Church of England staring at oblivion as just 2% of young Britons say they identify with it

[anna ~ grace]

TLM?

Sorry! Traditional Latin Mass.

 

[redleghunter]

Sorry! Traditional Latin Mass.

Thanks. Don’t know if you ever venture over to Free Republic site. They have a large population of posters who share their Traditional Latin Mass experience.

 

[anna ~ grace]

I went a while back. I was really nervous, and was expecting me, and maybe a handful of really, really old people. It was absolutely packed with young families, young adults, middle aged people, and so many babies and toddlers. Totally not what I was expecting. Pretty awesome, though.

 

[anna ~ grace]

Thanks. Don’t know if you ever venture over to Free Republic site. They have a large population of posters who share their Traditional Latin Mass experience.

Hey, Red! This is the only social networking I do, much, but I can check it out. Thanks!

 

[Jonaitis]

It is also estimated that only 1 in 50 Italians attend church these days...and that is, uh, well, you know, an overwhelmingly CATHOLIC nation. But only on paper, it appears.

In the USA, Catholic membership is only slowing slipping, but that is because of the massive in-migration of millions of Latin Americans. If it were not for that, the membership decline in the American Catholic Church would be as startling as it is for some of the mainstream Protestant denominations.

I thought most Latin Americans identify as Catholic.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

I could imagine the Church being disestablished in the near future based on these results. This would also mean the monarchy would likely separate itself from the Church if a great majority of the population no longer attends to it. It might just be the best thing for the Church because what has the royalty or government done to encourage church growth? Nothing as far as I can tell.

So I can't help but feel it was the COE's willingness to give into secular demands instead of counter them and insist on being part of the Church as being a point of spiritual and national pride that is causing it to fall apart. To be English used to mean you were were Anglican and now being English means almost nothing except that you tolerate anything and anyone. That's not Christianity.

 

[Quid est Veritas?]

Disestablishing the Church of England is not particularly feasible. The Lords Spiritual still sit in the House of Lords, and trying to reform that chamber is a fight in and of itself. Not saying it might not happen eventually, but it would be a long slog that would take quite a lot of political capital to do, with few rewards, so for now the Bishops are safe and the Queen will remain their Defender of the Faith, no matter the decline of said faith.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Disestablishing the Church of England is not particularly feasible. The Lords Spiritual still sit in the House of Lords, and trying to reform that chamber is a fight in and of itself. Not saying it might not happen eventually, but it would be a long slog that would take quite a lot of political capital to do, with few rewards, so for now the Bishops are safe and the Queen will remain their Defender of the Faith, no matter the decline of said faith.

How does the Queen defend the faith exactly?

 

[Quid est Veritas?]

How does the Queen defend the faith exactly?

By Title. Oh, and the Monarch and Prime Minister must be of the Church of England due to all those old anti-Catholic laws.

 

[Paidiske]

I could imagine the Church being disestablished in the near future based on these results. This would also mean the monarchy would likely separate itself from the Church if a great majority of the population no longer attends to it. It might just be the best thing for the Church because what has the royalty or government done to encourage church growth? Nothing as far as I can tell.

So I can't help but feel it was the COE's willingness to give into secular demands instead of counter them and insist on being part of the Church as being a point of spiritual and national pride that is causing it to fall apart. To be English used to mean you were were Anglican and now being English means almost nothing except that you tolerate anything and anyone. That's not Christianity.

Actually, to be fair, the government funds the C of E very well. They have lots of money (compared to provinces where they're not Established) to do interesting and creative things in mission. (I've benefited from some of their resources, from the other side of the world!)

That said, my personal opinion is that Establishment has never really worked, and at some point will need to be abandoned. Not because of declining numbers but more because the ideal (of a national church which could embrace everybody) just doesn't match the reality (a secular pluralist society). I don't see it as a matter of the church having given in to secular demands, but it is true that being an Established church makes it harder to be counter-cultural when that's called for.

 

[Anthony2019]

I agree that the statistics show that there has been an overall decline in CofE membership over the years.
But if you go to the corner of every street in almost every hamlet, village, town or city in England, you will find a CofE church. They have a presence in just about every community. Some of the churches are dwindling in numbers, but others are thriving.
In my town, I have visited churches where virtually all of the pews have been empty during their only service on a Sunday. I have also been in churches where they have been so busy, it has been difficult to find a seat.
I have noticed a trend in my own church which I have seen mirrored in a similar CofE church I attended previously. I thought I would share it here.
We have various services on a Sunday and they differ greatly in numbers and the age of those attending them.
Our first service is the 1662 BCP communion service has a smaller, mostly elderly congregation, the majority of which attends regularly. The service is very short lasting no more than 30-45mins.
The second is the parish communion service using Common Worship which has much higher numbers, but again mostly people over the age of 40 and they attend regularly.
Our third service is the family communion service which is by far the busiest and attended by people of a wide variety of age groups including families with children.
Our evening service is a "fresh expressions" style service, where the liturgy is not used, worship songs are more contemporary. It is attended by a small group of people, mostly those in their 20-40s, many of them students. What I have found though is due to personal commitments, you get different people attending each week.
Through observing these trends, I have come up with the following conclusions:
- the timing of the service determines how many people will attend. Very few people, especially young people, or families with children, will attend an early morning service on a Sunday.
- most families with young children will not attend an evening service on a Sunday. Presumably this is because many children will be going to school the following day and their parents have to go to work.
- the busiest time where you are mostly like to attract regular congregants and visitors is usually mid morning on a Sunday. This gives most people ample time to prepare for the service and gives them the rest of the day to carry out other activities. The service itself tends to draw from a variety of worship styles, a mixture of old hymns and new songs which appeal to all ages. Very often baptisms and other events take place in this service.
Another thing I have noticed is that the busiest churches in the area are those which have more active evangelistic programmes, such as the Alpha course for example and have are open during the week for various aspects of ministry, eg. coffee mornings. It sends the message to the community that they are welcome to attend and participate. There is something very unwelcoming about a church whose door is closed all of the time with nothing but a billboard telling you the time of the service.
Just a few of my rambling thoughts.....

 

[Aussie Pete]

What were the major departures which led to this?

It's been a steady decline in the UK. Many senior clergy and theologians began to deny the spiritual dimension of Christianity. So the Virgin birth and the physical resurrection of Christ were rejected a long time ago. If you take Christ away, you have just dead ritual. I was compelled to attend an Anglican church for 3 years from the age of 10-13. I thought that eternity was sitting through church on Sunday. That was nearly 60 years ago. It's a little different in Australia as there is a strongly evangelical element, especially in Sydney. But there are great tensions between the non-spiritual and the evangelical groups. As the spiritual level of England has declined, other religions have flourished, especially Islam. My atheist father did me the greatest possible service by emigrating!

 

[Aussie Pete]

I agree that the statistics show that there has been an overall decline in CofE membership over the years.
But if you go to the corner of every street in almost every hamlet, village, town or city in England, you will find a CofE church. They have a presence in just about every community. Some of the churches are dwindling in numbers, but others are thriving.
In my town, I have visited churches where virtually all of the pews have been empty during their only service on a Sunday. I have also been in churches where they have been so busy, it has been difficult to find a seat.
I have noticed a trend in my own church which I have seen mirrored in a similar CofE church I attended previously. I thought I would share it here.
We have various services on a Sunday and they differ greatly in numbers and the age of those attending them.
Our first service is the 1662 BCP communion service has a smaller, mostly elderly congregation, the majority of which attends regularly. The service is very short lasting no more than 30-45mins.
The second is the parish communion service using Common Worship which has much higher numbers, but again mostly people over the age of 40 and they attend regularly.
Our third service is the family communion service which is by far the busiest and attended by people of a wide variety of age groups including families with children.
Our evening service is a "fresh expressions" style service, where the liturgy is not used, worship songs are more contemporary. It is attended by a small group of people, mostly those in their 20-40s, many of them students. What I have found though is due to personal commitments, you get different people attending each week.
Through observing these trends, I have come up with the following conclusions:
- the timing of the service determines how many people will attend. Very few people, especially young people, or families with children, will attend an early morning service on a Sunday.
- most families with young children will not attend an evening service on a Sunday. Presumably this is because many children will be going to school the following day and their parents have to go to work.
- the busiest time where you are mostly like to attract regular congregants and visitors is usually mid morning on a Sunday. This gives most people ample time to prepare for the service and gives them the rest of the day to carry out other activities. The service itself tends to draw from a variety of worship styles, a mixture of old hymns and new songs which appeal to all ages. Very often baptisms and other events take place in this service.
Another thing I have noticed is that the busiest churches in the area are those which have more active evangelistic programmes, such as the Alpha course for example and have are open during the week for various aspects of ministry, eg. coffee mornings. It sends the message to the community that they are welcome to attend and participate. There is something very unwelcoming about a church which its door closed all of the time with nothing but a billboard telling you the time of the service.
Just a few of my rambling thoughts.....

A few lights in the darkness. That is encouraging. Beats opening a playground to get people to visit a building.

 

[Albion]

Please tell me this is satire news:

Church of England to accept gay marriage if one changes gender after wedding | Metro News

I have no personal connection to the Church of England, but by many accounts over recent years it appears to be in sad shape overall. However, that is the trend of things in some parts of the world irrespective of denomination--which is the main thing I was pointing to earlier. In others, such as Africa, Christianity is doing well, the Anglicans as well as others. The largest Anglican national church in the world, by the way, is the Church of Nigeria.

 

[Albion]

I thought most Latin Americans identify as Catholic.

They are. I see how my wording misled you about this. The Catholic Church in the USA does not appear to be in serious decline as far as membership totals are concerned, but that is only because of the influx of Latin Americans who, yes, are mainly Catholic.

 

[Paidiske]

It's been a steady decline in the UK. Many senior clergy and theologians began to deny the spiritual dimension of Christianity. So the Virgin birth and the physical resurrection of Christ were rejected a long time ago. If you take Christ away, you have just dead ritual. I was compelled to attend an Anglican church for 3 years from the age of 10-13. I thought that eternity was sitting through church on Sunday. That was nearly 60 years ago. It's a little different in Australia as there is a strongly evangelical element, especially in Sydney. But there are great tensions between the non-spiritual and the evangelical groups. As the spiritual level of England has declined, other religions have flourished, especially Islam. My atheist father did me the greatest possible service by emigrating!

It is true that there have been some clergy (bishops Spong and Holloway come to mind, though neither were actually in England) who seem to have outlived their faith. That is a problem.

But the idea that that's true of the church as a whole is just false. And the idea that the evangelical wing of the church are the only ones who have a "spiritual dimension" is also false.

It's one thing to offer fair criticism, but it's another thing to use too broad a brush and slander whole groups of faithful Christians.

 

[Daniel9v9]

Sad statistics for sure, but I don't think it's all doom and gloom. It's my understanding that the Community of St Anselm initiative has been quite successful for passing on Christian devotion, liturgy and Anglican orthodoxy to young adults. I think a number of people from HTB, Hillsong and various non-denominational bodies have participated.

You can check it out at:
Home - The Community of St. Anselm

 

[Athanasius377]

Yes. Many, many Catholics from Latin America, South East Asia, and Africa near us. They are really strong. The Sudanese priest near us is awesome.

Lots of young families at the TLM, too. There are literally so many toddlers running around, you can barely hear.

Good Point GS. I have noticed the same thing in my area. There is an SSPV chapel offering the TLM just north of Cincinnati proper and it is packed to the rafters with young people. And these aren't the curious types that are here for a season and gone the next these are folks that are packing the church for confession on a Saturday afternoon. Of course there's the whole issue of whether the SSPV is legitimately catholic or not. Funny thing is the more a church fights to maintain its tradition and identity the more people attend.

 

[Strong in Him]

The Church of England has only itself to blame. It has shut God out for decades and now is reaping what it has sown.

Woah! Hold on a minute.
I was brought up as an Anglican but now go to another denomination.
I'm not a fan of institutionalised church in general; there is much wrong with the 'we need to get people into our church buildings, so that these buildings, and church as we know, it will continue', type of attitude.
But "shutting God out" is way too strong. I know many lovely people who have attended Anglican churches, heard the Gospel, become Christians and been ordained, become missionaries or continued to serve God as Christian GPs or whatever. My husband's CofE church is thriving, and he serves there as a lay reader. People are continuing to offer for ordination each year - not as many as maybe the powers-that-be would like - but God is clearly still calling people to, and blessing them in, this denomination.

There are also many faithful Christians, in this denomination and others, that pray for the future of our country.

 

[Halbhh]

In America, one of the most religious nations in the world:

Graphs: 5 signs of the 'Great Decline' of religion in America - Religion News Service


More recent:

Religion -- Gallup

I'd not worry too much, for a minor reason, and a major one.

First the minor reason: One thing that happened in the last 40 years is that many who only attended church for just tradition alone, or for social belonging alone, or for business contacts alone, have left. I think it's not mostly that real believers left, for this general decline.

But the real reason I'd not worry is Christ said near the last (getting near to it) that the love of many would grow cold due to the increase in lawlessness (including Christians not following Him it seems). And if we know anything, we know that all His words are true, so that will certainly happen, and we need not fear at all when it does.