Who is responsible for our sanctification?

[Hammster]

Here’s my definition, if you will.

For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;
— Romans 8:29

And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.
— Romans 12:2

 

[Wordkeeper]

Why did He do what He did?

He learned obedience. The first son fails, the second succeeds, the first Adam fails, the second succeeds. The first Israel fails, the second succeeds. It's a very Jewish motif.

The first Israel fails in a way that is mentioned several times in the OT AND THE NT. She forgot the great works God did.

Psalms 78
42They did not remember His power--the day He redeemed them from the adversary,

Psalms 106
21They forgot God their Savior, who did great things in Egypt,

Hebrews 3
19So we see that they were not able to enter because of unbelief.

Why was it important for her to remember these great works? Because Moses reminded God that it would be difficult for human beings to leave serving selfishness to serve selflessness, without great reassurances.

Exodus 4
1Then Moses said, “What if they will not believe me or listen to what I say? For they may say, ‘The LORD has not appeared to you.’” 2The LORD said to him, “What is that in your hand?” And he said, “A staff.” 3Then He said, “Throw it on the ground.” So he threw it on the ground, and it became a serpent; and Moses fled from it. 4But the LORD said to Moses, “Stretch out your hand and grasp it by its tail”—so he stretched out his hand and caught it, and it became a staff in his hand— 5“that they may believe that the LORD, the God of their fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has appeared to you.”

But Christ remembered all the great works that God did, and learned that He needed to do them too, to bear fruit.

Hebrews 5
8Although He was a Son, He learned obedience from the things which He suffered.

Because He was the prophet that Scripture predicted would come, who was just like Moses, who would lead his people out of selfish living, by doing the great works, that the Father commanded him to do.

So also, you should remember the great works that God did in your life, to free you from selfish living. And live to manifest those great works to others, who are bound in futility, bound in serving selfishness, live in darkness, just as you once lived.

There is a certain way to know if you are saved or not: if you bear fruit. Become the spiritual father to those who leave selfish living. Here, in this earthly existence, whilst in the body.

 

[Hammster]

He learned obedience. The first son fails, the second succeeds, the first Adam fails, the second succeeds. The first Israel fails, the second succeeds. It's a very Jewish motif.

The first Israel fails in a way that is mentioned several times in the OT AND THE NT. She forgot the great works God did.

Psalms 78
42They did not remember His power--the day He redeemed them from the adversary,

Psalms 106
21They forgot God their Savior, who did great things in Egypt,

Hebrews 3
19So we see that they were not able to enter because of unbelief.

Why was it important for her to remember these great works? Because Moses reminded God that it would be difficult for human beings to leave serving selfishness to serve selflessness, without great reassurances.

Exodus 4
1Then Moses said, “What if they will not believe me or listen to what I say? For they may say, ‘The LORD has not appeared to you.’” 2The LORD said to him, “What is that in your hand?” And he said, “A staff.” 3Then He said, “Throw it on the ground.” So he threw it on the ground, and it became a serpent; and Moses fled from it. 4But the LORD said to Moses, “Stretch out your hand and grasp it by its tail”—so he stretched out his hand and caught it, and it became a staff in his hand— 5“that they may believe that the LORD, the God of their fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has appeared to you.”

But Christ remembered all the great works that God did, and learned that He needed to do them too, to bear fruit.

Hebrews 5
8Although He was a Son, He learned obedience from the things which He suffered.

Because He was the prophet that Scripture predicted would come, who was just like Moses, who would lead his people out of selfish living, by doing the great works, that the Father commanded him to do.

So also, you should remember the great works that God did in your life, to free you from selfish living. And live to manifest those great works to others, who are bound in futility, bound in serving selfishness, live in darkness, just as you once lived.

There is a certain way to know if you are saved or not: if you bear fruit. Become the spiritual father to those who leave selfish living. Here, in this earthly existence, whilst in the body.

If I’m in Him, I bear fruit.

Problem solved.

 

[Wordkeeper]

If I’m in Him, I bear fruit.

Problem solved.

1 John 2:6
Whoever claims to abide in Him must walk as Jesus walked.

 

[Hammster]

1 John 2:6
Whoever claims to abide in Him must walk as Jesus walked.

You’d better get on it, then.

 

[Wordkeeper]

You’d better get on it, then.

What's impossible for men is possible with God. Interesting thing is you can see fruit immediately.

 

[Hammster]

What's impossible for men is possible with God. Interesting thing is you can see fruit immediately.

So it’s God’s responsibility. That’s what I’ve been arguing for.

 

[watchman 2]

Here’s my definition, if you will.

For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;
— Romans 8:29

And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.
— Romans 12:2

Okay, sorry for the delay.

The question is, who is responsible for our sanctification?

Sanctification defined is, being separated from our sinful natures, to God.
Who is responsible for that? The Spirit of Christ does the sanctifying as a response to a person fulfilling Faith in Christ, answering the call of the Father.

 

[Wordkeeper]

So it’s God’s responsibility. That’s what I’ve been arguing for.

I mean you shouldn't give up like the rich young ruler. You should ask for terms of peace. There's a difference between saying it's God's responsibility and saying we're responsible, but it's difficult for modern people, who are like the rich of the first century: great amount of possessions. God can help here, all we have to do is ask.

Also, let's remember that Luther identified correctly that the problem with RCC theology was it's monetizing of merit, making the merit earned by past Saints into a tradeable commodity. He needed to find Scripture that condemned good works as input towards salvation and found it in Paul's teachings against works. Unfortunately, Paul was teaching against circumcision, works of the law.

 

[Wordkeeper]

Here’s my definition, if you will.

For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;
— Romans 8:29

And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.
— Romans 12:2

This is only saying that if there is transformation, it will take the shape of being conformed to the image of Chris . So if you see Christ, this is how you will look like. He is the prototype. And Christ is metonymy for picking up your cross, so that God's great works may be displayed. Nothing about being predestined for salvation.

1 Corinthians 15:49
And just as we have borne the likeness of the earthly man, so also shall we bear the likeness of the heavenly man.

Ephesians 1:5
He predestined us for adoption as His sons through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of His will,

Ephesians 1:11
In Him we were also chosen as God's own, having been predestined according to the plan of Him who works out everything by the counsel of His will,

 

[Hammster]

I mean you shouldn't give up like the rich young ruler. You should ask for terms of peace. There's a difference between saying it's God's responsibility and saying we're responsible, but it's difficult for modern people, who are like the rich of the first century: great amount of possessions. God can help here, all we have to do is ask.

Also, let's remember that Luther identified correctly that the problem with RCC theology was it's monetizing of merit, making the merit earned by past Saints into a tradeable commodity. He needed to find Scripture that condemned good works as input towards salvation and found it in Paul's teachings against works. Unfortunately, Paul was teaching against circumcision, works of the law.

I’m not sure what you mean there.

 

[Hammster]

This is only saying that if there is transformation, it will take the shape of being conformed to the image of Chris . So if you see Christ, this is how you will look like. He is the prototype. And Christ is metonymy for picking up your cross, so that God's great works may be displayed. Nothing about being predestined for salvation.

1 Corinthians 15:49
And just as we have borne the likeness of the earthly man, so also shall we bear the likeness of the heavenly man.

Ephesians 1:5
He predestined us for adoption as His sons through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of His will,

Ephesians 1:11
In Him we were also chosen as God's own, having been predestined according to the plan of Him who works out everything by the counsel of His will,

Well, the thread is about sanctification, not justification.

So there’s that.

 

[watchman 2]

Well, the thread is about sanctification, not justification.

So there’s that.

That remains to be seen.

 

[Hammster]

That remains to be seen.

I’m the OP, so I’m pretty sure that was my intent.

 

[watchman 2]

I’m the OP, so I’m pretty sure that was my intent.

Then act like it.
I replied to your question, respond.

 

[Hammster]

Then act like it.
I replied to your question, respond.

Wow. A bit touchy there.

 

[watchman 2]

Wow. A bit touchy there.

I take these topics seriously. My apologies.

 

[Hammster]

I take these topics seriously. My apologies.

It looked to me as if your questions were rhetorical since you gave answers. So I didn’t think there was anything to respond to.

 

[watchman 2]

It looked to me as if your questions were rhetorical since you gave answers. So I didn’t think there was anything to respond to.

Do you agree that sanctification comes by the Spirit of Christ, through Faith. Faith being a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender?

 

[Hammster]

Do you agree that sanctification comes by the Spirit of Christ, through Faith. Faith being a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender?

If I understand you correctly, then yes.