Why the Baptism with the Holy Spirit is not for Today

[BNR32FAN]

Why the Baptism with the Holy Spirit is not for Today

Understanding the Baptism with the Holy Spirit in Acts is difficult. But I found the keys are the Ethiopian Eunuch Acts 8:27 and the Samarians Acts 8:5. In essence, all had the Holy Spirit but only the Samarians had the Baptism with the Holy Spirit.

These received the gift of the Holy Spirit according to Peter in Acts 2:28 just as we do today. But the Samarians also received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit through the apostle’s hands which the Eunuch did not.

On Pentecost God baptized the 12 Apostles with the Holy Spirit who also spoke in tongues. According to Acts 2:38 the eunuch and the Samarians had the gift of the Holy Spirit through Philip’s preaching. But Philip could not provide the baptism of the Holy Spirit for either. Acts reveals that beyond the two outpourings, only the Apostles through the laying on of their hands could baptize people in the Holy Spirit. It was the proof of apostleship Hebrews 2:4.

When the Apostles visited the Samarian converts, they laid their hands on them baptizing them in the Holy Spirit. But this was not the case with the Eunuch. It says he went on his way rejoicing after Philip baptized him in water.

So the Samarians and the Eunuch received the gift of the Holy Spirit through Philip’s preaching. But only the Samarians received the baptism with the Holy Spirit through the Apostles’ hands.

About 7 years later, God poured out the Holy Spirit on the gentiles at Cornelius’ house which resulted in their speaking in tongues just as the Apostles did at Pentecost.

Scripture doesn’t mention the 3000 converts on the day of Pentecost as baptized with the Holy Spirit. Nor the 5,000 converts days later. But we might assume those whom the Apostles baptized in water also received the baptism with the Holy Spirit through their hands. But anyone baptized by someone other than an apostle would have been like the Eunuch who received only the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Later, Paul preached to the disciples at Ephesus Acts 19:1. These like the Eunuch received the gift of the Holy Spirit. But they also received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit through the apostle’s hands the same way the Samarians did.

The Baptism with the Holy Spirit provided God’s word through tongues and prophecy until the New Testament canon became complete. How do we know this? Paul says scripture thoroughly equips us 2 Timothy 3:17. Paul said tongues and prophecy provided only partial knowledge 1 Corinthians 13:9. So it makes sense scripture replaced them when completed.

Beyond Acts, the Corinthians no doubt received the Baptism with the Holy Spirit through Paul’s hands. And Paul mentioned he wanted to visit the Romans to give spiritual gifts to them too Romans 1:11. Paul mentions laying his hands on Timothy who also received a gift 2 Timothy 1:6.

So we can say scripture directly supports the Baptism of the Holy Spirit for those ministered to by an apostle. That it was not for all. The Baptism with the Holy Spirit passed into history with the rest of the apostles Hebrews 2:4 because only they provided it as a sign of their authority. And that scripture replaced the fragmentary gifts of tongues and prophecy with the completed revelation. And we can confidently say believers from Pentecost on have the gift of Holy Spirit according to Acts 2:38, but not the Baptism with the Holy Spirit. Just as the Eunuch and believers since then.

Where do the scriptures say the apostles were “baptized” with the Holy Spirit on Pentecost?

 

[Strong in Him]

Paul indicated the Book of Revelation would complete the canon and replace the gifts.

I doubt Paul even knew about, or conceived, the "canon of Scripture". If he had done, he would have been clear about which documents should be in it.
Those who compiled the canon were keen to include documents that were written by the apostles, or those close to them - i.e that had Apostolic authority. There would have been no need for such debate if they had just been able to ask the Apostle Paul for his opinion.

 

[Saint Steven]

You are changing or limiting the definition by turning all into Apostles. The Baptism is part of Apostleship. Clearly all did not perform the works on an Apostle other than those they laid hands on.

I am doing no such thing. My quote repeated below.

Here's an outline breakdown of my previous post.
1) Peter called what they saw and heard at the Pentecost outpouring "the promised Holy Spirit" (Acts 2:33)
2) He went on to say that when they are baptized (in water) they would "receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." (Acts 2:38)
3) In the next sentence he says: "The promise is for you and your children..." thus confirming that "the promise" and "the gift" are the same thing.
4) Now apply that to Acts 2:33. What they saw and heard at the Pentecost outpouring was the promise and the promise is the gift and the outpouring was the Baptism with the Spirit. All the same thing.

- Pentecost=the Baptism with the Spirit
- Pentecost=what they saw and heard
- What they saw and heard=the promised Holy Spirit (the promise)
- The promise=the gift of the Holy Spirit
- The promised Holy Spirit and the gift of the Holy Spirit=the Baptism with the Spirit

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
No. In Acts chapter two they are the same. When Peter explained to the onlookers what had happened in the outpouring, he called it the gift. He didn't use the term Baptism with the Holy Spirit for the outpouring. But we know that is what it was as prophesied by Jesus. Peter calls it the promise and then says the promise is the gift. Therefore the gift and the promise and the Baptism with the Spirit are all the same thing.

Acts 2:33, 38-39
33 Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear. ...
38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”

 

[Dave L]

I am doing no such thing. My quote repeated below.

Here's an outline breakdown of my previous post.
1) Peter called what they saw and heard at the Pentecost outpouring "the promised Holy Spirit" (Acts 2:33)
2) He went on to say that when they are baptized (in water) they would "receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." (Acts 2:38)
3) In the next sentence he says: "The promise is for you and your children..." thus confirming that "the promise" and "the gift" are the same thing.
4) Now apply that to Acts 2:33. What they saw and heard at the Pentecost outpouring was the promise and the promise is the gift and the outpouring was the Baptism with the Spirit. All the same thing.

- Pentecost=the Baptism with the Spirit
- Pentecost=what they saw and heard
- What they saw and heard=the promised Holy Spirit (the promise)
- The promise=the gift of the Holy Spirit
- The promised Holy Spirit and the gift of the Holy Spirit=the Baptism with the Spirit

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
No. In Acts chapter two they are the same. When Peter explained to the onlookers what had happened in the outpouring, he called it the gift. He didn't use the term Baptism with the Holy Spirit for the outpouring. But we know that is what it was as prophesied by Jesus. Peter calls it the promise and then says the promise is the gift. Therefore the gift and the promise and the Baptism with the Spirit are all the same thing.

Acts 2:33, 38-39
33 Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear. ...
38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”

You are defining the outpouring by the Apostle's portion. Trying to apply it to all. And all are (were) not Apostles.

 

[Dave L]

I doubt Paul even knew about, or conceived, the "canon of Scripture". If he had done, he would have been clear about which documents should be in it.
Those who compiled the canon were keen to include documents that were written by the apostles, or those close to them - i.e that had Apostolic authority. There would have been no need for such debate if they had just been able to ask the Apostle Paul for his opinion.

Paul provided the framework through prophecy that we understood after the fulfillment.

 

[Dave L]

Where do the scriptures say the apostles were “baptized” with the Holy Spirit on Pentecost?

Jesus said they would be, Also John the Baptist.

 

[Dave L]

So then you should provide Scripture saying that the baptism of the Spirit was only for a limited time and a select few, and would cease after the Apostles died.
Without Scripture, you are adding Scripture to your own ideas.

I have already proven this. The Apostles administered the Baptism (except for the two outpourings) and it ended with them.

 

[Dave L]

if the comparison is the Samaritan church then this language you are using is missing. the text says in Ch8 "When they arrived, they prayed for the new believers there that they might receive the Holy Spirit, because the Holy Spirit had not yet come on any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus" I read the text and conclude they don't have the Holy Spirit, you read it and say they have something called the fullness of the Spirit but not the baptism of the Spirit. The text doesn't seem to establish a difference between the two. So what did the Eunuch have? if it's the same as the Samaritan church pre-laying on of hands he would seem to be without.

fast forward to ch 19 and we see believers with the baptism of repentance but without the Holy Spirit (they didn't even know of the HS). There's not a lot of examples in Acts but they are surprisingly complete and seem to disagree with your conclusions.

Faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit and they were believers. You need to understand Luke's use of the term "Holy Spirit".

 

[Strong in Him]

I have already proven this. The Apostles administered the Baptism (except for the two outpourings) and it ended with them.

Sorry, you haven't proved it; you have given two incidents from Scripture and told us what you think they mean.

 

[Dave L]

Sorry, you haven't proved it; you have given two incidents from Scripture and told us what you think they mean.

I'm not aware of them. Please point them out.

 

[Strong in Him]

Paul provided the framework through prophecy that we understood after the fulfillment.

Paul wrote letters to the churches he had founded to answer any questions/resolve any problems they had, to address false teachings which he had heard were leading them astray or, as in the case of Romans, he was writing an introductory letter to a church he had not yet visited. Towards the end of his life his scrolls were beginning to be passed around the churches, but he had no idea that they, together with letters from James, Peter, John, the writer of Hebrews and the Gospel writers, would have their writings translated into other languages and bound into a book, together with the OT.

All things have not yet been fulfilled because Jesus has not yet returned again as king.

 

[DamianWarS]

Faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit and they were believers. You need to understand Luke's use of the term "Holy Spirit".

Faith like the disciples (120 of them)? When did they receive the HS and was it after they received faith? You leave a lot of voids in your explanations. Why don't I say "you need to understand how acts shows us how the HS works". Are you convinced now? See it doesn't work that way either.

 

[Dave L]

Faith like the disciples (120 of them)? When did they receive the HS and was it after they received faith? You leave a lot of voids in your explanations. Why don't I say "you need to understand how acts shows us how the HS works". Are you convinced now? See it doesn't work that way either.

It was only the 12 Apostles present. Read more carefully.

 

[Strong in Him]

I'm not aware of them. Please point them out.

?? I'm talking about "two outpourings" that you keep mentioning.

 

[Dave L]

?? I'm talking about "two outpourings" that you keep mentioning.

One Jewish on the 12 Apostles. And one gentile on Cornelius' household.

 

[Dave L]

Paul wrote letters to the churches he had founded to answer any questions/resolve any problems they had, to address false teachings which he had heard were leading them astray or, as in the case of Romans, he was writing an introductory letter to a church he had not yet visited. Towards the end of his life his scrolls were beginning to be passed around the churches, but he had no idea that they, together with letters from James, Peter, John, the writer of Hebrews and the Gospel writers, would have their writings translated into other languages and bound into a book, together with the OT.

All things have not yet been fulfilled because Jesus has not yet returned again as king.

So scripture is not perfect?

 

[Strong in Him]

It was only the 12 Apostles present. Read more carefully.

If you're talking about Pentecost, Acts of the Apostles 2:1 says they were ALL gathered together in one place. Acts of the Apostles 1:15 says there were about 120 believers at this point.
Peter stood up with the 11 to address the crowd, yes; but how do you know the other 108 believers weren't there also?

 

[rockytopva]

I would teach this....

If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. - Colossians 3:1-2

I would imagine all gifts given from on high unique to the believer. If it is a gift of tongues it will be a unique tongue. If it is a gift of speaking it will be a unique message. The uniqueness is what makes it interesting to look into...

Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into. - 1 Peter 1:12

So many today are going after Masters and Doctorate degrees in religion these days. But if the Spirit of Christ is not speaking through the message it is as boring, dry, and uninteresting of topics as one can endure. The video below is a sister in our church bringing a message in tongues to the church,and it was a unique word! It would have been even more edifying had someone brought an interpretation to the message.

 

[Dave L]

If you're talking about Pentecost, Acts of the Apostles 2:1 says they were ALL gathered together in one place. Acts of the Apostles 1:15 says there were about 120 believers at this point.
Peter stood up with the 11 to address the crowd, yes; but how do you know the other 108 believers weren't there also?

Read it carefully and note two entirely different gatherings, days apart are mentioned in the context.

 

[Strong in Him]

One Jewish on the 12 Apostles. And one gentile on Cornelius' household.

Yes; you keep mentioning these and tell us what you think they mean.
It does not in any way prove that believers today cannot be baptised in the Holy Spirit.