I agree with you that the LXX does not seem to be the correct translation of Exodus 3:14, but I also question the KJV translation:One specific element of this is the "I AM" passages. Trinitarians tend to cite the OT Ex. 3:14 instance and Jesus' Abraham reference.
However, I've read the Greek Septuagint version of Ex. 3:14 and am confused. It seems to me that the Ex. 3:14 verse says (slightly para-phrasing) "I am the (one/ being). Tell the sons of Israel 'The (one/ being) has sent you'" - not "I am has sent you". I'd be interested in hearing others' views on this subject.
My amateur understanding is that Hebrew does not have past, present and future tenses, but complete and incomplete tenses. “Ehyeh” in Exodus 3:12 and Exodus 3:14 is in the incomplete tense and should be translated as future tense. In my fellowship this has been taught for over 150 years and I was brought up in this environment. I have had this reinforced by the three translations mentioned and the context. As well as this many others, some Trinitarians and some non-Trinitarians. I did part of a Hebrew course, 4 levels of 8 videos each, Beginners, Intermediate, Advanced and Translating. The instructor in Part 2 of the Intermediate Lesson gives “I will be” instead of “I AM” for Exodus 3:14. I watched a thorough-going forum thread where the subject was the meaning of the Yahweh Name and supporting “I will be”. Three or four others were in support of the “I AM” view. At least two of the participants agreed with the “I will be” explanation at the end. When “I will be” is properly understood it is very similar concept to the NT that the One God is the Father. But there are many Trinitarians and translations that support the “I AM” view, but I suggest that many prefer this because of the supposed link with John 8:58.I must admit - although language is a subtle thing, affected by context and changes over time, it seems strange to me that a seemingly straightforward phrase is clouded in doubt. I would have thought that it would be easy to distinguish between the present and future tense. I speak neither Hebrew nor Greek.
But the LXX even gives a different view and translation than the KJV. I doubt that this was because they had a different Hebrew text.It also seems strange to me that a work as respected as the LXX would make so seemingly basic an error.
In light of the opinion that the future is the correct tense in Ex3:14, how, if at all, do you think it affects the implications of Christ's "Before Abraham was, I AM" quote?
Possibly you missed my earlier comment above. The way I see it is that many link Exodus 3:14 and John 8:58, and this is evident from the KJV rendition of “I AM” in both places, thus alluding to the idea that Jesus is claiming the Name of God. I have seen some expositions where the other occurrences mentioned in John’s Gospel are then considered to be part of the “I AM” theme.As far as John 8:58, I connect this with John 8:24, 28 where the same words are translated “I am he”, part of the theme of whether Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God.
We can study the meaning of the Hebrew letters that make up the word. I AM in Hebrew is אֶֽהְיֶ֖ה Hebrew reads from right to left. So we have an Alef - Hei - Yod - Hei. When we study these four letters and their meaning we can understand what this word represents. Alef is the first letter in the alphabet. So in Greek this would be the letter alpha. We are told that Jesus is the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. We are told that God declares the end from the beginning. Alef here represents heaven and Earth and how the Torah was given to unite Heaven and Earth. Again this points to Jesus because He is the word of God. The Hei which is the second and the last letter represents a bent over or a humble servant. We are told: "the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.” Hei is pronounced HAY in English, a word used to draw attention.Are you aware of something specific that explains this matter?
Another interesting event occurred when Judas came with a detachment of soldiers from the Judean Rulers to arrest Jesus and notice what happened when Jesus said "I am He", they drew back and fell on the ground....why:Greetings again Airaux, Possibly you missed my earlier comment above. The way I see it is that many link Exodus 3:14 and John 8:58, and this is evident from the KJV rendition of “I AM” in both places, thus alluding to the idea that Jesus is claiming the Name of God. I have seen some expositions where the other occurrences mentioned in John’s Gospel are then considered to be part of the “I AM” theme.
I will let you decide which view you accept, but even in the following the KJV translators do not seem to support the “I AM” theme because in other places they translate the expression as “I am he” and similar and not “I AM”. This again shows the difficulty that we can have with other languages.
Firstly the following two are in the immediate context, in the same conversation by Jesus to the Jews:
John 8:24–28 (KJV): 24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. 25 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning. 26 I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him. 27 They understood not that he spake to them of the Father. 28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
A few other examples where the same words translated “I AM” in John 8:58 occur. The first is possibly the start of the theme of whether Jesus is the Christ, where John denies that he is the Christ:
John 1:19–21 (KJV): 19 And this is the record of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, Who art thou? 20 And he confessed, and denied not; but confessed, I am not the Christ. 21 And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No.
In the following Jesus directly states that he is the Christ, but he uses the same words as “I AM”:
John 4:25–26 (KJV): 25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things. 26 Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.
The following is the same words, but translated in a different order:
John 6:19–20 (KJV): 19 So when they had rowed about five and twenty or thirty furlongs, they see Jesus walking on the sea, and drawing nigh unto the ship: and they were afraid. 20 But he saith unto them, It is I; be not afraid.
The blind man uses the same expression:
John 9:8–9 (KJV): 8 The neighbours therefore, and they which before had seen him that he was blind, said, Is not this he that sat and begged? 9 Some said, This is he: others said, He is like him: but he said, I am he.
And there are most probably other examples, but here is another:
John 13:19 (KJV): Now I tell you before it come, that, when it is come to pass, ye may believe that I am he.
Kind regards
Trevor
Jhn 18:3John 12:31 "Now is the judgment of this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out.
John 14:30 "I will no longer talk much with you, for the ruler of this world is coming, and he has nothing in Me.
John 16:11 "of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judge
I am interested in what translation you are quoting from as the KJV has lower case "I am he". Jesus is answering and claiming to be Jesus of Nazareth. Do you assess that "I am He" is equivalent to the KJV "I AM" of John 8:58?Another interesting event occurred when Judas came with a detachment of soldiers from the Judean Rulers to arrest Jesus and notice what happened when Jesus said "I am He", they drew back and fell on the ground....why:
The ruler of this world coming, judged, cast out
Jhn 18:3 Then Judas, having received a detachment of troops, and officers from the chief priests and Pharisees, came there with lanterns, torches, and weapons.
Jhn 18:4 Jesus therefore, knowing all things that would come upon Him, went forward and said to them, “Whom are you seeking?”
Jhn 18:5 They answered Him, “Jesus of Nazareth.” Jesus said to them, “I am He.” And Judas, who betrayed Him, also stood with them.
Jhn 18:6 Now when He said to them, “I am He,” they drew back and fell to the ground.
Jhn 18:7 Then He asked them again, “Whom are you seeking?” And they said, “Jesus of Nazareth.”
Jhn 18:8 Jesus answered, “I have told you that I am He. Therefore, if you seek Me, let these go their way,”
In the Greek the "I am" in Jn 18:5-6 does not have the pronoun "he." It is italicized in the verses because it was added by the translatorsGreetings LittleLambofJesus,I am interested in what translation you are quoting from as the KJV has lower case "I am he". Jesus is answering and claiming to be Jesus of Nazareth. Do you assess that "I am He" is equivalent to the KJV "I AM" of John 8:58?
Kind regards
Trevor
Yes but do you agree with the KJV or seek to alter this to I AM? Please note that Jesus is answering that he is Jesus of Nazareth. Is Jesus saying more than this? The blind man used the same words and the KJV give the same translation "I am he", showing that we have some difficulty in translating this expression.In the Greek the "I am" in Jn 18:5-6 does not have the pronoun "he." It is italicized in the verses because it was added by the translators
John 18:5-6
(5) They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them.
(6) As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.
First I don't think we can use the blind man as an example because the blind were outcasts like lepers. They could not attend the temple or the synagogues so he likely did not know the significance of ego eimi. The Greek word for "he" does not occur in John 8:28, John 9:9, John 13:19, John 18:5, John 18:6. It was added by the translators for their own private reasons. The ISV has "I AM", without the pronoun.Greetings Der Alter,Yes but do you agree with the KJV or seek to alter this to I AM? Please note that Jesus is answering that he is Jesus of Nazareth. Is Jesus saying more than this? The blind man used the same words and the KJV give the same translation "I am he", showing that we have some difficulty in translating this expression.
Kind regards
Trevor