is it peter the rock? or is it jesus?

prodromos

Senior Veteran
Supporter
Nov 28, 2003
21,424
11,978
58
Sydney, Straya
✟1,167,262.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
The fact remains that There was only one denomination until the protesting catholics broke away in the 1500s (Luther etc).
This statement is utterly contrary to history.
It has continued for 20 centuries now, and its doctrines have never changed.
Also contrary to history.
With respect, no one doubted the authority of Peter and his successors until after the 1500s. The early Christians believed it and taught it.
You really need to read actual history and stop relying on Catholic apologetics.
Honestly, that is three strikes. I hope you are not a baseball fan.
 
Upvote 0

JIMINZ

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2017
6,600
2,358
79
Southern Ga.
✟157,715.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
Yeah, I switched the 2 and 4, was typing too fast I guess :)

Yeah I know what you mean I had to recheck my post when I saw yours that is how I noticed your being wrong.....You not alone. :doh:
 
Upvote 0

Kid Knox

Member
Aug 31, 2019
5
0
55
Moorhead
✟15,905.00
Country
United States
Faith
Traditional. Cath.
Marital Status
Divorced
No, same Cyprian. He argued that he himself sat upon the Chair of Peter, so he cannot be referring to the seat in Rome.
Then I would ask to provide evidence of your claim as it is contradiction to what I have read from Cyprian of Carthage.
 
Upvote 0

misput

JimD
Sep 5, 2018
1,023
382
84
Pacific, Mo.
✟152,101.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
The bottom line is the Catholic church is just another religious organization established by man just like all the rest. The one true church is Spiritual and has The Messiah for its foundation and head and those that are being saved as His Spiritual body. Those who follow after a physical visible church are going to be surprised.
 
Upvote 0

prodromos

Senior Veteran
Supporter
Nov 28, 2003
21,424
11,978
58
Sydney, Straya
✟1,167,262.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
The bottom line is the Catholic church is just another religious organization established by man just like all the rest. The one true church is Spiritual and has The Messiah for its foundation and head and those that are being saved as His Spiritual body. Those who follow after a physical visible church are going to be surprised.
Christ gave His Church authority to teach, to correct and to discipline. A 'spiritual' church can do none of that.
 
Upvote 0

JIMINZ

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2017
6,600
2,358
79
Southern Ga.
✟157,715.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
Christ gave His Church authority to teach, to correct and to discipline. A 'spiritual' church can do none of that.

So you saying, given the choice, you would rather be a part of the Church that possesses the Physical Authority to teach, correct, discipline, rather than the Spiritual Church of Christ because you cannot wittiness it's Physical workings?
 
Upvote 0

prodromos

Senior Veteran
Supporter
Nov 28, 2003
21,424
11,978
58
Sydney, Straya
✟1,167,262.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
So you saying, given the choice, you would rather be a part of the Church that possesses the Physical Authority to teach, correct, discipline, rather than the Spiritual Church of Christ because you cannot wittiness it's Physical workings?
No, I am saying that what is claimed to be the 'spritual church of christ' is not the Church as described by the Scriptures.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

JIMINZ

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2017
6,600
2,358
79
Southern Ga.
✟157,715.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
No, I am saying that what is claimed to be the 'spritual church of christ' is not the Church as described by the Scriptures.


Therefore the only valid Church is the Physical Church of Christ, and the Spiritual Church of Christ cannot exist?
 
Upvote 0

tz620q

Regular Member
Supporter
Apr 19, 2007
2,658
1,038
Carmel, IN
✟567,157.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
So you saying, given the choice, you would rather be a part of the Church that possesses the Physical Authority to teach, correct, discipline, rather than the Spiritual Church of Christ because you cannot wittiness it's Physical workings?
That is the logical fallacy of the false dichotomy. Your statement is based on the false assumption that if the Church is Physical, it cannot be Spiritual.
 
Upvote 0

tz620q

Regular Member
Supporter
Apr 19, 2007
2,658
1,038
Carmel, IN
✟567,157.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Simon is referred to as Peter right throughout the Gospels, and when Mark records in chapter 8 the same conversation had in Matthew 16, the "you are Peter and on this rock" is notably absent. Very strange if it has the importance and implications which Catholics insist.
That Simon is referred to as Peter throughout the Gospels could easily come from the fact that they were written years after the events at a time when Simon was referred to as Peter or Simon Peter more than just Simon.

I was rather dismayed by your second point. I often get arguments from Orthodox about wanting something to remain a mystery and I can see that form of argument; but rarely do I have an Orthodox Christian use an argument from silence, especially one that is related in another book of scripture.

This topic, like trying to talk to people who do not believe in the Real Presence, is often a discussion in futility; because neither side is willing to come out from behind their carefully constructed apologetics. I'll make you a deal, if you admit that Jesus was addressing solely Peter in Matthew 16. I'll admit that all of the apostles were given the same mission and the same Holy Spirit to help them carry that mission out. I don't know if there is scripture to back up all of them getting the keys as in Matthew; but all other gifts were given them.
 
Upvote 0

JIMINZ

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2017
6,600
2,358
79
Southern Ga.
✟157,715.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
That is the logical fallacy of the false dichotomy. Your statement is based on the false assumption that if the Church is Physical, it cannot be Spiritual.


Not quite, that is what your saying.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

mkgal1

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33
Supporter
Jun 22, 2007
27,339
7,349
California
✟551,233.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
some people say that jesus was talking about himself about the rock

matthew 16:18
I'm posting blindly - as I have only read your OP. I apologize if this has already been answered.
When Jesus asked Peter....."But who do YOU say I am?" and Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” That was the foundation the church was built upon. Not on Peter, but on what Peter had testified.
 
Upvote 0