The Billy Graham Rule Goes to Court

[redleghunter]

If the man cannot train a female officer because he fears the appearance of sin, he needs spiritual help.

What about in the spirit of the #Metoo? The woman is to be believed and the man would have to prove his innocence.

The Billy Graham rule seems suitable for this generation too. The Police dept just had to assign another observer to the training.

 

[seeking.IAM]

It seems to me that "rule" only applies in a male dominated world. I work in a female dominated profession, where I could not possibly do my job if I refused to meet alone with a woman. Should I have told my female boss I'm not coming to her supervision meeting because I can't meet with her alone? There would have been a word for that: "Unemployed."

Men shouldn't blame women for their lust and lack of self control.

 

[Not David]

Muslim men and women don't like to be alone with their opposite sex either. I don't think you will call them primitives.

 

[public hermit]

If the man cannot train a female officer because he fears the appearance of sin, he needs spiritual help.

I'm inclined to agree with this.

 

[RDKirk]

It strikes me that the Billy Graham rule can only really work for highly privileged people who can structure their working situations as they please; (and even then I'm not convinced it's a good thing).

We have to be sure we know what Billy Graham's rule actually was.

Graham said that when he was away from home--away from his wife--for weeks at a time on an evangelistic crusade, that he practiced never being alone with a woman. In that situation, he did not have dinners with women or spend time with women outside the company of other members of his crusade.

Remember that Graham was a celebrity--people knew him by sight. In that circumstance, that was a solid practice.

 

[usexpat97]

In that circumstance, that was a solid practice.

That doesn't rule out that there are other circumstances.

Officer Torres, the plaintiff, called in for backup during an incident where he had to use his taser on two people fighting, where there was a gun involved. Sergeant Carter, his male boss, ignored the request for backup. This is a boss who certainly did not have his back. He wouldn't outright harm him, but we see Torres placed in situations where "accidents" were more likely to happen.

If Torres, or his wife, felt he was in such a circumstance, that is good enough.

 

[RDKirk]

That doesn't rule out that there are other circumstances.

Officer Torres, the plaintiff, called in for backup during an incident where he had to use his taser on two people fighting, where there was a gun involved. Sergeant Carter, his male boss, ignored the request for backup. This is a boss who certainly did not have his back. He wouldn't outright harm him, but we see Torres placed in situations where "accidents" were more likely to happen.

If Torres, or his wife, felt he was in such a circumstance, that is good enough.

What you wrote didn't make any sense.

 

[RDKirk]

Agree.
This is an officer who has confessed to his employer that he can't be trusted to be alone with women.
The EEOC gives employers some leeway/exception in the religious accommodation rules.

If that is the case, then he has rendered himself unfit to be a police officer at all.

We already have cases of police officers using their power to coerce women into sex. A police officer in Oklahoma City was recently convicted of that. If he can't be trusted alone with women, he can't be trusted to wear a badge and carry a gun.

 

[AlexDTX]

How sad she would tell lies like that. Cathy has no idea who Billy was or is.

I don't believe she is lying. She documents her book extensively. Years ago I believed that George Bush, Jr was a genuine born again Christian because he said that Billy Graham had led him to Christ. But I have researched mind control since that time. Cathy was freed from mind control and I have read of others who were also freed from mind control. Fritz Springmeyer co-authored a book with Cisco Wheeler, a former mind control programmer, on the process of traumatic abuse in mind control. They cause the mind to compartmentalize so that in one compartment one believes they are born again Christians, while in another compartment of their mind they can be sexual perverts or assassins. Despite the number of large campaigns that Billy Graham conducted, the statistics show that very few people became life long followers of Christ from those campaigns. Billy Graham was the "approved" presidential chaplain for a long series of presidents, both Republican and Democrat. On the surface one would think it was because he was so honorable. But consider those presidents. Some of them (Clinton & Bush Sr) are outright criminals.

How sad that so many Christians lack discernment and believe so many lies.

 

[RaymondG]

Maybe he will later refuse to arrest female suspects.........cant be alone with them in the police car...

I think it is clear that this persons beliefs made him unfit for this job...

 

[RDKirk]

It's a wise practice for both of them. One of the posts in this thread addressed that it's not simply a matter of a police officer "refusing to train" a female. He asked for flexibility that would align with his beliefs.

It is refusal to train a woman.

The fact is that it's a specific part of his job. It's not different from when I was in the military. When I'd attained a certain rank and certified job proficiency, training more junior personnel--including women--was part of my job. It was right there in black and white.

If I claimed I could not do that for any particular reason, then I was "not fully mission capable." It would be the same as being physically disabled. That lowers the mission capability of the entire unit.

 

[brinny]

That doesn't rule out that there are other circumstances.

Officer Torres, the plaintiff, called in for backup during an incident where he had to use his taser on two people fighting, where there was a gun involved. Sergeant Carter, his male boss, ignored the request for backup. This is a boss who certainly did not have his back. He wouldn't outright harm him, but we see Torres placed in situations where "accidents" were more likely to happen.

If Torres, or his wife, felt he was in such a circumstance, that is good enough.

i agree. Praying for Mr. Torres and his wife and his family.

 

[FenderTL5]

Officer Torres, the plaintiff, called in for backup during an incident where he had to use his taser on two people fighting, where there was a gun involved. Sergeant Carter, his male boss, ignored the request for backup. This is a boss who certainly did not have his back. He wouldn't outright harm him, but we see Torres placed in situations where "accidents" were more likely to happen.

What does this story have to do with the officer's refusal to work along side a woman? I don't see any correlation at all as presented.

 

[Yarddog]

What about in the spirit of the #Metoo?

The man didn't want to be in the car with the woman. What does the woman have to with it?

The woman is to be believed and the man would have to prove his innocence.

Was there any allegations?

The Billy Graham rule seems suitable for this generation too. The Police dept just had to assign another observer to the training.

I didn't read anything against the woman in the article. There is also absolutely nothing wrong with them working together. If there is a problem it lies in Torres.

 

[redleghunter]

The man didn't want to be in the car with the woman. What does the woman have to with it?

He is avoiding a situation where he will be responsible to prove his innocence.

Was there any allegations?

That's the point. Most of the #Metoo accusations are a "he said she said with no witnesses."

I didn't read anything against the woman in the article. There is also absolutely nothing wrong with them working together. If there is a problem it lies in Torres.

It seems the problem always is with the man in the dialogue.

 

[redleghunter]

If the man cannot train a female officer because he fears the appearance of sin, he needs spiritual help.

I don't think this is the case.

 

[RaymondG]

i agree. Praying for Mr. Torres and his wife and his family.

Dont forget to also say a prayer for the many women who will not be considered for jobs because they are women and the religion the boss/co-workers are apart of, forbids them to work together with women.......a religion which may be the same as the one the woman subscribes to.

In this situation the Man had a choice......the women did not......she needed training and the one assigned to do so, refused......and is now being deemed holy and just for doing so, by some....

 

[redleghunter]

Dont forget to also say a prayer for the many women who will not be considered for jobs because they are women and the religion the boss/co-workers are apart of, forbids them to work together with women.......a religion which may be the same as the one the woman subscribes to.

In this situation the Man had a choice......the women did not......she needed training and the one assigned to do so, refused......and is now being deemed holy and just for doing so, by some....

So we should refuse women chaperones when they ask for them?

 

[RaymondG]

So we should refuse women chaperones when they ask for them?

If this man stated, before taking the job, that he required a chaperone whenever left alone with a women....you would have a good case. Watchers cost money....they need to be paid. I believe the manager would prefer one who could do the job without a chaperone and would have passed on this candidate for this reason.

I find no fault in this mans decision.....I think it unwise, however, to make it a religious matter, as those born of God need no chaperone.....for God is always present.

 

[usexpat97]

What does this story have to do with the officer's refusal to work along side a woman? I don't see any correlation at all as presented.

Let's start at the beginning, then. Then why is that in the lawsuit complaint? Surely his lawyer didn't just randomly put it there.