catholics, i am a protestant, i want to hear you

Landon Caeli

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Evangelism is specifically teaching the Gospel to unbelievers so that they will become believers.

Yes. But this thread is about understanding Catholicism. There is no evangelization here.
 
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☦Marius☦

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We are called to evangelize in hopes others will change their minds about Jesus, so there is an obligation.
Then perhaps you should go to the non- Christian section before assuming the salvation status of other Christians.
Let God guide you to the right church. Don't try to be Catholic if He has other ideas.
What if his ideas guide her to Catholicism, or Orthodoxy? What if the Holy Spirit doesn't in fact have a multiple personality disorder and there is in fact one interpretation of scripture and one Church? What if when Christ said the Church would stand against the gates of hell he meant it? What if the Apostolic councils the apostles set in motion by the guidance of the Holy Spirit are actually how we are supposed to do things since that's how they told us? What if all the Christian Fathers of the first 15 centuries before anything resembling Protestantism existed were in fact right, and the Church wasn't "re" founded by Martin Luther?
And did they "incur death"?

At whose hands did they die by?

Inquisition?
The inquisition only killed about 2000 people over a 400 year period, people sentenced to death by the crown. The inquisitions job was to help give a chance for the person to repent and avoid a death sentence from the government. They tried to save heretics not condemn them. Condemning them was what the governments were doing.

Evangelism is specifically teaching the Gospel to unbelievers so that they will become believers.
Implying that Catholics are unbelievers
 
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☦Marius☦

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It is the same for both children and adults. Your age does not affect when or if you lose your salvation.
Really? You think God judges Children on the same level as adults? You think he expects the same understanding from a baby?
 
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☦Marius☦

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Faith has been practiced in a multitude of ways though the millennia. The only way to know for sure if you're doing it correctly is the Biblical text, not mere tradition.
Then why do evangelicals have 10,000 denominations all who claim to have the interpretation the Holy Spirit gave them? Does the Holy Spirit have a multiple personality disorder? No. There is only one Truth, and only a handful of Churches in the modern world can have claim to that truth. (the ones who follow the church fathers to some varying degree) Tradition is exactly what preserves that truth, and that is exactly why Paul COMMANDS us to keep it.
 
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Dave G.

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You do realize how condescending that is though, right? To say that what you think is 'better' than what someone else thinks...
Go ahead, the noose just tightens from here. Go for it. IE every time we look in a mirror we are convicted aren't we, if we are honest with ourselves.
 
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GodLovesCats

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Really? You think God judges children on the same level as adults? You think he expects the same understanding from a baby?

The first time a person sins, he or she gets the death penalty. Is it impossible for babies to sin?
 
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GodLovesCats

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Then why do evangelicals have 10,000 denominations all who claim to have the interpretation the Holy Spirit gave them? Does the Holy Spirit have a multiple personality disorder? No. There is only one Truth, and only a handful of Churches in the modern world can have claim to that truth. (the ones who follow the church fathers to some varying degree) Tradition is exactly what preserves that truth, and that is exactly why Paul COMMANDS us to keep it.

Why do YOU think one donomination is 10,000?
 
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Ken Rank

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renniks

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Really? You think God judges Children on the same level as adults? You think he expects the same understanding from a baby?
A better question would be what you think happens to babies who die without being baptized into the Catholic church. Those who believed in babies being baptized in the past seemed concerned that they would be damned otherwise.
Is this biblical?
But Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me and do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of heaven.”
 
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renniks

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And it's condescending, as Jesus never said anywhere in the bible that certain Christian's had any obligation to bother other Christians with scriptural or ecclesiastical discrepancies.
But Paul spends a considerable amount of time on doing just that and warning us to avoid false teachings, so...
 
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☦Marius☦

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The first time a person sins, he or she gets the death penalty. Is it impossible for babies to sin?
No but God also isn't a robot. The final Judgement is just that, a judgement.
Why do YOU think one donomination is 10,000?
What?
A better question would be what you think happens to babies who die without being baptized into the Catholic church. Those who believed in babies being baptized in the past seemed concerned that they would be damned otherwise.
Is this biblical?
But Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me and do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of heaven.”
Like I said, it's more about communing children then it is about "what if they die"
 
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☦Marius☦

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But Paul spends a considerable amount of time on doing just that and warning us to avoid false teachings, so...
As well as telling us to keep the traditions they handed down to us by word of mouth to avoid confusion. I assume you also keep that teaching of Paul as well?
 
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renniks

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Like I said, it's more about communing children then it is about "what if they die"
I still have no idea what that means. If I followed the traditions passed down by the Catholic Church, I would have to believe weird stuff that isn't biblical, like unbaptized babies going to limbo.
 
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☦Marius☦

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I still have no idea what that means. If I followed the traditions passed down by the Catholic Church, I would have to believe weird stuff that isn't biblical, like unbaptized babies going to limbo.

Which is why I am not Roman Catholic. There is more than one apostolic church. Orthodoxy hasn't changed its doctrine in almost 1300 years which is why we have much fewer Renaissance era rationalization theology. The entire reason the EOC and RCC split was over the issue of how doctrine should be decided. Orthodoxy remains democratic in the hope that the Holy Spirit guides the Church as a whole, and so we remain faithful to the traditions handed down by the fathers and Councils. Rome has changed so much since the schism that much is no longer recognizable.
 
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GodLovesCats

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No but God also isn't a robot. The final Judgement is just that, a judgement

You are downplaying the importance of being saved right there.

Why did you say one denomination is 10,000 denominations? That is mathematically impossible.

You said:
Then why do evangelicals have 10,000 denominations all who claim to have the interpretation the Holy Spirit gave them?

IOW one denomination equals 10,000 denominations. 1 < 10,000
Like I said, it's more about communing children then it is about "what if they die"

I have no idea what you are talking about .Nothing is more about "what if the die."
 
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☦Marius☦

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Why do YOU think one donomination is 10,000?
I didn't. Re read my post.
You are downplaying the importance of being saved right there.


Why did you say one denomination is 10,000 denominations? That is mathematically impossible.

You said:


IOW one denomination equals 10,000 denominations. 1 < 10,000


I have no idea what you are talking about .Nothing is more about "what if the die."
How am I downplaying salvation exactly?

And I am talking about babies here. How exactly are we supposed to get babies to understand the gospel? I'm not even sure what you are arguing for at this point. Seems like you are being controversial for the sake of it.
 
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GodLovesCats

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When you say a judgment "is just a judgment" that judgment is unimportant.

I always said babies should not be baptized because they can't understand God and choose to follow Him at their ages. The only question is are they able to understand disobedience, which is the same as sin?
 
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☦Marius☦

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When you say a judgment "is just a judgment" that judgment is unimportant.

I always said babies should not be baptized because they can't understand God and choose to follow Him at their ages. The only question is are they able to understand disobedience, which is the same as sin?

Look no offense, but are you even attempting to read and understand my posts?

No but God also isn't a robot. The final Judgement is just that, a judgement.
How do you get that I say the judgement is unimportant from that? You need to stop assuming beyond what I am typing and take the words for what they are. Judging something is taking all things into account. Its not simply a black and white as Christ will judge our faith, and how fruitful that faith was. He will spit the lukewarm out.

How is a baby able to understand disobedience? They can't even understand morality much less make a self judgement about what they should do.

Anyway my real question is why do you even care whether or not they are baptized as babies? Is Baptism not just a symbol to Evangelicals? Why would something that is just merely a symbol be such a hot issue for you?
 
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Landon Caeli

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Go ahead, the noose just tightens from here. Go for it. IE every time we look in a mirror we are convicted aren't we, if we are honest with ourselves.

I have no interest in converting anyone to Catholicism.
 
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