we are ALL PREDESTINED

lambofgod43985889

of christian forum
Supporter
Jun 28, 2018
1,132
385
temuco
✟155,137.00
Country
Chile
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Private
well, it's an intense debate, according to calvinism we are predestined so:
-the catholic will keep being catholic
-the protestant will keep being evangelical
-the christian orthodox will keep being orthodox
-the follower of judaism will keep their religion

maybe all these movements think they are right and the others religions lead to hell
 

Ken Rank

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jan 12, 2014
7,218
5,560
Winchester, KENtucky
✟308,895.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
well, it's an intense debate, according to calvinism we are predestined so:
-the catholic will keep being catholic
-the protestant will keep being evangelical
-the christian orthodox will keep being orthodox
-the follower of judaism will keep their religion

maybe all these movements think they are right and the others religions lead to hell
Or, maybe predestination simply means that from God's perspective, He knows the outcome. Since we don't however, we are told to choose. But I do believe that the Catholic will be a Catholic, and the Jew a Jew, and a Baptist a Baptist and that, in the end.... what we will finally look like is somewhere in between them all. :)
 
Upvote 0

Not David

I'm back!
Apr 6, 2018
7,356
5,235
25
USA
✟231,310.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
I never understood if I was predestined to like Taylor Swift (and cats).
tay cats.gif
 
Upvote 0

Presbyterian Continuist

Senior Veteran
Supporter
Mar 28, 2005
21,810
10,792
76
Christchurch New Zealand
Visit site
✟827,333.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
The Bible says that we are predestined to be conformed to the image of Christ. Some choose to go along with the Holy Spirit to develop their sanctification in that direction, and others don't.
 
Upvote 0

eleos1954

God is Love
Supporter
Nov 14, 2017
9,698
5,614
Utah
✟713,703.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
well, it's an intense debate, according to calvinism we are predestined so:
-the catholic will keep being catholic
-the protestant will keep being evangelical
-the christian orthodox will keep being orthodox
-the follower of judaism will keep their religion

maybe all these movements think they are right and the others religions lead to hell

The Lords people are all over the world ... His sheep are scattered and they know His voice.
 
Upvote 0

joshua 1 9

Well-Known Member
Supporter
May 11, 2015
17,420
3,592
Northern Ohio
✟314,577.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
maybe all these movements think they are right and the others religions lead to hell
There are seven churches that we read about in the book of Rev. However many churches there are, they are going to be one of those seven. Judaism has a different covenant with God. We are under the New Covenant based on better promises. We are the Bride, they are the friend of the Bridegroom.
 
  • Optimistic
Reactions: Pioneer3mm
Upvote 0

mark kennedy

Natura non facit saltum
Supporter
Mar 16, 2004
22,024
7,364
60
Indianapolis, IN
✟549,630.00
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
I don't think anyone is predestined to be Catholic or orthodox. I certainly don't think anyone who isn't a religious Christian is predestined to hell. I believe in trusting God to judge all things in righteousness.
 
Upvote 0

ajcarey

Well-Known Member
Jun 3, 2019
486
445
Midwest
✟46,967.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
God's chosen (i.e. elect) are all those who meet His conditions of repentance and faith in Christ. The Bible never speaks about God choosing individuals before the foundation of the world to heaven or hell. What God chose before the foundation of the world was His gracious and appropriate plan to send His Son to redeem sinners to Himself and restore them to His image. All who meet the conditions to partake in this plan are chosen (i.e. elect) due to their faithful identification with THE Chosen One, Jesus Christ.

1 Peter 2:4-11 "4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious, 5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. 6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded. 7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, 8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed. 9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy. 11 Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul"

John 3:17-20 "17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved."

John 3:35-36 "35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand. 36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him."
 
Upvote 0

JIMINZ

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2017
6,600
2,358
79
Southern Ga.
✟157,715.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
There are seven churches that we read about in the book of Rev. However many churches there are, they are going to be one of those seven. Judaism has a different covenant with God. We are under the New Covenant based on better promises. We are the Bride, they are the friend of the Bridegroom.

What would make anyone believe in this day and age, "We are the Bride of Christ"?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

JIMINZ

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2017
6,600
2,358
79
Southern Ga.
✟157,715.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
I don't think anyone is predestined to be Catholic or orthodox. I certainly don't think anyone who isn't a religious Christian is predestined to hell. I believe in trusting God to judge all things in righteousness.

Aren't the Children of the Jews, Catholics, and Orthodox all Predestined by their Churches, to become the same as their Parents, in the Practice of the same Religion?
 
Upvote 0

JIMINZ

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2017
6,600
2,358
79
Southern Ga.
✟157,715.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
God's chosen (i.e. elect) are all those who meet His conditions of repentance and faith in Christ. The Bible never speaks about God choosing individuals before the foundation of the world to heaven or hell. What God chose before the foundation of the world was His gracious and appropriate plan to send His Son to redeem sinners to Himself and restore them to His image. All who meet the conditions to partake in this plan are chosen (i.e. elect) due to their faithful identification with THE Chosen One, Jesus Christ.

The Jewish Believers of the First Church, were the ones spoken of as being the Chosen, the Elect.

These two terms do not relate to Gentiles at all.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: ICONO'CLAST
Upvote 0

jamesbond007

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Mar 26, 2018
1,080
280
Sacramento
✟118,568.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
In Relationship
maybe all these movements think they are right and the others religions lead to hell

It's not up to us to decide who goes to hell. Yet, we were all predestined before we were born. It's too confusing. Jesus did not come to save for nothing. He will be the final judge. Thus, we end up believing what we want to believe. We do not know what the future holds? I even met an atheist who trolled God by blaming him for retardation and evil, ignored Satan, but he said that Jesus paid for all of humandkind's sins. God only existed to take the blame. This is the free will that God gave us, so let us accept it with joy. It doesn't mean that our arguments will stop. It's business as usual in that regard. It means one continues to seek the truth and validate for themselves.
 
Upvote 0

Jonaitis

Soli Deo Gloria
Jan 4, 2019
5,191
4,204
Wyoming
✟122,609.00
Country
United States
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
well, it's an intense debate, according to calvinism we are predestined so:
-the catholic will keep being catholic
-the protestant will keep being evangelical
-the christian orthodox will keep being orthodox
-the follower of judaism will keep their religion

maybe all these movements think they are right and the others religions lead to hell

Predestination means that God was in charge of your salvation from start to finish.
 
Upvote 0

SkyWriting

The Librarian
Supporter
Jan 10, 2010
37,279
8,499
Milwaukee
✟410,918.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
well, it's an intense debate, according to calvinism we are predestined so:
-the catholic will keep being catholic
-the protestant will keep being evangelical
-the christian orthodox will keep being orthodox
-the follower of judaism will keep their religion

maybe all these movements think they are right and the others religions lead to hell
No debate.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

ajcarey

Well-Known Member
Jun 3, 2019
486
445
Midwest
✟46,967.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
God's chosen (i.e. elect) are all those who meet His conditions of repentance and faith in Christ. The Bible never speaks about God choosing individuals before the foundation of the world to heaven or hell. What God chose before the foundation of the world was His gracious and appropriate plan to send His Son to redeem sinners to Himself and restore them to His image. All who meet the conditions to partake in this plan are chosen (i.e. elect) due to their faithful identification with THE Chosen One, Jesus Christ.

1 Peter 2:4-11 "4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious, 5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. 6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded. 7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, 8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed. 9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy. 11 Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul"

John 3:17-20 "17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved."

John 3:35-36 "35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand. 36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him."
The Jewish Believers of the First Church, were the ones spoken of as being the Chosen, the Elect.

These two terms do not relate to Gentiles at all.

Not so. The Christians Peter wrote to were a mix of Jewish and Gentile Christians. All Christians who are submitted to Christ's Lordship and keep His Word are His chosen and elect. Do the following verses only apply to Jewish believers of the First Church? Of course not.

Mark 13:27 "And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

James 2:5 "Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?"

Luke 18:7 "And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?"

Colossians 3:12 "Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering"

And even if you were to make the insane conclusion that these verses only applied to Jewish believers of the first church (whatever you mean by that), it would still prove that choosing and election do not mean what the Reformed Theologians say it means.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: ICONO'CLAST
Upvote 0

JIMINZ

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2017
6,600
2,358
79
Southern Ga.
✟157,715.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
God's chosen (i.e. elect) are all those who meet His conditions of repentance and faith in Christ. The Bible never speaks about God choosing individuals before the foundation of the world to heaven or hell. What God chose before the foundation of the world was His gracious and appropriate plan to send His Son to redeem sinners to Himself and restore them to His image. All who meet the conditions to partake in this plan are chosen (i.e. elect) due to their faithful identification with THE Chosen One, Jesus Christ.

1 Peter 2:4-11 "4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious, 5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. 6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded. 7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, 8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed. 9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy. 11 Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul"

John 3:17-20 "17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved."

John 3:35-36 "35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand. 36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him."


Not so. The Christians Peter wrote to were a mix of Jewish and Gentile Christians. All Christians who are submitted to Christ's Lordship and keep His Word are His chosen and elect. Do the following verses only apply to Jewish believers of the First Church? Of course not.

Mark 13:27 "And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

James 2:5 "Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?"

Luke 18:7 "And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?"

Colossians 3:12 "Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering"

And even if you were to make the insane conclusion that these verses only applied to Jewish believers of the first church (whatever you mean by that), it would still prove that choosing and election do not mean what the Reformed Theologians say it means.

Did I say your belief was insane, NO, I just said it was wrong, but you attack that which you do not know nor understand as insane, (Typical Christian response) and by the way and those Reformed Theologians you speak of, they were wrong as well, and their being wrong, is precisely the reason you are.

When you learn how to do your own research of things and cease taking the Beliefs of others without, researching the truth of the matter beforehand, then maybe, just maybe you will then understand.

Sorry.

Your Jas 2:5 reference does not apply at all.
 
Upvote 0

mark kennedy

Natura non facit saltum
Supporter
Mar 16, 2004
22,024
7,364
60
Indianapolis, IN
✟549,630.00
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
Aren't the Children of the Jews, Catholics, and Orthodox all Predestined by their Churches, to become the same as their Parents, in the Practice of the same Religion?
I don't think it decides heaven and hell, dependinding on their secret motives. Churches and religious institutions don't descide heaven and hell for practitioners. My rule of thumb is we know what people do, God knows why.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

CharismaticLady

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jun 14, 2019
2,596
654
76
Tennessee
✟140,294.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Celibate
I don't think anyone is predestined to be Catholic or orthodox. I certainly don't think anyone who isn't a religious Christian is predestined to hell. I believe in trusting God to judge all things in righteousness.

Hi Mark,

I do think some are predestined, but others are in God's foreknowledge. Everyone in the genealogy to Noah was predestined, and then Shem's line to Abraham and Isaac. Jacob was predestined, but not Esau. The whole Jewish nation was predestined, but not the Edomites. David was predestined to be King, but not Saul, David's predecessor. The apostles were predestined including Judas so that prophecy could be fulfilled.

When you read the first chapter of Ephesians I see the "predestined" Paul is talking about is his people, the Jews to whom the message of the righteousness of God and the Messiah came.

Have you ever thought about it like that?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

joshua 1 9

Well-Known Member
Supporter
May 11, 2015
17,420
3,592
Northern Ohio
✟314,577.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
What would make anyone believe in this day and age, "We are the Bride of Christ"?
My reference was to our relationship with Jesus compared to the "Jewish" nations relationship with Jesus. This is a comparison. It is against the rules to suggest who will be a part of the Bride of Christ. This will be based on their Garment and having oil in their lamp.
 
Upvote 0