God loves everyone?

[Hammster]

No I wouldn’t say it has nothing to do with God if He must first enable is to repent before we can repent. If it were not for His grace we would be incapable of repentance. So He plays the bigger part of our salvation.

But if a person is dead, and stays dead, who is responsible?

 

[BNR32FAN]

But if a person is dead, and stays dead, who is responsible?

We are the ones who are judged by God so we are responsible because God has everyone to repent. So nobody has any excuse for not believing or their fate in judgement.

 

[Hammster]

We are the ones who are judged by God so we are responsible because God has everyone to repent. So nobody has any excuse for not believing or their fate in judgement.

Interesting. So whether we are alive or dead, lost or found, blind or seeing, has nothing to do with God, but is a result of our own decision. Am I getting close?

The question is still valid.

 

[BNR32FAN]

The question is still valid.

No because it’s implying that God has nothing to do with our repentance when I specifically said that we cannot repent unless He enables us. So it has everything to do with God.

 

[Hammster]

No because it’s implying that God has nothing to do with our repentance when I specifically said that we cannot repent unless He enables us. So it has everything to do with God.

But you cannot say what He does. You have this vague “God does something” theology that has God responsible/not responsible, and us responsible/not responsible. You have dead people who may or may not be able to do something. Basically, it comes off as trying to not be Calvinism, but not really anything else, either.

 

[BNR32FAN]

But you cannot say what He does. You have this vague “God does something” theology that has God responsible/not responsible, and us responsible/not responsible. You have dead people who may or may not be able to do something. Basically, it comes off as trying to not be Calvinism, but not really anything else, either.

I’m sorry I don’t have all the answers, only God does. I’m not the least bit afraid to say “I don’t know” on the topics that aren’t explained in the scriptures. Personally I believe the term “I don’t know” should be encouraged in these situations instead of trying to assume what God has done. I don’t really think we need to know how God enables us to repent just that He does enable us so we know exactly who is responsible for our disobedience.

 

[Hammster]

I’m sorry I don’t have all the answers, only God does. I’m not the least bit afraid to say “I don’t know” on the topics that aren’t explained in the scriptures. Personally I believe the term “I don’t know” should be encouraged in these situations instead of trying to assume what God has done. I don’t really think we need to know how God enables us to repent just that He does enable us so we know exactly who is responsible for our disobedience.

Okay. What scriptures do you have that shows that He gave everyone alive in Noah’s day the ability to repent?

 

[BNR32FAN]

Okay. What scriptures do you have that shows that He gave everyone alive in Noah’s day the ability to repent?

God’s expectations and judgement of man are evidence that He has made them capable of repentance otherwise He would not expect them to repent.

 

[Hammster]

God’s expectations and judgement of man are evidence that He has made them capable of repentance otherwise He would not expect them to repent.

Okay. Then you really don’t have any scripture that says that everyone alive in Noah’s day was given the ability (whatever that means) to repent.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Okay. Then you really don’t have any scripture that says that everyone alive in Noah’s day was given the ability (whatever that means) to repent.

Then your saying that God expected the impossible from them and judged them based on something that they are incapable of doing. He might’ve just as well said ok if you can fly to heaven I’ll let you in the gate and when they asked where is heaven God would reply that’s your problem figure it out otherwise I’m going to throw you into the lake of fire to be tormented for all eternity. Is that your God? It’s certainly not my God.

 

[Hammster]

Then your saying that God expected the impossible from them and judged them based on something that they are incapable of doing. He might’ve just as well said ok if you can fly to heaven I’ll let you in the gate and when they asked where is heaven God would reply that’s your problem figure it out otherwise I’m going to throw you into the lake of fire to be tormented for all eternity. Is that your God? It’s certainly not my God.

He judged them because they sinned. Though your theology cannot support this, that’s why people are in hell...because of sin.

 

[BNR32FAN]

He judged them because they sinned. Though your theology cannot support this, that’s why people are in hell...because of sin.

But according to you they had no choice. They had no alternative because they were not chosen by God. They were predestined to fail and God knew this before creation. So it still makes no sense that He would grieve in His heart when they had no alternative and He could’ve saved them but chose not to. It would also be unjust to judge them for not meeting impossible expectations.

 

[Hammster]

But according to you they had no choice. They had no alternative because they were not chosen by God. They were predestined to fail and God knew this before creation. So it still makes no sense that He would grieve in His heart when they had no alternative and He could’ve saved them but chose not to. It would also be unjust to judge them for not meeting impossible expectations.

They had a choice. They chose to sin. That grieves God.

This isn’t difficult.

 

[BNR32FAN]

They had a choice. They chose to sin. That grieves God.

This isn’t difficult.

According to the doctrine of total depravity a person CANNOT be born again UNLESS God chooses them. So how did they have a choice not to sin? Were they capable of refraining from sin if they are not chosen by God?

 

[Hammster]

According to the doctrine of total depravity a person CANNOT be born again UNLESS God chooses them. So how did they have a choice not to sin? Were they capable of refraining from sin if they are not chosen by God?

The elect need to be born again because of sin. We aren’t forced to sin because of that. We sin because it’s in our nature to do so. That grieves God.

 

[BNR32FAN]

The elect need to be born again because of sin. We aren’t forced to sin because of that. We sin because it’s in our nature to do so. That grieves God.

Please answer the question, can a person repent if he is not chosen by God?

 

[Hammster]

Please answer the question, can a person repent if he is not chosen by God?

Yes.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Yes.

How does that not contradict the doctrine of total depravity?

Total depravity (also called radical corruptionor pervasive depravity) is a Christian theologicaldoctrine derived from the concept of original sin. It is the teaching that, as a consequence of the Fall of Man, every person born into the world is enslaved to the service of sin as a result of their fallen nature and, apart from the efficacious or prevenient grace of God, is utterly unable to choose to follow God, refrain from evil, or accept the gift of salvation as it is offered.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Jonaitis said: ↑
John 3:16 refers to mankind in general, not every individual person, as the context is a conversation between Jesus and a Jewish teacher about salvation.

If God loved every human being ever born, then all would have been saved by the blood of Jesus.

And there is is Calvinist rub. The rest of us believe Christ did die for all and so, all are loved by God.

So what happens to the hundreds of billion souls that have died since Adam and Eve?

The Restitution Of All Things

Kindgdom Bible Studies Savior of the World Series Part 1

God Will Have All Men Be Saved

On this earth there are more than seven billion people! The most populous lands are China, India, and other parts of Asia, and in spite of missionaries from the West, actually more than half of all people on the earth have never so much as heard the ONLY NAME BY WHICH MEN MAY BE SAVED - the name of JESUS CHRIST! For your Bible says....... "there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved" (Acts 4:12). This means that billions of people here on this earth have lived, and died, without having known anything about God's provision of salvation - without saving knowledge - neither having heard the only name by which men may be saved! Now think what that means. If all unsaved are eternally lost, then more than HALF the people who have ever lived on this earth have been consigned to eternal hell without ever having been given so much as a chance to escape it!

What about the millions of people living now in the modern nations of Red China where the Gospel is suppressed? Those people did not choose to be born into these godless nations. Are they lost forever because they never heard the true message of God's love in Christ? Is this their only day of salvation? Are they eternally doomed when they die? Will a just God and Saviour condemn to eternal damnation those people who died before the true Gospel was ever brought to them? Is God about to "shut the door" of mercy in their face?

We hear much today about evangelizing and saving the world in one generation. The preachers tell us this mission must be accomplished before Christ can return, and it must be done in this generation. We hear of glorious revival at home and abroad, of fresh missionary efforts in various directions, of great Crusades attended by tens and sometimes hundreds of thousands, of radio and television beamed by satellite to all the nations of earth, and of large sums being devoted to these endeavors: and we get the idea that adequate efforts are being made for the evangelization of the nations of the earth. It is estimated today that the world's population is over seven billion, and it is a fact that considerably more than one-half - nearly two-thirds - are still TOTALLY HEATHEN, and the remainder are mostly either followers of Mohammed or members of those great apostate Churches whose religion is practically a Christianized idolatry, and who can scarcely be said to hold or teach the Gospel of Christ.

And what about the multiplied billions who have gone before and never had any contact with the living Christ? Even if all the people of this one generation could be saved, it would be only a infinitesimal fraction of the people who have ever lived, and there would be no victory for God, for the devil would still possess the vast majority of mankind. It is estimated that about one hundred and sixty billions of human beings have lived on the earth in the six thousand years since Adam's creation. Of these, the very broadest estimate that could be made with reason would be that less than three billion were truly saints of God. This broad estimate would leave the immense aggregate of one hundred and fifty seven billions (157,000,000,000) who went to their graves without faith and hope in the only name given under heaven or among men whereby we must be saved. Indeed, the vast majority of these never knew or heard the name of Jesus, and could not believe in Him of whom they had not heard. What, I ask, has become of this vast multitude, of which figures give a wholly inadequate idea? What is, and is to be, their condition? Did God make no provision for these, whose condition and circumstances He must have foreseen? Or did He, from the foundation of the world, make a wretched and merciless provision for their hopeless, eternal torment, as many of His children claim? Can you really believe that is the plan by which the all-wise, all-merciful, loving God is working out His purpose here on earth? WHAT IS THE TRUTH?

Paul, in I Tim. 2:1-6, gives the answer! "I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for ALL MEN ... for this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; who WILL HAVE A-L-L M-E-N TO BE SAVED, and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; who gave Himself a RANSOM FOR ALL, to be testified in due time." This text is one of rare beauty. It is indeed like a precious diamond, the effulgence of whose radiance dazzles the mind. It is a drop of pure distilled essence, whose fragrance fills the rooms of the heart. It is a joy forevermore and a challenge to everyone who reads it with an understanding heart. It should be engraved upon the heart of every saint of God. There is so much depth to that text that I am afraid that we often do not even perceive it. It is like a beautiful sky of deep rich blue and one cannot even begin to grasp the vast depth above us. So it is with this passage!

The few laws that Scripture contains are rays of light revealing only small portions of God's will, much as the words I write are parts of the thought I wish to express. He who would know the complete will of God must look for the larger concept, discover the real objective. One main objective is given us in our text for this study: "I exhort therefore, that ... supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for ALL MEN ... for ... God our Saviour ... WILL HAVE A-L-L M-E-N TO BE SAVED, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth." The will of God is so far beyond our usual thoughts that we simply cannot understand it unless the Spirit enlightens us. The eternal God WILL have all men to be saved! We need to ask God to fill our minds with this great truth, by the Holy Spirit.

 

[sdowney717]

You know John 3:19-21 could mean that even ones evil deeds also, which it says all of all men's or man's, as in "every mans deeds" are wicked or evil in his sight, or are as filthy rags, even the ones we might consider or call good ones by good men... but the one "not hating the light" comes to the light, so that his deeds might be reproved, and he might change them possibly, or God could change them for him, or they could change them together, and to show, that even those deeds though, were all wrought in the will of God the Father ultimately, in the end...

God Bless!

Jesus is speaking about those who come to the Light, the emphasis is on those who come to Christ, their deeds are forged (wrought) in God's purpose and will for them.

21 But he that doeth the truth cometh to the light, that his works may be made manifest, that they have been wrought in God.

However I can accept that those who do not come,, their disbelief, has been appointed, destined by God to their fate as Peter says here.

1 Peter 2
7 Now to you who believe, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe,

“The stone the builders rejected
has become the cornerstone,”

8 and,

“A stone that causes people to stumble
and a rock that makes them fall.”

They stumble because they disobey the message—which is also what they were appointed to , destined for.

to which they also were appointed. NKJV
which is also what they were destined for. NIV

Peter then tells US who believe we are a chosen people that He called out of darkness, into His marvelous light to sing our praise to Him, He would have done this by His will for us, but not for the others.

9 But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light. 10 Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.

Hebrews 4 teaches that All God's works were finished from the foundation of the world, and on the 7th day God rested from all His works.

Which proves we were chosen from the foundation of the world to be in Him, as Ephesians 1 teaches us He predestined us, chose us in Him.

Grace, grace, grace and peace be unto you from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 1
4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5 he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves.

7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace 8 that he lavished on us. With all wisdom and understanding, 9 he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, 10 to be put into effect when the times reach their fulfillment—to bring unity to all things in heaven and on earth under Christ.

11 In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will,