we are ALL PREDESTINED

mark kennedy

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I believe that Salvation is 100% based on the Blood of Jesus. It would not matter if you were a Muslim. If you are washed and cleansed in the Blood of Jesus then you are going to be saved.
That's true, even if your saved at the Great White Throne and never heard of Jesus before.
 
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Ken Rank

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I believe that Salvation is 100% based on the Blood of Jesus. It would not matter if you were a Muslim. If you are washed and cleansed in the Blood of Jesus then you are going to be saved.
Agreed... but our walk only begins there... we are then expected to pick up our cross and begin a grand journey. Too many seem to think once we are saved the journey is over... it isn't, it's just begun.
 
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nolidad

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This end goal requires diligent cooperation with God to arrive at, the process can be resisted, and the process can be interrupted in an individual and even never completed because of an individual's turning back on God (which can include believing in the delusion of Calvinism which denies the need for such diligent cooperation and continuance).

Isn't that funny. I know of no Calvinist who doesn't scream for the need for holiness! It seems it is those of the Armenian persuasion that are delusional!

But the bible handed down through the ages says that He who has begun a good work in us shall perform it until that day!

You make mans will supreme over Gods will! If Gods want s amn- but He odesn't want to be saved- too bad God according to you!

Maybe you haven't gotten to these verses yet.

John 15:16
Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

John 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Romans 11:5
Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

Romans 9:11
(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)

Colossians 3:12
Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;

1 Thessalonians 1:4
Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.

1 Peter 1:2
Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

1 Peter 5:13
The church that is at Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you; and so doth Marcus my son.


INSTEAD OF CALLING IT CALVINISM, WE SHOULD CALL IT WHAT IT IS-SOUND BIBLICAL DOCTRINE!!!
 
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nolidad

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I don't mean to be argumentative but the verses which you have in mind that you base your statements on would be helpful.

I know what your saying is true about Ephesus, Corinth, Rome I just need to see the context in order to be able to fully understand what was being said at the time.

Romans 8:33
Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

1 Peter 5:13
The church that is at Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you; and so doth Marcus my son.

1 Peter 1:2
Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Titus 1:1
Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

1 Thessalonians 1:4
Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.

Colossians 3:12
Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;

Romans 9:11
(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)

Ephesians 1:4
According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: (chosen is eklegomai= to pick out for ones self)

Romans 8:29 [Full Chapter]
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Also foreknowledge is prognosis which means =
  1. foreknowledge

  2. forethought, pre-arrangement
 
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JIMINZ

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I believe that Salvation is 100% based on the Blood of Jesus. It would not matter if you were a Muslim. If you are washed and cleansed in the Blood of Jesus then you are going to be saved.

A Muslim, washed and cleansed in the Blood of Jesus, is no longer a Muslim, he has become a Believer in Christ, and rejected Muhammad. :amen:
 
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zoidar

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A Muslim, washed and cleansed in the Blood of Jesus, is no longer a Muslim, he has become a Believer in Christ, and rejected Muhammad. :amen:

Sorry for an OT post, but a muslim contacted me a few days ago on FB. He had seen I wear a crucifix necklace on my pic. He tried quite aggressively to make me convert to Islam. It made me think of our discussions here on CF. We are brothers and sisters even we disagree on theology, and we got a common enemy, the many different faces of the accuser.
 
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JIMINZ

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Or possibly just being called.

Parable Of The Seed
Don't fall away.
Study the Word.
Don't be the seed planted on rocky ground.
M-Bob

Not true, my responce was in regard to the verse referenced by renniks #116

If however, salvation is offered to all, praying fervently availith much.

Jas. 5:16
Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

A righteous man, is a reference made by James towards a Christian.
 
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renniks

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Maybe you haven't gotten to these verses yet.

John 15:16
Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

John 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Romans 11:5
Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

Romans 9:11
(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)

Colossians 3:12
Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;

1 Thessalonians 1:4
Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.

1 Peter 1:2
Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

1 Peter 5:13
The church that is at Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you; and so doth Marcus my son.

Do you think arminans don't know the word "elect" is in the Bible? God chooses the elect, so we agree. And the condition for choosing someone for salvation is faith. We do not in any way save ourselves, and of course, God could have chosen any condition. But scripture is clear that election is based on faith in Christ.
 
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joshua 1 9

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A Muslim, washed and cleansed in the Blood of Jesus, is no longer a Muslim, he has become a Believer in Christ, and rejected Muhammad. :amen:
I do not think he has to make a public confession because that could get him killed. Salvation is not based on works. I do not see any problem with them showing "respect" for the Muslim faith if they are going to continue to live in a Muslim country. Do you think he has to leave his family and loved ones behind, perhaps get a divorce and move to a christian country to be saved?
 
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joshua 1 9

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That's true, even if your saved at the Great White Throne and never heard of Jesus before.
I do not believe there is anyone that has not heard of Jesus. The great commission is to take the gospel to the very ends of the world. I believe generation after generation has done that.
 
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If some are destined for damnation and some for salvation from their mother's womb, praying or not praying is of no use whatsoever. Whatever will be will be.

The path to eternal destruction is an earned thing; not a "predestine" thing. We all earn God's wrath; for those who are predestine to redemption though, Christ atoned for our sin.

It is a common thing for humans to want to pray. That I believe is a consequence of being created in God's image and certainly those born of the Spirit pray because the Holy Ghost instills in them the desire to do so.

Technically, you are correct. Praying will do you no good if God will not hear your prayers on account of arrogance. Yet, one who truly is born of the Spirit has not that attitude.
 
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ajcarey

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Isn't that funny. I know of no Calvinist who doesn't scream for the need for holiness! It seems it is those of the Armenian persuasion that are delusional!

But the bible handed down through the ages says that He who has begun a good work in us shall perform it until that day!

You make mans will supreme over Gods will! If Gods want s amn- but He odesn't want to be saved- too bad God according to you!

Maybe you haven't gotten to these verses yet.

John 15:16
Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

John 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Romans 11:5
Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

Romans 9:11
(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)

Colossians 3:12
Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;

1 Thessalonians 1:4
Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.

1 Peter 1:2
Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

1 Peter 5:13
The church that is at Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you; and so doth Marcus my son.


INSTEAD OF CALLING IT CALVINISM, WE SHOULD CALL IT WHAT IT IS-SOUND BIBLICAL DOCTRINE!!!

You make God out to be the author of damnation for those who were not unconditionally elected like you believe. God's will is not always done nor does the Bible teach that election is unconditional. You make everything wicked men do to be God's will by saying everything God wills happens. That is horribly blasphemous. Man's will is only exalted when it opposes his creator- not when it yields to Him like Calvinists try to claim! That yielding is called living faith, God commands it, expects it, and no one will be in heaven without it. Nor does the Bible teach that men cannot resist God's drawing and God's keeping power. The warnings to Christians in the New Testament about resisting God's grace and falling away are too numerous to mention; and if you studied your Bible carefully and stopped trusting Calvinist preachers you would see that. Romans 9 is about the wrong approach of the majority of the Jews in seeking God and how God is not obligated to save them because they are the physical seed of Abraham. You just have to read Romans 9 to 11 in the flow of Romans and not rip single phrases and verses out of context to know that.
 
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renniks

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The path to eternal destruction is an earned thing; not a "predestine" thing. We all earn God's wrath; for those who are predestine to redemption though, Christ atoned for our sin.

It is a common thing for humans to want to pray. That I believe is a consequence of being created in God's image and certainly those born of the Spirit pray because the Holy Ghost instills in them the desire to do so.

Technically, you are correct. Praying will do you no good if God will not hear your prayers on account of arrogance. Yet, one who truly is born of the Spirit has not that attitude.
You're avoiding the obvious. How can eternal destruction be earned for someone who has no alternative? Is it his fault that he sins, if that is exactly what he was born to do? God's anger is always directed at those who don't repent, and it would be unjust if God poured out anger on people he created for no other purpose but ultimate destruction. Our perfect example of what God is is found in Christ, who spoke of people being invited to the wedding feast but refusing, and then being cast out... But they were invited.
 
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JIMINZ

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I do not think he has to make a public confession because that could get him killed. Salvation is not based on works. I do not see any problem with them showing "respect" for the Muslim faith if they are going to continue to live in a Muslim country. Do you think he has to leave his family and loved ones behind, perhaps get a divorce and move to a christian country to be saved?

All of that C--- was not in question when you made your original statement to which I responded.
 
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The Righterzpen

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How can eternal destruction be earned for someone who has no alternative?

The wages of sin is death. (A wage is earned.)

Is it his fault that he sins, if that is exactly what he was born to do?

The heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked. (Yet a person does not need to act upon that wicked inclination; thus "the wages of sin". Motivation is a big part of sin, but it's not the only part.)

God's anger is always directed at those who don't repent, and it would be unjust if God poured out anger on people he created for no other purpose but ultimate destruction.

Romans 9:
17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

Our perfect example of what God is is found in Christ, who spoke of people being invited to the wedding feast but refusing, and then being cast out... But they were invited.

"Many are called, few are elect."
 
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I do not think he has to make a public confession because that could get him killed. Salvation is not based on works. I do not see any problem with them showing "respect" for the Muslim faith if they are going to continue to live in a Muslim country. Do you think he has to leave his family and loved ones behind, perhaps get a divorce and move to a christian country to be saved?

Former Muslims in some cases have a very difficult road to walk. I know of many situations where they are secret believers whom it's possible that only missionaries who they'd met briefly know they are believers. These are folks who need our prayers!
 
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JIMINZ

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How can eternal destruction be earned for someone who has no alternative?

Rom. 3:23
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Rom. 5:12
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Is it his fault that he sins, if that is exactly what he was born to do?

Psa. 14:3
They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Psa.53:3
Every one of them is gone back: they are altogether become filthy; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Our perfect example of what God is is found in Christ, who spoke of people being invited to the wedding feast but refusing, and then being cast out... But they were invited.

Those people were the Jews as a People as a Nation they rejected their Messiah and they were therefore cast out, and God be thanked, His Salvation passed on to the Gentiles until the time of the Gentiles would come full, then the Jews as a People as a Nation will come to their Messiah.

How many Jews would you suppose have come to Christ in the last 2,000 yrs. ?

Where do you suppose they are, and why?
 
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renniks

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The heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked. (Yet a person does not need to act upon that wicked inclination; thus "the wages of sin". Motivation is a big part of sin, but it's not the only part.)
You are being dishonest about what Calvinism teaches, a reprobate doesn't have to act upon his wicked inclination? C'mon, at least be consistent with your theology.
Here is a quote from,R.C. Sproul: "that is to say, from all eternity God decreed some to election and by divine initiative works faith in their hearts and brings them actively to salvation. By the same token, from all eternity God decrees some to sin and damnation (destinare ad peccatum) and actively intervenes to work sin in their lives, bringing them to damnation by divine initiative. In the case of the elect, regeneration is the monergistic work of God. In the case of the reprobate, sin and degeneration are the monergistic work of God..."
 
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zoidar

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You are being dishonest about what Calvinism teaches, a reprobate doesn't have to act upon his wicked inclination? C'mon, at least be consiinitiative.your theology.
Here is a quote from,R.C. Sproul: "that is to say, from all eternity God decreed some to election and by divine initiative works faith in their hearts and brings them actively to salvation. By the same token, from all eternity God decrees some to sin and damnation (destinare ad peccatum) and actively intervenes to work sin in their lives, bringing them to damnation by divine initiative. In the case of the elect, regeneration is the monergistic work of God. In the case of the reprobate, sin and degeneration are the monergistic work of God..."

"By the same token, from all eternity God decrees some to sin and damnation (destinare ad peccatum) and actively intervenes to work sin in their lives, bringing them to damnation by divine initiative."

I see no biblical support to that R.C. Sproul quote. Where on Earth did he get that from?
 
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You are being dishonest about what Calvinism teaches, a reprobate doesn't have to act upon his wicked inclination? C'mon, at least be consistent with your theology.
Here is a quote from,R.C. Sproul: "that is to say, from all eternity God decreed some to election and by divine initiative works faith in their hearts and brings them actively to salvation. By the same token, from all eternity God decrees some to sin and damnation (destinare ad peccatum) and actively intervenes to work sin in their lives, bringing them to damnation by divine initiative. In the case of the elect, regeneration is the monergistic work of God. In the case of the reprobate, sin and degeneration are the monergistic work of God..."

You are the one being dishonest about what "Calvinism" (actually the doctrines of grace as they are found in the Scripture) teach.

God is not the author of sin. A reprobate does not have to act upon their wicked inclination to sin. An adulterer does not have to have an affair. A murderer does not have to kill someone. You do not have to steal things from the store. You do not have to cheat on your income tax. There are examples every day of the unregenerate who are morally obedient; at least to some degree.

Scripture also says that God restrains sin. He does this on multiple levels. You are born with a conscience. You're born into a family that's there to train you in how to restrain your natural inclination to .... throw a tantrum when you're two years old. Your family most likely is involved with some sort of organization that reinforces morality. You likely are a member of some sort of religious (or civic) organization.

If you were born in the United States in the past 100 years, you were mandated to attend school. School is one organization that reinforces morality. School isn't just learning how to read, write and do math. School has a very real social component to it.

You live in a society that has laws that if you break them; you potentially face punishment. (Even execution depending on what you've done.) All of these are natural ways God has instituted to restrain sin.

It's only a small segment in society who manifest wickedness with no restraint. Some end up in jail and others end up dead, either at the hands of another law abiding citizen with a weapon, a cop, another criminal, or executed by the state. Some commit suicide. Some are taken out by God directly via "poetic justice" by accidents, illness, or natural disasters.

People who are reasonably moral die too. None of us get out of here alive and we all know we are accountable to God.

There are those who would never admit that they know; but they know! "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who hold the truth in unrighteousness." And this certainly applies to those who twist the Scripture and try to blame God for sinners' just condemnation, (such as you are doing right now).

And as far as that quote from R.C. Sproul; another example of your dishonesty. You took it out of context. He was explaining double predestination, which he subsequently proceeded to argue against. Here's the article, if you care to actually read it?

Dr. R.C. Sproul on double predestination
 
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