and Satan has attempted to weave her all in the Bible. It is written that we are to be aware of and avoid the pitfalls, deceit, and traps of false gospels and teachings that are heretical and an abomination to the living God.
Because you objected to the use of sophia you have disregarded everything else that the analogy was about :sigh: whatever ... nice cloud dust but no rain!
 
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joshua 1 9

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You did not choose Me but I chose you
"Many are called but few are choosen". We have to live a life of holiness and sanctification if we want to be used by God. Not everyone responds to God's call on them and their life.
 
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brinny

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Because you objected to the use of sophia you have disregarded everything else that the analogy was about :sigh: whatever ... nice cloud dust!

Sophia and Gnosticism are heretical. They oppose the living God, just as Lucifer did, and then was re-named Satan, God's adversary.

I'm merely pointing out what is not of God.

We are admonished to do just that.
 
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~Zao~

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Sophia and Gnosticism are heretical. They oppose the living God, just as Lucifer did, and then was re-named Satan, God's adversary.

I'm merely pointing out what is not of God.

We are admonished to do just that.
And I’m merely pointing out what is of God. If you have any objection to my posts other than the analogy to the name ‘Sophia’ wisdom, I wish you would get to the point. And please don’t get mired in names.
 
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Strong in Him

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Dear BNR: The Royal Road for discipleship remains exactly the same today as it has been for over 2000 years!

Not quite.
We can hear the Gospel - the whole Gospel plus the resurrection and promise of the Holy Spirit. And we have a choice whether or not to say "yes" to Jesus; raise your hand in a service, go forward at an altar call, talk to a Minister and then say the sinners prayer. The gift of God is eternal life through Jesus, Romans 6:23 - gifts are no good if you do not take and unwrap them.
Now of course you could say that anyone responding to Jesus can only do so if the Spirit has already been working in their heart, unknown to them, maybe through the prayers of believers. That may well be true. But an individual still has the ability to say either, "I will follow you" or "no thanks, I'll stick with my friends" - they even have the ability to change their mind a few times. Haven't you ever heard of people who became Christians, turned away in a time of hardship, and then turned back, maybe many years later? Or people who were adamant they hated God and joined a cult or another faith, only to become a Christian some time later?

It was true that none of the 12 CHOSE Jesus, but when he said "follow me", they willingly did so; no one made them. God gave Adam and Eve a choice - he did not force them to eat the fruit from the tree.
And the thing about this kind of argument is, that people are quite willing to believe that God can choose, but that for some reason we, who are made in his image, cannot.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia › wiki › Sophia_(Gnosticism)

In gnosticism, Sophia is a feminine figure, analogous to the human soul but also simultaneously one of the feminine aspects of God. Gnostics held that she was the syzygy (female twin divine Aeon) of Jesus (i.e. the Bride of Christ), and Holy Spirit of the Trinity.

Ya not at all what I was talking about, Christ’s twin ^_^ That ship marooned with Paul lol I think we’re all on the Argon now. Anyway have a good day brinny. Sianara
Sophia and Gnosticism are heretical. They oppose the living God, just as Lucifer did, and then was re-named Satan, God's adversary.

I'm merely pointing out what is not of God.

We are admonished to do just that.
Hello brinny.
I did a google search and actually came up with a thread on the TAW board of CF

https://www.google.com/search?q=Sop...I6wKHZbWCzgQrQIoBDAAegQIBhAN&biw=1366&bih=626

Home Forums > Christian Congregations (Christians Only) > Christian Communities > The Ancient Way - Eastern Orthodox >

Is Sophia/Wisdom a feminine Spirit? If so, what is its relationship to Christ?

As I understand it, in Orthodox theology, Christ is the Word, the Logos, Begotten of the Father "before all ages". Also in Biblical thought is the concept of Holy Wisdom, Sophia. Hence in Exodus and in the Wisdom of Solomon, Wisdom has or is called a "spirit". In Hebrew and Greek, Wisdom is a feminine term ("Sophia" being the Greek word).
Here is Exodus 28:3: "And thou shalt speak unto all that are wise hearted, whom I have filled with the spirit of wisdom".

In Proverbs 8, Solomon describes wisdom as speaking and as saying that the Lord possessed her before the creation of the earth.:

In comparison, Gnostic writings taught that Sophia was a feminine Spirit united with Christ, thus forming an androgynous being. Philip Harland explained that according to the 1st-mid 2nd century Gnostic "Epistle of Eugnostos" and "Sophia of Jesus Christ", in the super-celestial realm,
SOURCE: Sophia’s mistake: The Sophia of Jesus Christ and Eugnostos (NT Apocrypha 16) | Religions of the Ancient Mediterranean

Here is how the Epistle of Eugnostos talks about the relationship between the Begotten Perfect Mind who is full of light and Sophia, which reminds me of the question of the relationship between The Word - Logos and Wisdom - Sophia:

You can read The Epistle of Eugnostos in The Nag Hammadi Library in English:
The Nag Hammadi Library in English

Maybe one can say that Proverbs was just using allegorical language when it talked about Wisdom as a Spirit. However, I think that some early mainstream Christian writings also identified Christ/the Logos with "Sophia"/"Wisdom". And so if it's true that Sophia or Wisdom is feminine and a "Spirit", then what becomes the relationship to Christ the Logos, which is masculine? Are they consorts that are united into one being, or is the whole "feminine" aspect really purely an issue of Hebrew and Greek grammar that the Epistle of Eugnostos and other Gnostic writings took too far?

I've read some interesting writings on the general OP.

Here the Bible book of Proverbs chapter 8 comes to mind. There the verses 22 to 31 read:

“The LORD [Hebrew: YHWH] created me the beginning of his works, before all else that he made, long ago. Alone, I was fashioned in times long past, at the beginning, long before earth itself. When there was yet no ocean I was born, no springs brimming with water. Before the mountains were settled in their place, long before the hills I was born, when as yet he had made neither land nor lake nor the first clod of earth. When he set heavens in their place I was there, when he girded the oceans with the horizon, when he fixed the canopy of clouds overhead and set the springs of ocean firm in their place, when he prescribed its limits for the sea and knit together earth’s foundations. Then I was at his side each day, his darling and delight, playing in his presence continually, playing on the earth, when he had finished it, while my delight was in mankind.”[15]

In these verses the quality of wisdom is personified. As the gender of wisdom [in Hebrew: ח֗כְמַה: ḥoḵmah] is feminine, some claim that the agent I question is a feminine being. However, it should be remembered that there is a difference between sex and gender. This is also the case in other Semitic languages that Hebrew. For instance, the Arabic word for Caliph (خليفة: ḵalīfe) is a word in the feminine gender although it always refers to a male.[16]



Hellenized Christians

With the second century Christians the wisdom personified in Proverbs chapter eight was believed to be Jesus in his pre-human existence. In his book The Book of Proverbs: Chapters 1-15, Bruce K. Waltke writes: “Beginning at least as early as the apologist Justin Martyr (A.D. 125), Christians, almost without exception, identified Sophia (the Greek equivalent of Heb. ḥoḵmâ) in Proverbs 8 with Jesus Christ.”[17]

Of Justin Martyr, who is famous for his logos-theology, the theologian Henry Chadwick writes:

“Justin’s debt to Platonic philosophy is important for his theology in one respect of far-reaching importance. He uses the concept of the divine Logos or Reason both to explain how the transcendent Father of all deals with the inferior, created order of things, and to justify his faith in the revelation made by God through the prophets and in Christ… It is implicit in Justin’s thesis that the distinction between ‘Father’ and ‘Son’ corresponds to the distinction between God transcendent and God immanent.”[18]

This was an idea inspired by Greek philosophy. In Hellenistic Greek the primary meaning of the word logos is the intelligent order of or reason displayed in the universe while certain philosophers regarded it is as a sort of person, the ‘world soul.’ This philosophical approach was taken up by later Christian writers, where some, such as Theophilus of Antioch (d. 181), preferred to regard the logos as God’s thoughts.[19] “ In Stoic thought the Word is reason expressed in voice or word, and in Theophilus we find a distinction between the Word of God residing in the Deity and the Word of God uttered or expressed in divine activity.”[20] Others, such as Origen (d. 234) regarded the logos as a sort of mediator between a transcendent God and the physical universe.[21] Interestingly, most of the Christian writers of the second and third centuries did not regard the logos as equal to God.[22]

But Hellenized Christian writers were not the only ones who took up the philosophical denotation of the word logos. So did the Gnostics.

The Gnostics were “a number of unorthodox sects that flourished in the Roman empire and western Asia in the first few centuries of the Christian era. Its chief diffusion centre was Alexandria.”[23] Unlike the early Christians, the Gnostics were rabid dualists. According to them, the world was split up in two opposites: the good and the bad. The good was all what is spiritual and the bad all what is physical, the visible world and everything related to it. They believed that this world originally was created, not by God Almighty, the loving Father, but by some malevolent demiurge. Consequently some of them believed that Jesus was the logos, but not with a human body. He just looked like a man, they said.[24]



Logos and Memra
 
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~Zao~

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And so back to the main point before all the confusion and accusations:

Choosing for appointment and living a life that bears fruit is a very fine line indeed. Sophia wisdom seems to be the governing factor for those who are under it’s breathing (soul-life given) For instance in the promotion of hospitals, abolishing slavery and that sort of thing, fruit that will remain. A renewing of the mind to Christ and His ways for His people. The fire baptism that occurred for service seems to be for His speficif workings to get His work done for Himself rather than a general benefit for people of the world.
 
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brinny

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And I’m merely pointing out what is of God. If you have any objection to my posts other than the analogy to the name ‘Sophia’ wisdom, I wish you would get to the point. And please don’t get mired in names.

It is the living God, El Elyon, Who abhors heresy. It is written all throughout His Word.

"For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;) Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; " ~II Cor 10:3-5

Praying.

Let it rain.
 
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danielmears

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Dear Daniel: The Archegos and Prodromos went a mite further than showing us the Way. He is the Prince-Leader of the Way!

He is bringing many sons to glory
Right, but He also said we must,"do", as He says!
 
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brinny

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~Zao~

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It is the living God, El Elyon, Who abhors heresy. It is written all throughout His Word.

"For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;) Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; " ~II Cor 10:3-5

Praying.

Let it rain.
I think I read somewhere that He hates false witnesses too.
 
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~Zao~

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Are you referring to the Bible verses in my post (#93) that you quoted from?

Praying.

Let it rain?
"For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;) Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; " ~II Cor 10:3-5​

Spiritual warfare, looking at the principles behind the precept, in effect, yes.
 
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brinny

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"For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;) Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; " ~II Cor 10:3-5​

Spiritual warfare, looking at the principles behind the precept, in effect, yes.

Why did you refer to those verses as false witness?

Praying.

Let it rain.
 
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