is it peter the rock? or is it jesus?

[zoidar]

but why you wrote this, change 'me' for 'this rock' now, and comment me

Because you asked about about the theory about Jesus refering to himself "me" as the rock.

It was my answer, it does fit quite badly IMHO if he was refering to himself.

 

[lambofgod43985889]

Because you asked about about the theory about Jesus refering to himself "me" as the rock.

It was my answer, it does fit quite badly IMHO if he was refering to himself.

it is not a matter of grammar

 

[zoidar]

it is not a matter of grammar

It's not the grammer I'm talking about. He is talking to Peter telling him he is to be called Peter and then doesn't it seem weird he is then saying he is building the Church on himself, to continue that Peter will have the keys to heaven?

 

[JIMINZ]

Here's the direct Aramaic to English translation of the verse.
Show us the grammatical incorrectness of it.

("ap" - also)
("en-a" - I)
("e-mar" - say)
("'na" - (I))
("l'akh" - to you)
("d'at" - that you)
("haw" - are)
("kee-pa" - rock)
("w'al" - and upon)
("ha-de" - this)
("kee-pa" - rock)
("aeb-neyh" - I will build)
("l'eed-tee" - my Church)
("w'tar-aae" - and the gates)
("d'shee-ol" - of Sheol)
("la" - not)
("nekh-snaw-nah " - will subdue it)

There isn't a thing Grammatically wrong in the way it is written in the Bible, both in the Greek or the English Translation of it, the Grammatical error is in your understanding that Jesus was speaking about the TRUTH of Peters statement about Him being the Christ, the son of the living God, and not that peter was the ROCK of the Church.

 

[zoidar]

...

If you want another possibilty that I believe is more likely than Jesus referring to himself as the rock would be:

I think the rock Jesus was referring to was the truth Peter just said; that Jesus is the Son of God.

Still I believe he meant Peter.

 

[One Son]

it is not a matter of grammar

Hi,


Matt.16:17(ASV) And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jonah: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father who is in heaven. 18And I also say unto thee, that thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.

Rev.21:10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the holy city Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, 11having the glory of God: her light was like unto a stone most precious, as it were a jasper stone, clear as crystal:

Rev.21:17 And he measured the wall thereof, a hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of an angel. 18And the building of the wall thereof was jasper: and the city was pure gold, like unto pure glass. 19The foundations of the wall of the city were adorned with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, chalcedony; the fourth, emerald;

Rev.4:2 Straightway I was in the Spirit: and behold, there was a throne set in heaven, and one sitting upon the throne; 3and he that sat was to look upon like a jasper stone and a sardius: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, like an emerald to look upon.

upon this rock I will build my church;

The first foundation was jasper;

I think the jasper stone is the Father, not Peter.





Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.(2Cor.5:21).

 

[GraceBro]

some people say that jesus was talking about himself about the rock

matthew 16:18

In other words, "Is man the rock or is it God?"

That should clear up any confusion. Grace and Peace.

 

[Kid Knox]

I will quote @abacabb3 , hope he doesn't mind:
"the majority of fathers (about 70%) interpreted Matt 16:18 to mean the confession of Christ was the rock. Others thought the Rock was Christ Himself. Still others thought Peter himself was the rock, Cyprian being a notable example. Ironically, being that we know that Cyprian explicitly rejected Papalist ecclesiology in detail, this means that we cannot even take the small minority of fathers who thought Peter as the rock would have then subsequently interpreted that passage as a prooftext for Roman supremacy."

Maybe you are speaking of another Cyprian?
Cyprian of Carthage
“The Lord says to Peter: ‘I say to you,’ he says, ‘that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church.’ . . . On him [Peter] he builds the Church, and to him he gives the command to feed the sheep [John 21:17], and although he assigns a like power to all the apostles, yet he founded a single chair [cathedra], and he established by his own authority a source and an intrinsic reason for that unity. Indeed, the others were that also which Peter was [i.e., apostles], but a primacy is given to Peter, whereby it is made clear that there is but one Church and one chair. So too, all [the apostles] are shepherds, and the flock is shown to be one, fed by all the apostles in single-minded accord. If someone does not hold fast to this unity of Peter, can he imagine that he still holds the faith? If he [should] desert the chair of Peter upon whom the Church was built, can he still be confident that he is in the Church?” (The Unity of the Catholic Church 4; 1st edition [A.D. 251]).

 

[prodromos]

Maybe you are speaking of another Cyprian?
Cyprian of Carthage
“The Lord says to Peter: ‘I say to you,’ he says, ‘that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church.’ . . . On him [Peter] he builds the Church, and to him he gives the command to feed the sheep [John 21:17], and although he assigns a like power to all the apostles, yet he founded a single chair [cathedra], and he established by his own authority a source and an intrinsic reason for that unity. Indeed, the others were that also which Peter was [i.e., apostles], but a primacy is given to Peter, whereby it is made clear that there is but one Church and one chair. So too, all [the apostles] are shepherds, and the flock is shown to be one, fed by all the apostles in single-minded accord. If someone does not hold fast to this unity of Peter, can he imagine that he still holds the faith? If he [should] desert the chair of Peter upon whom the Church was built, can he still be confident that he is in the Church?” (The Unity of the Catholic Church 4; 1st edition [A.D. 251]).

No, same Cyprian. He argued that he himself sat upon the Chair of Peter, so he cannot be referring to the seat in Rome.

 

[misput]

Okay, so Peter's compromise in that very chapter proves that neither he nor his faith can be the rock that Jesus was speaking of. He went on to have a key role in building the church up, but he was not the chief foundation stone of the church.

Only the very gullible would believe anyone but Christ is the rock of the universal church.

 

[parousia70]

So...let me get this straight:

Jesus was saying to Simon, "I'm naming you Rock and giving you the keys to the kingdom, but you aren't really Rock and you don't really get the keys to the kingdom."

Is that the gist?

 

[misput]

So...let me get this straight:

Jesus was saying to Simon, "I'm naming you Rock and giving you the keys to the kingdom, but you aren't really Rock and you don't really get the keys to the kingdom."

Is that the gist?

Gee, I wonder if you are Catholic,

 

[zoidar]

It's found in the same verse where you find that Jesus said He was giving the key's only to Peter?

This may end up into dangerous thinking: "Jesus is saying he is the way to life. Does he say he is the only way to life?"

Actually our archbishop in our liberal Swedish church put it that way.

 

[prodromos]

So...let me get this straight:

Jesus was saying to Simon, "I'm naming you Rock and giving you the keys to the kingdom, but you aren't really Rock and you don't really get the keys to the kingdom."

Is that the gist?

No.
Jesus named Simon, "Rock" after the truth that was revealed to him by His Father. That statement of truth regarding Jesus being the Christ, the Son of the living God, was the rock which Jesus said He would build His Church on.
Also, no one said anything about Peter not getting the "keys to the kingdom", only that he was not getting them exclusively.

 

[JIMINZ]

This may end up into dangerous thinking: "Jesus is saying he is the way to life. Does he say he is the only way to life?"

Actually our archbishop in our liberal Swedish church put it that way.

Strange you should ask, because YES HE DOES, your Archbishop is totally wrong, give him this verse for me.

John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Where does the Bible say that?

He was speaking to all of them

 

[JIMINZ]

Where does the Bible say that?

Mat 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Mat 16:20 Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.

Jesus was speaking to all of the Disciples not just Peter.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

So...let me get this straight:

Jesus was saying to Simon, "I'm naming you Rock and giving you the keys to the kingdom, but you aren't really Rock and you don't really get the keys to the kingdom."

Is that the gist?

He was already nicknamed that when they first met in John 1:24 and in a separate sentence, He told them all they have the keys...

 

[Yahkov]

Not exactly sure on the durability of a Peter rock. Now Jesus is Christ is a very strong, unbreakable rock. If I am building my house, I am going to have to go with the Jesus rock and I'll have to pass on the Peter rock.

In the scope of the Gospel, makes very little sense that Peter is a rock Jesus would build His church upon.

"For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ." - 1 Corinthians 3:11

Seems pretty clear that Jesus Christ is the rock of which He builds the church.

 

[zoidar]

Mat 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Mat 16:20 Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.

Jesus was speaking to all of the Disciples not just Peter.

13 Now when Jesus came into the district of Caesarea Philippi, He was asking His disciples, “Who do people say that the Son of Man is?” 14 And they said, “Some say John the Baptist; and others, Elijah; but still others, Jeremiah, or one of the prophets.” 15 He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” 16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” 17 And Jesus said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. 18 I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.” 20 Then He warned the disciples that they should tell no one that He was the Christ.

Yes, you are right! Jesus is not only talking to Peter but his disciples. If we read the whole passage, it seems Jesus talks about Peter's proclamation that Jesus is the Son of the living God. But I don't know. Then maybe the rock is everyone who proclaims what Peter did, that Jesus will build his Church on believers? Thanks!

But doesn't the name Peter or Cephas mean rock? Or did that meaning of the name originate from this passage?