"For many are called, but few are chosen." (Matthew 22:14)

[GenemZ]

right, the first invitations out sent to the those with first rights to them, they turn it down, so it went to the streets who "filled the wedding hall" with "the bad as well as the good". however, it's not these characteristics that they are discriminated against but later it's revealed it is their improper wedding garments that they are discriminated against.

The King is God the Father, the son being honoured is Christ. the invitation is God's message, the servants giving the message are God's messengers such as the prophets that everyone typically hated during their time. The first who receive the invitation is Isreal. The King was persistent so they abused the servants and even killed some (like John the baptist) then there is an act of vengeance by the King, can we say the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD?

Now the wedding invitation (the gospel) is released to the streets (the great commission, to all the word, "Pante ta Ethne) the streets are the world and the people that dwell in them are the Gentiles. Where do we fit? of course the Gentiles. We are the second party invited to the party.

The meaning of the garments have been wrestled with for a while as to what they actually are, Luther thought it was Christ but this is not so, as Christ is the son but it can be something Christ gives us. The parable tells us both the good and the bad were invited so it is not the condition of their natural self that rejects a person or not, and if there were willing to come it seems to be good enough. No, when we come to Christ we are a new creation and are adorned with the righteousness of Christ and these are the clothes. It is not our merits that get us to the party, but when we arrive we are given new garments to make us worthy and we must accept them when entering. I would suspect the one they missed is like those playing church but never really embrace the gospel. They are invited to the party, show up, but reject the garments given to them so maybe they somehow get in for a bit, but when found out they are thrown out of the party.

That is true. But what many fail to realize is that Jesus was referring to a Jewish age. Before the Church began? The Jews were the evangelists to the world. Look at Jonah. He was sent to evangelize the Ninevites.

During the Tribulation period Jews will once again be the evangelists to the world. The Church will be absent and gone from earth and will be in Heaven. The invite to the wedding hall? It will be given during the Tribulation according to Jewish protocol.The entire earth (many) will be evangelized. Relatively few will believe. Billions will believe. Many billions will refuse.

When Jesus taught no was was expecting the Church age. When Jesus spoke, He was relating to what the Jews could relate to. The Tribulation will be the cause for the end of the Church age (Rapture) and the resuming of the Jewish age. Resumed to the end of the Jewish age, which will take seven years to complete.

grace and peace...

 

[inquiring mind]

Neither. Now, can you answer my question?

If Jesus was referring to neither of the categories you gave me to choose from, then in what manner of good do you think He was referring to?

 

[inquiring mind]

That's a great message. It was given to Jews.

Jesus came to show Jews how to be perfect Jews. After all, Jesus was the perfect Rabbi.

During that time the Pharisees had corrupted Judaism, and Jesus came as a reformation to get back to what God intended for the Jews. The Church age was yet hidden and a mystery. One that no one was to yet know about.

Jesus was revealing Judaism to the Jews as God intended it to be. Its why Jesus hated the corrupt effects the influence of the Pharisees had been causing in the land.

We are now commanded to love one another as He has loved us. Back then they were commanded to love others as one loves oneself. New command for the Church. Jesus taught Judaism as it should have been. The Church is a new and different spiritual way of life that Jews could not have fulfilled without the indwelling Holy Spirit in each believer as the means to have the grace power to live that new life. They had Law. We have grace.

So, your answer to Hammster's question, "Is the good that we do in order to be chosen done in the flesh or the Spirit?" is...

 

[Hammster]

If Jesus was referring to neither of the categories you gave me to choose from, then in what manner of good do you think He was referring to?

Why are you avoiding my question?

 

[GenemZ]

So, your answer to Hammster's question, "Is the good that we do in order to be chosen done in the flesh or the Spirit?" is...

We don't do anything to become chosen. That would be salvation by works.

We who are chosen should find ourselves doing right . But,only if we walk in the Spirit.

One can be chosen (saved) yet fail to do what God intends for the chosen.

That factor can be seen in the following passage!

"For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid,
which is Jesus Christ (believing in Christ). Now if anyone builds
on this foundation (having believed in Christ) with gold, silver,
precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each one’s work will become
clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by
fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is.
If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive
a reward. If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but
he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire." 1 Cor 3:11-15​

Those believers who refuse to walk in the Spirit? They will follow their own brand of religion (wood, hay, and straw) while using the name of Jesus to justify what they have chosen to follow.

At the Lord's evaluation of the believers all their self righteous works will be burned and destroyed by fire. Yet, it says that they will remain saved. Saved like a man running from a burning house while losing all his possessions. But, he remains saved.

No rewards for the self righteous believer. But, salvation of his soul is forever. They can not lose their salvation! But.. They can lose their eternal rewards. Rewards that the Lord would have been overjoyed to have given with open arms.

If we deny what the Word says? Play games with meanings? We deny Him.

If we deny Him? He will deny us eternal rewards. But, we can not lose our salvation.

For we are the Bride of Christ. We have become One as He is Everlasting Flesh.

"If we endure, (staying with the Word)
we will also reign with him.
If we disown him, (denying the Word)
he will also disown us; (deny us rewards)
if we are faithless,(walk withoutout sound doctrine)
he remains faithful,
for he cannot disown himself." 2 Tim 2:12-14
​

The Lord and His Bride have become one everlasting Flesh. He can not deny Himself! Therefore, we who play games with God's Word remain saved in spite of our unfaithfulness.


Elect angels also have failed Him.

But, they remain his own, for they do not reject Him as Lord.

"If God places no trust in his servants,
if he charges his angels with error." Jb 4:18

​

No one who has believed in the Lord can lose their salvation! Even angels can not.
We are able to lose rewards. Lose honors to be had while in His presence. Deep eternal honor.

.​

 

[redleghunter]

to be dead ... one had to have an existence (self awareness) ... so no ... nothing is nothing.

The spiritual deadness as in Ephesians 2.

 

[zoidar]

Before or after He chooses?

Jesus told His disciples He chose them.

John 15: NASB

16“You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you. 17“This I command you, that you love one another.

Isn't that about Jesus choosing the twelve as apostles?

 

[redleghunter]

Isn't that about Jesus choosing the twelve as apostles?

Absolutely. Does God choose any differently with others?

God chose Abraham not Omar.

God chose Jacob but not Esau.

God chose Israel but not Egypt.

 

[zoidar]

Absolutely. Does God choose any differently with others?

God chose Abraham not Omar.

God chose Jacob but not Esau.

God chose Israel but not Egypt.

Maybe God chooses for purpose but not for salvation?

 

[redleghunter]

Maybe God chooses for purpose but not for salvation?

Ephesians 1 shows God’s plan of salvation was before the foundations of the earth. Therefore an eternal plan.

 

[eleos1954]

The spiritual deadness as in Ephesians 2.

To have a spiritual deadness one must first have a physical "container" for the mind.

We were created with a container (a body with a mind) and when we go to be with the Lord ... we get a new container (a new body with a mind)

If one never existed ... then neither of these existed, nor can they exist.

1 Corinthians 15:40

[URL='https://biblehub.com/greek/2532.htm'] 40 [URL='https://biblehub.com/greek/2532.htm']There [/URL]a[/URL]re heavenly bodies and earthly bodies. But
the splendor of the heavenly bodies is of one degree, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is of another.

 

[zoidar]

Ephesians 1 shows God’s plan of salvation was before the foundations of the earth. Therefore an eternal plan.

It can be discussed if Eph 1 is talking about the individual or the body of believers.

 

[redleghunter]

To have a spiritual deadness one must first have a physical "container" for the mind.

We were created with a container (a body with a mind) and when we go to be with the Lord ... we get a new container (a new body with a mind)

If one never existed ... then neither of these existed, nor can they exist.

1 Corinthians 15:40

40 There are heavenly bodies and earthly bodies. But
the splendor of the heavenly bodies is of one degree, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is of another.

Ephesians 2: NASB

1And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, 2in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.3Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. 4But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

 

[redleghunter]

It can be discussed if Eph 1 is talking about the individual or the body of believers.

Individuals make up the body of believers.

Ephesians 1: NASB

3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love 5He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,6to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved. 7In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace 8which He lavished on us. In all wisdom and insight 9He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him 10with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth. In Him 11also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will, 12to the end that we who were the first to hope in Christ would be to the praise of His glory. 13In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.

 

[eleos1954]

Ephesians 2: NASB

1And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, 2in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.3Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. 4But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

Ecclesiastes 9:5

For the living know they will die; but the dead do not know anything, nor have they any longer a reward, for their memory is forgotten.

Without a container (with the mind) there is nothing for the Lord to work through ... one does not exist.

The Lord is eternal ... we are not .... yet ;o)

I don't disagree with any scripture directly posted from the Word of God.

The conversation stemmed from this:

I guess with a 21st century mindset we could say Adam and Eve were created against their will.

Adam and Eve didn't have the capacity of will until they WERE created ... they didn't exist therefore they didn't have a will.

Will end it here, we are off topic ;o)

 

[zoidar]

Individuals make up the body of believers.

Ephesians 1: NASB

3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love 5He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,6to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved. 7In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace 8which He lavished on us. In all wisdom and insight 9He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him 10with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth. In Him 11also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will, 12to the end that we who were the first to hope in Christ would be to the praise of His glory. 13In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.

Yet any individual can enter or leave the body of believers.

 

[martymonster]

The many called = Christians.
The few chosen = The Elect.

BTW: It's many are called, few are chosen.....not few CHOOSE. That is two entirely different things.

 

[redleghunter]

Yet any individual can enter or leave the body of believers.

I did not see that in Ephesians 1.

But might be another topic of discussion.

 

[GenemZ]

The spiritual deadness as in Ephesians 2.

Spiritual deadness is the very reason Jesus said that we need to be born again. Regeneration (born again) makes us spiritually alive.

When we become born again we are given a human spirit which was begotten by the Holy Spirit which enables our soul to perceive and understand spiritual realities. Truths that God wants us to comprehend and to live by. We become able to know God.

Adam as he was originally created was unique among all men. For, the Hebrew does not say that the Lord simply breathed into his nostrils the "breath of life." The Hebrew really says that what was breathed into his nostrils was a plurality.

What was breathed into his nostrils? The breath of lives. Plural!

That plurality of "lives" confuses many translators. But, that is what the Hebrew actually says. A quick search with Google will confirm that the Hebrew states "lives" in a plurality.

Well, why a plurality?

Adam was not needing to be 'born again' when he came to life. He was not. Why? As created? He was without a fallen nature. Adam was created as Jesus was born. Sinless.

So what were the breath of LIVES?

The plurality of lives were Adam's soul and also having a human spirit! Having a soul and a human spirit? That made Adam to be a "living soul. Not, a spiritually dead soul.

"Then the Lord God formed a man from the dust of the ground
and breathed into his nostrils the breath of lives, and the man
became a living soul." Gen 2:7​

grace and peace....

 

[zoidar]

I did not see that in Ephesians 1.

But might be another topic of discussion.

No, not in eph 1. We can't make theology out of one book or chapter from the Bible. We need the whole Bible for that, and I think you agree.